Retirement Names - Dorian, Fernand, Nestor

[Cyclone1]

Ok, so what about Felix?

[HurricaneRobert]

So is that an offical retirement now? Dean and Noel are done?

Dean would be retired for making a category 5 landfall.

In the past, WMO has rejected some retirement requests for some reason.

[Derek Ortt]

no... Dean would be retired for the effects on France

It did not come close to doing enough to Mexico to warrant retirement

[HurricaneRobert]

no... Dean would be retired for the effects on France

It did not come close to doing enough to Mexico to warrant retirement

What is the threshold for retirement? I really don't see any consistency among the retirees. That's why I wish they would do away with the lists, because they are supposed to give names to historical events. Most, obviously are not, but it also confuses the public when they continue to use deadly or damaging names over and over. We've had two Allisons hit almost the exact same place. That's just incredibly stupid. This system is actually worse than naming them after the feast days of saints.

They should draw up a brand new list every year. 26 names from all 26 members.

[Andrew92]

Wait a second....I'm confused by the posts going on here. People on here are saying that it's Dean and Noel that will be retired, but the report clearly indicates Felix and Noel.

-Andrew92

[wxman57]

Wait a second....I'm confused by the posts going on here. People on here are saying that it's Dean and Noel that will be retired, but the report clearly indicates Felix and Noel.

-Andrew92

That report was submitted by France to detail damage to their interests from Dean and Noel. As far as I can see, the damage was consistent with just about any hurricane landfall anywhere. Dean caused no deaths in Martinique, but a number of homes were destroyed.

Question is, does the destruction of 1500 poorly-built homes warrant retirement of a name? I'm not sure what the guidelines for retirement are. It used to be that only particularly devastating landfalling hurricanes were retired - those that caused massive loss of life and property (Katrina, for example). Those hurricanes' names would be forever etched in our minds and should not be re-used. Now the retirement process seems to be more political.

[Buck]

The report includes France's suggestions for the possibly retired French names... Felix and Noel. It suggests that Dean and Noel be retired due to their impacts on French territory. But since Dean is not a French name, it can't suggest a replacement name.

I think we will now definitely see Dean, Felix and Noel retired. Let's be realistic... All of these storms have easily done enough somewhere to be retired. We can't think "not enough loss of life or monetary damages" by a universal scale. It's not going to take as much to devastate Martinique as it will Mexico or the US.

[Derek Ortt]

It's not going to take as much to devastate Martinique as it will Mexico

Martinique is part of France and has FAR BETTER construction and standards of living than does Mexico. It is not some third world country, it is a part of a first world state

The fact that only 1500 homes were destroyed is a testament to their construction standards

[Andrew92]

Ah. Thanks Wxman57.

[CrazyC83]

The article mentions two French names to be retired and Meteo-France is making the case for Haiti/Dominican Republic (Noel) and Nicaragua (Felix). Dean is not a French name, so I am guessing that it will be retired by Jamaica. I can't see Dean staying on the list in 2013.

[HURAKAN]

According to Wikipedia:

Dean: 32 deaths, $6.6 billions in damage. Link for damage: http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/in ... /82848.htm

Felix: 130 deaths, $50.34 millions in damage

Noel: 163 deaths, $580 millions in damage

[Buck]

It's not going to take as much to devastate Martinique as it will Mexico

Martinique is part of France and has FAR BETTER construction and standards of living than does Mexico. It is not some third world country, it is a part of a first world state

The fact that only 1500 homes were destroyed is a testament to their construction standards

I'm completely aware of this fact. But 1500 homes destroyed has a MUCH greater impact on Martinique than 1500 homes destroyed does in Mexico.

[CrazyC83]

So is that an offical retirement now? Dean and Noel are done?

Dean would be retired for making a category 5 landfall.

That wasn't enough to get Edith retired...although she was nowhere near 905mb (officially 943mb, probably around 933mb in reality - high for the intensity due to the small size and low latitude). The four Cat 5's not retired were all officially 140 kt as well.

[Calasanjy]

I think that all retirement requests from all countries should be honored by the WMO - the question is why shouldn't they be? I am also of the opinion that at least the names of all tropical cyclones attaining Category 5 status or 1-minute MSW of greater than 135 KPH or 155 MPH should be retired in all basins regardless of whether they cause damage, purely for academic and record keeping purposes. However -

They should draw up a brand new list every year. 26 names from all 26 members.

This would be the ideal solution to the retirement issue. The TC naming processes in all basins have become overly politicized. While it still has political influences, the Southwest Indian Ocean naming system is the best in this regard.

Honestly, how much effort does it take to create a list of 26 names? I'm certain most of us could create a reasonable and diverse list in less than 30 minutes' time. Potentially they could orchestrate it like the German meteorological service names high and low pressure areas in Europe - by soliciting names from each country's general population and choosing the most commonly requested names (excluding any vulgarity or product brand names). A computer program could also generate a suitable list just as easily.

[RL3AO]

I also think they should have a set list of extra names to replace the Greek alphabet. Then always use that list when we get to storm number 22. Should a name from that list need retired, you can do it. What is a 882 mb cat 5 Hurricane Alpha hit Mexico and Florida? Would they retire Alpha?

[HURAKAN]

I also think they should have a set list of extra names to replace the Greek alphabet. Then always use that list when we get to storm number 22. Should a name from that list need retired, you can do it. What is a 882 mb cat 5 Hurricane Alpha hit Mexico and Florida? Would they retire Alpha?

I like the Greek letters as names. We almost never get to them and if one has to be retired, then just omit it when it has to be used again. We will never use the entire Greek alphabet.

[zaqxsw75050]

i think they should just use the system like in west pacific. v and w names you don't see them in action too often. i bet they retired more a names than the0 w names that were used.

[HurricaneBill]

I also think they should have a set list of extra names to replace the Greek alphabet. Then always use that list when we get to storm number 22. Should a name from that list need retired, you can do it. What is a 882 mb cat 5 Hurricane Alpha hit Mexico and Florida? Would they retire Alpha?

What they would do is this:

Let's say Hurricane Beta in 2005 struck Nicaragua as a Category 4 and was a devastating storm like Joan in 1988.

Beta would not be removed from the list. However, Beta would appear on the list of retired names with an asterisk to indicate that it would have been retired if it was a regular name.

[Cryomaniac]

What they would do is this:

Let's say Hurricane Beta in 2005 struck Nicaragua as a Category 4 and was a devastating storm like Joan in 1988.

Beta would not be removed from the list. However, Beta would appear on the list of retired names with an asterisk to indicate that it would have been retired if it was a regular name.

That would make a lot of sense.

[100feettstormsurge]

How about using our current lists followed by:
An auxiliary list that would be used each year and not rotate. It would have 10 names beginning with A,E,R,S, and T, very common English letters, and then Q,U,X,Y, and Z.
After the 31st storm, the Greek alphabet would be used if ever. Then if something like Wilma (which should've been Alpha) ever happens again, the name could easily be retired and replaced.