TX winter wx thread: Spring-like pattern

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gboudx
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#881 Postby gboudx » Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:56 am

Our high was forecasted to be around 40 last night, but with clouds moving in, the NWS has revised it downward to 36. That's about 20 degrees below normal.

If we only had some moisture and lift to work with, then we'd be in business. ;)
Last edited by gboudx on Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TX winter weather thread: Colder pattern setting up

#882 Postby Portastorm » Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:57 am

BTW, here's the latest info from Jeff Lindner:

************
Surface cold front pushing off the coast this morning with onset of cold air advection in progress. Upstream temps. have fallen nicely into the upper 20’s and lower 30’s NW of the region with stiff NW winds. Given clouds and cold air advection today…warming will be slight…in fact temps. may continue to fall through about mid morning before recovering some.

Deep Gulf cyclone of yesterday has moved eastward while upper level trough from the Great Lakes to NW Mexico reloads with the next piece of energy. Per IR and WV images lifting processes are already starting with clouds starting to thicken as cold surface dome is overrun by SW flow aloft. Disturbance in the SW flow aloft will move out of N MX tonight and once again force surface low pressure to form along the polar boundary over the NW Gulf. Unlike the last low this current system should form further offshore and have less moisture to work with…however enough moisture looks to be present to produce rains. If that were not enough P-type needs to at least be discussed for the NW 1/3rd of the area tonight.

Clouds will thicken and lower today with light rain/drizzle breaking out this evening as surface low organizes off the coast and good isentopic lift develops over the region. A review of the NAM and GFS forecast soundings along with partial thickness values are marginal for sleet and freezing rain tonight over the NW 1/3rd of the area…roughly from Huntsville to about Brenham. The ETA and GFS forecast soundings for KCLL show about a 2,500 m deep melting layer from about 750mb to the surface…this is too deep for frozen precip. to make it to the ground. However, both models show the potential for wet bulb effect as the precip. starts and the potentail to cool the sounding to near freezing in the 300am to 900am Friday period. Surface dewpoint temps. in the 28-31 range suggest the surface could cool to near or below freezing…with guidance already show a low of 33 at CLL. Given the fairly large above freezing layer still noted in the forecasted sounding for 12Z Friday with the lower part of the sounding getting close to saturation I would have to side against much of an IP threat. The freezing rain potential looks slightly better as I could see the surface temp. falling to or below freezing for a short time…especially given upstream dewpoints in the 10’s this morning at Waco and DFW and already down to 26 at CLL. So we may see a mix of rain/freezing rain/ sleet over the NW 1/3rd of the region tonight. Regardless..QPF amounts are light over this area…below 1/4th of an inch so any icing or IP should not cause any problems. KIAH sounding shows about the same depth of cold air, but are warmer with surface dewpoints above freezing…so all rain for most of the area. Last note…models may be too warm with dewpoints given current readings…while this would support a great wet bulb cooling affect it would also require more moisture to saturate the dry layer near the surface…so while the air might cool enough it may be too dry to support precip.

Upper disturbance and surface NW Gulf cyclone will scoot eastward late Friday with light rains ending. Fairly decent weekend on tap with cold surface high in control…may see freezing temps. Saturday and Sunday mornings before rapid return flow onsets Sunday. Next storm system drops into the SW US and induces pressure falls in the lee of the Rockies while another cold air mass builds over the plains and begins to head southward. Return southerly flow will bring in clouds Sunday and rain chances by Monday. Appears a longer period of southerly surface flow may be on tap (Sun-Tues) allowing surface dewpoints to recover into the 50’s and 60’s. Nosiy sub-tropical flow will bring weak impulses overhead to help lift the moisture and produce waves of showers Mon-Wed next week. Wild card is shallow modified arctic air mass lurking to our NW. Models tend to not handle such shallow air mass very well…uaually keeping them bottled up when SW flow aloft is strong…but many times these air masses undercut and spill southward under their own density. It could be very much colder late Mon-Wed of next week if the shallow cold air mass slips southward into the area.
Last edited by Portastorm on Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TX winter weather thread: Colder pattern setting up

#883 Postby Ed Mahmoud » Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:57 am

CaptinCrunch wrote:Our local weather forecasters missed the low temp this morning by 3 and 7 degrees. They forecasted morning lows of 31 in FTW and 32 in Dallas, it was 24 in FTW and 29 in Dallas, and highs wont get out of the upper 30's today. :cold:

AFD FTW TX

TEMPERATURES WILL BE TRICKY ON TUESDAY MORNING. IN GENERAL HAVE
UNDERCUT MAV/MEX GUIDANCE THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE FORECAST PACKAGE.
FOLLOWING THIS TREND...WILL KEEP BELOW FREEZING TEMPS IN OUR
NORTHWEST TUES MORNING. THIS MAY RESULT IN SOME LIGHT FREEZING
DRIZZLE IN THOSE AREAS. GIVEN THE CURRENT FORECAST
SOUNDINGS /SHALLOW MOISTURE DEPTH/...ACCUMULATIONS OF
SNOW/SLEET/FREEZING RAIN WOULD BE DIFFICULT TO ACHIEVE. CURRENT
THINKING LEANS TOWARD DRIZZLE/FREEZING DRIZZLE SO WILL OPT TO REMOVE
MENTION OF WINTRY PRECIP FOR NOW. WILL CONTINUE TO MONITOR AND MAY
HAVE TO REINTRODUCE FROZEN PRECIP IF MODELS BECOME MORE BULLISH WITH
MOISTURE DEPTH.



I'll have to watch that. I am planning on driving from HOU to SPS to supervise a well logging and possible recompletion in Wichita County. Amazing what just 350 miles distance from the Gulf will do. They get winter every year.
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Re: TX winter weather thread: Colder pattern setting up

#884 Postby pwrdog » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:03 am

What has happened?????????????

The Houston NWS has dropped our low's tonight from 39 to 33 and friday night from 38 to 30????? Rain or sleet pellets now in the forecast...

What changed that much from 10 pm last night???

I can't recall of a winter where they missed the forecasted temps more than this winter inside 24 to 36 hours...

BTW... my dew point and temp are rapidly falling under cloudy skies... Dew point from 43 to 27 in the last three hours.. Temp from 46 to 37 in the same time frame...

This really sounds like a blow forecast to me... I'm pretty sure it won't be getting 53 degrees today?
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Re: TX winter weather thread: Colder pattern setting up

#885 Postby CaptinCrunch » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:19 am

pwrdog wrote:What has happened?????????????

The Houston NWS has dropped our low's tonight from 39 to 33 and friday night from 38 to 30????? Rain or sleet pellets now in the forecast...

What changed that much from 10 pm last night???

I can't recall of a winter where they missed the forecasted temps more than this winter inside 24 to 36 hours...

BTW... my dew point and temp are rapidly falling under mostly cloudy skies... Dew point from 43 to 27 in the last three hours.. Temp from 46 to 37 in the same time frame...

This really sounds like a blow forecast to me...


It' so dry around here that even with the 24 degree temp there was NO, 0, notta, frost on anything this morning, just cold dry air!
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Re: TX winter weather thread: Colder pattern setting up

#886 Postby Portastorm » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:19 am

pwrdog wrote:What has happened?????????????

The Houston NWS has dropped our low's tonight from 39 to 33 and friday night from 38 to 30????? Rain or sleet pellets now in the forecast...

What changed that much from 10 pm last night???

I can't recall of a winter where they missed the forecasted temps more than this winter inside 24 to 36 hours...

BTW... my dew point and temp are rapidly falling under mostly cloudy skies... Dew point from 43 to 27 in the last three hours.. Temp from 46 to 37 in the same time frame...

This really sounds like a blow forecast to me...


It IS a blown forecast. The GFS operational runs are clueless at the moment!
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Re: TX winter weather thread: Colder pattern setting up

#887 Postby pwrdog » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:24 am

CaptinCrunch wrote:
pwrdog wrote:What has happened?????????????

The Houston NWS has dropped our low's tonight from 39 to 33 and friday night from 38 to 30????? Rain or sleet pellets now in the forecast...

What changed that much from 10 pm last night???

I can't recall of a winter where they missed the forecasted temps more than this winter inside 24 to 36 hours...

BTW... my dew point and temp are rapidly falling under mostly cloudy skies... Dew point from 43 to 27 in the last three hours.. Temp from 46 to 37 in the same time frame...

This really sounds like a blow forecast to me...


It' so dry around here that even with the 24 degree temp there was NO, 0, notta, frost on anything this morning, just cold dry air!



We might just be getting some winter weather if that low out in the gulf get's it's act together..???
If it stays couldy and the temps stay in the mid 30's (36 now) and dew points keep dropping rapidly the wet bulb around my parts will be below freezing once or if the rain kicks in..

Evaporative cooling could get very interesting from West Houston towards Jasper and north...

College station has fallen to 23 dew point and La Grange is down to 24... And 20 in San Antonio.. yikes! :double:
Last edited by pwrdog on Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:32 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: TX winter weather thread: Colder pattern setting up

#888 Postby CaptinCrunch » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:26 am

.NOW...
...REGIONAL WEATHER DISCUSSION...
...LIGHT SNOW THIS MORNING ACROSS PARTS OF NORTH TEXAS...

AT 9 AM...A BAND OF MOSTLY LIGHT SNOW EXTENDED FROM NEAR SNYDER
TEXAS...NORTHEASTWARD TO GUTHRIE...ASPERMONT...BENJAMIN...HASKELL...
SEYMOUR...THROCKMORTON...AND OLNEY. MOST OF THE SNOW WAS LIGHT...BUT
WITH THE VERY COLD TEMPERATURES...A DUSTING OF SNOW WAS ACCUMULATING
ON SOME OF THE ROADWAYS.

SATELLITE IMAGERY AND WIND PROFILERS SHOWED A MID LEVEL TROUGH OVER
THE TEXAS PANHANDLE...WITH THE SNOW FORMING IN THE 6 TO 9 THOUSAND
FOOT LAYER ABOVE GROUND WHERE LIFT WAS OCCURRING. WITH THE AIR BELOW
THE CLOUDS VERY DRY...ONLY A PORTION OF THE SNOW WAS ACTUALLY
REACHING THE GROUND. NUMERICAL MODEL GUIDANCE SUGGESTS THE BAND OF
SNOW MAY WEAKEN THROUGHOUT THE MORNING AS IT REDEVELOPS TOWARD THE
NORTHEAST...POSSIBLY INTO PARTS OF SOUTH CENTRAL AND SOUTHEASTERN
OKLAHOMA BY LUNCH-TIME. THE MOST LIKELY AREA TO BE AFFECTED BY ANY
SNOW ACCUMULATIONS...WITH AMOUNTS LESS THAN ONE HALF INCH...WILL BE
ACROSS SOUTHERN PORTIONS OF KNOX...BAYLOR...ARCHER...AND CLAY
COUNTIES.

COLD AND SOMEWHAT BRISK CONDITIONS PREVAILED ACROSS THE REMAINDER OF
THE AREA THIS MORNING....WITH TEMPERATURES RANGING FROM NEAR 10
DEGREES NEAR WOODWARD...AND THE MIDDLE 20S ACROSS THE RED RIVER
VALLEY. NORTHWEST WINDS AVERAGING 5 TO 15 MPH WERE ALSO RESULTING IN
WIND CHILL VALUES BETWEEN ZERO AND 15 DEGREES.



.UPDATE...
1130 AM

VERY LIGHT SNOW REPORTED YOUNG COUNTY...HAVE ADDED A SWATH OF VERY
BRIEF FLURRIES TO THE FAR NORTH AND NORTHWEST FOR THIS AFTERNOON. NO
ACCUMULATION...NO IMPACTS TO TRAFFIC...JUST A FEW FLAKES.
Last edited by CaptinCrunch on Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#889 Postby Extremeweatherguy » Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:02 am

dewpoints are now below freezing all the way to parts of NW of Houston. If they continue to fall, then I definitely wouldn't be surprised to see the rain/sleet mix line extended southward, perhaps even to my area. Things could get very interesting!
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Re: TX winter weather thread: Colder pattern setting up

#890 Postby Johnny » Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:16 am

Well if GFS underestimated this cold front (which it obviously did) then we really need to keep an eye on the arctic air that will be coming down next week.
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Re:

#891 Postby pwrdog » Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:20 am

Extremeweatherguy wrote:dewpoints are now below freezing all the way to parts of NW of Houston. If they continue to fall, then I definitely wouldn't be surprised to see the rain/sleet mix line extended southward, perhaps even to my area. Things could get very interesting!
I don't see what will keep the dew points north and west of IAH from dropping to maybe 29 or lower?

It also looks like I see a little twist in the southern jet over northwestern old mexico? That would make everything much more interesting..
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Re:

#892 Postby pwrdog » Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:21 am

NA
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Re: TX winter weather thread: Colder pattern setting up

#893 Postby Portastorm » Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:55 am

The Austin/San Antonio NWSFO just revised projected highs for today down into the lower 40s for our metro area. Earlier this morning they were predicting upper 40s. No surprise. With sun shining, we've only climbed several degrees downtown into the mid 30s ... we have a stratus deck approaching from the west and south ... and temps further north and northwest are near 30 and upper 20s.

Update: My local office just issued their forecast discussion. They're a bit more bullish on the sleet chances for tonight based on 12z data but still think it's a nominal event at best.

AREA FORECAST DISCUSSION...UPDATED
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE AUSTIN/SAN ANTONIO TX
1054 AM CST THU JAN 17 2008

.UPDATE...
UPDATED FORECAST TO DECREASE TODAY`S FORECAST MAX TEMPS BY 2-6
DEGREES BASED ON LATEST OBS...CLOUDY OR MOSTLY CLOUDY SKIES AND
COLD AIR ADVECTION CONTINUING. STILL REVIEWING 12Z MODEL DATA
CONCERNING THE PROBABILITY OF FREEZING OR FROZEN PRECIPITATION
TONIGHT AND FRIDAY MORNING. 12Z NAM AND GFS MODEL SOUNDINGS FOR
FOR THE NORTHEAST QUARTER OF OUR AREA (INCLUDING AUSTIN) SHOW
RAIN...POSSIBLY MIXING WITH OR TURNING OVER TO SLEET BETWEEN
MIDNIGHT AND SUNRISE...THEN CONTINUING INTO LATE MORNING BEFORE
ENDING OR TURNING BACK TO RAIN. AT THIS TIME...PRECIPITATION IS
FORECAST TO BE VERY LIGHT WITH TEMPERATURES GENERALLY ABOVE
FREEZING...SO NO SIGNIFICANT SLEET ACCUMULATION IS EXPECTED.
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Re: TX winter weather thread: Colder pattern setting up

#894 Postby pwrdog » Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:41 pm

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE HOUSTON/GALVESTON TX
1001 AM CST THU JAN 17 2008

.UPDATE...
COLD FRONT CONTINUES TO PUSH THROUGH SE TX WITH COLDER AIR
LAGGING A BIT BEHIND THE FRONT. COLD ADVECTION THROUGH THE DAY
COMBINED WITH MOSTLY CLOUDY SKIES WILL KEEP TEMPS FROM WARMING
TOO MUCH. TEMPS ARE NOT EXPECTED TO GET OUT OF THE 40S MAINLY
NORTH OF A LIVINGSTON TO SEALY LINE. TEMPS IN THE LOW TO MID 50S
WILL BE EXPECTED MAINLY SOUTH OF I-10. FORECAST UPDATE SHOULD BE
OUT WITH NEW TEMP FORECAST FOR TODAY AS WELL AS SKY COVER.
SUSPECT THERE WILL BE A FEW CHANGES TO THE FORECAST

THIS HAZARDOUS WEATHER OUTLOOK IS FOR PORTIONS OF SOUTHEAST TEXAS.

.DAY ONE...TODAY AND TONIGHT

A DEVELOPING STORM SYSTEM IN THE WESTERN GULF OF MEXICO WILL
PROVIDE RAIN CHANCES TO SOUTHEAST TEXAS BEGINNING LATER TONIGHT.
BECAUSE OF THE COLD AIRMASS IN PLACE...THERE IS A CHANCE THE
PRECIPITATION WILL BEGIN AFTER MIDNIGHT AS A MIX OF SLEET AND
RAIN ALONG AND NORTH OF A LINE FROM CALDWELL TO COLLEGE STATION TO
MADISONVILLE TO CROCKETT. THE OVERNIGHT LOW TEMPERATURES MAY DROP
CLOSE TO FREEZING AND ANY PRECIPITATION THAN DOES FALL MAY FREEZE
ON ELEVATED SURFACES... ROADWAYS...AND BRIDGES.
ANY SLEET MIXED WITH RAIN THAT OCCURS ACROSS THE CALDWELL...
COLLEGE STATION...MADISONVILLE...AND CROCKETT AREAS IS EXPECTED TO
END BY MID MORNING.
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Re:

#895 Postby southerngale » Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:48 pm

southerngale wrote:Woohoo.... I'm so excited! MSN forecast says snow showers for Beaumont next week. I believe it, too! :lol:

Thursday
Jan 24 Snow Showers

ImageSnow Showers
Hi: 30° Lo: 26°

Cloudy with snow showers. High 30F and low 26F.
Precip chance 55%

http://weather.msn.com/tenday.aspx?wealocations=wc:USTX0089



Oh my, I'm shocked. It's changed and snow is no longer expected. Can you believe that?

Thursday
Jan 24 Rain

Image Rain
Hi: 50° Lo: 36°

Rain. High 50F and low 36F.
Precip chance 95%


What am I supposed to do with all the snow gear I just ordered?
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Re: Re:

#896 Postby gboudx » Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:50 pm

southerngale wrote:What am I supposed to do with all the snow gear I just ordered?


Keep it. The long-range GFS is sure to spin up another SETX blizzard. Maybe one day, that blind squirrel with catch that nut. ;)
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#897 Postby gboudx » Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:01 pm

I was just outside and there was some very light snow flurries. A batch of snow has been moving east from west Texas all morning. It was dissipating, but apparently held together long enough to produce flurries here. I hope this is just a precursor to some more surprise snow, because we don't have it in the forecast.
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Re: TX winter weather thread: Colder pattern setting up

#898 Postby jasons2k » Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:31 pm

gboudx - if it's any consolation, when I lived in the Metroplex, it usually snowed when it wasn't in the forecast, and if there was a snow advisory we got nothing.
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#899 Postby gboudx » Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:34 pm

Oh I know. I've experienced that myself in the 12 years I've lived here. Forecast might call for 1-2" of snow and you get 0.5" of rain. Forecast calls for nothing, you get sleet or snow. Must be a nightmare to forecast.
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Re:

#900 Postby CaptinCrunch » Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:40 pm

gboudx wrote:Oh I know. I've experienced that myself in the 12 years I've lived here. Forecast might call for 1-2" of snow and you get 0.5" of rain. Forecast calls for nothing, you get sleet or snow. Must be a nightmare to forecast.


116 PM CST THU JAN 17 2008

.NOW...
LIGHT SNOW FLURRIES WILL BE POSSIBLE THIS AFTERNOON...MAINLY OVER
NORTHERN TARRANT AND DALLAS COUNTIES AND SOUTHERN DENTON AND COLLIN
COUNTIES. NO SIGNIFICANT ACCUMULATIONS ARE EXPECTED.


This Afternoon: A 10 percent chance of light snow. Mostly cloudy, with a high near 35. North northwest wind between 5 and 10 mph.
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