Why Wiki may not be reliable on c'versial subjects

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Ed Mahmoud

Why Wiki may not be reliable on c'versial subjects

#1 Postby Ed Mahmoud » Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:15 am

Wikipedia's zealots


This concerns global warming, which is a concern on this board, but I imagine almost any controversial subject might also receive this treatment.

NB: The writer obviously has staked out a position on AGW, may have an axe to grind, and I haven't read enough pro or con to have a firm position, other than to have some suspicions on the veracity of AGW. Not quite a 'denier' (nice word, with the suggestion of whack jobs like Holocaust deniers), but a skeptic. But when something gets as heated as this, I start wondering about both sides.

The Wikipedia page is entitled Naomi Oreskes, after a professor of history and science studies at the University of California San Diego, but the page offers only sketchy details about Oreskes. The page is mostly devoted to a notorious 2004 paper that she wrote, and that Science journal published, called “Beyond the Ivory Tower: The Scientific Consensus on Climate Change.” This paper analyzed articles in peer-reviewed journals to see if any disagreed with the alarming positions on global warming taken by the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. “Remarkably, none of the papers disagreed with the consensus position,” Oreskes concluded.

Oreskes’s paper—which claimed to comprehensively examine all articles in a scientific database with the keywords “climate change”—is nonsense. As FP readers know, for the last 18 months I have been profiling scientists who disagree with the UN panel’s position. My Deniers series, which now runs to some 40 columns, describes many of the world’s most prominent scientists. They include authors or reviewers for the UN panel (before they quit in disgust). They even include the scientist known as the father of scientific climatology, who is recognized as being the most cited climatologist in the world. Yet somehow Oreskes missed every last one of these exceptions to the presumed consensus, and somehow so did the peer reviewers that Science chose to evaluate Oreskes’s work.

When Oreskes’s paper came out, it was immediately challenged by science writers and scientists alike, one of them being Benny Peiser, a prominent U.K. scientist and publisher of CCNet, an electronic newsletter to which I and thousands of others subscribe. CCNet daily circulates articles disputing the conventional wisdom on climate change. No publication better informs readers about climate-change controversies, and no person is better placed to judge informed dissent on climate change than Benny Peiser.

For this reason, when visiting Oreskes’s page on Wikipedia several weeks ago, I was surprised to read not only that Oreskes had been vindicated but that Peiser had been discredited. More than that, the page portrayed Peiser himself as having grudgingly conceded Oreskes’s correctness.

Upon checking with Peiser, I found he had done no such thing. The Wikipedia page had misunderstood or distorted his comments. I then exercised the right to edit Wikipedia that we all have, corrected the Wikipedia entry, and advised Peiser that I had done so.

Peiser wrote back saying he couldn’t see my corrections on the Wikipedia page. Had I neglected to save them

after editing them, I wondered. I made the changes again, and this time confirmed that the changes had been saved. But then, in a twinkle, they were gone again! I made other changes. And others. They all disappeared shortly after they were made.

Nonplused, I investigated. Wikipedia logs all changes. I found mine. And then I found Tabletop’s. Someone called Tabletop was undoing my edits, and, following what I suppose is Wikietiquette, also explained why. “Note that Peiser has retracted this critique and admits that he was wrong!” Tabletop said.

I undid Tabletop’s undoing of my edits, thinking I had an unassailable response: “Tabletop’s changes claim to represent Peiser’s views. I have checked with Peiser and he disputes Tabletop’s version.”

Tabletop undid my undid, claiming I could not speak for Peiser.

Why can Tabletop speak for Peiser but not I, who have his permission?, I thought. I redid Tabletop’s undid and protested: “Tabletop is distorting Peiser. She does not speak for him. Peiser has approved my description of events concerning him.”

Tabletop parried: “We have a reliable source to this. What Peiser has said to *you* is irrelevant.”

Tabletop, it turns out, has another name: Kim Dabelstein Petersen. She (or he?) is an editor at Wikipedia. What does she edit? Reams and reams of global warming pages. I started checking them. In every instance I checked, she defended those warning of catastrophe and deprecated those who believe the science is not settled. I investigated further. Others had tried to correct her interpretations and had the same experience as I—no sooner did they make their corrections than she pounced, preventing Wikipedia readers from reading anyone’s views but her own. When they protested plaintively, she wore them down and snuffed them out.

By patrolling Wikipedia pages and ensuring that her spin reigns supreme over all climate change pages, she has made of Wikipedia a propaganda vehicle for global warming alarmists. But unlike government propaganda, its source is not self-evident. We don’t suspend belief when we read Wikipedia, as we do when we read literature from an organization with an agenda, because Wikipedia benefits from the Internet’s cachet of making information free and democratic. This Big Brother enforces its views with a mouse.

While I’ve been writing this column, the Naomi Oreskes page has changed 10 times. Since I first tried to correct the distortions on the page, it has changed 28 times. If you have read a climate change article on Wikipedia—or on any controversial subject that may have its own Kim Dabelstein Petersen—beware. Wikipedia is in the hands of the zealots.
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#2 Postby CajunMama » Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:17 pm

Anyone can post on wiki whether it actual facts or not. And i believe you can edit articles that you didn't write.
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#3 Postby x-y-no » Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:36 pm

Anyone can view the change logs on Wikipedia. Of course it's true that most people don't bother.

But I do think everyone ought to at least be aware that it's not an authoritative site about anything. I'll often use it to get a starting point for looking at an issue, but I never, ever rely on it.
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#4 Postby x-y-no » Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:13 pm

By the way, here is a discussion of Peiser's "refutation" of Oreskes' work, including abstracts of the 34 papers he claims question the consensus of AGW.

Judge for yourselves, but most of them don't appear to do anything of the kind as far as I can see.


EDIT: Also notable:

There are a couple that do indeed reject the notion of human caused climate change, why did Oreskes ignore those? Well, it turns out that these are editorials or letters and not peer reviewed papers and should not have been included except that Peiser altered the search criteria. Peiser included "all documents" in the ISI Web of Science database rather than just scientific articles, what Oreskes did, and whereas Oreskes searched only "Sciences", Peiser included "Social Sciences" and "Arts & Humanities".
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#5 Postby Tampa Bay Hurricane » Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:32 pm

Be careful with wikipedia. It can have some odd perspectives that
don't always fit the facts. I didn't read the AGW article
but Wiki is not very reliable in general.
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#6 Postby Cyclone1 » Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:22 pm

Wikipedia is heavily moderated. Any uncited edits usually gets reverted within a few days, more than likely within that very day. I used to be a poster on the WPTC (Wiki-Porject: Tropical Cyclones) in a past life, and there are plenty of adminastrators and just sensible editors who will fix any incorrect information.
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#7 Postby RL3AO » Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:29 pm

Plus any article on a controversial subject would be the best to use for info as it is watched by so many people who revert any bad edits.
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#8 Postby Cyclenall » Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:53 pm

Controversial subject articles should have multiple viewpoints anyways.
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Re: Why Wiki may not be reliable on c'versial subjects

#9 Postby Ptarmigan » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:40 pm

I use Wiki for pop culture and technology. It does a great job at that.
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Re: Why Wiki may not be reliable on c'versial subjects

#10 Postby Brent » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:57 pm

Ptarmigan wrote:I use Wiki for pop culture and technology. It does a great job at that.


:uarrow:

I love Wikipedia for stuff like that.
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#11 Postby Tampa Bay Hurricane » Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:01 pm

Well at least it is moderated. It isn't science peer reviewed material, but
some moderation is better than none I guess.
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#12 Postby gtalum » Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:05 am

Wikipedia is not an authoritative source, whether the subject is controversial or not. It is a great place for general knowledge, and a good starting place to find good authoritative sources. One thing I find alarming is kids citing wikipedia as a source in research projects and teachers accepting that.
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Derek Ortt

#13 Postby Derek Ortt » Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:45 pm

Wikipedia is not a reliable source... but it is a good starting point for many issues

That siad, if I were a teacher... anyone who cites Wikipedia would be getting a C- at the highest (and only if I were in a good mood)
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Re:

#14 Postby Cryomaniac » Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:34 pm

Derek Ortt wrote:Wikipedia is not a reliable source... but it is a good starting point for many issues

That siad, if I were a teacher... anyone who cites Wikipedia would be getting a C- at the highest (and only if I were in a good mood)


I agree. Wikipedia is useful, but not for serious research. If I was teaching, I'd allow the citing of wikipedia, as long as it wasn't the only reference.
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Re: Why Wiki may not be reliable on c'versial subjects

#15 Postby Ptarmigan » Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:11 pm

Wikipedia is good place to start, but I would never use it for citing in a school paper. I had a class where a student was caught plagiarizing by copying an entire Wikipedia entry and got kicked out for it.
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Re: Why Wiki may not be reliable on c'versial subjects

#16 Postby senorpepr » Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:57 pm

Ptarmigan wrote:Wikipedia is good place to start, but I would never use it for citing in a school paper. I had a class where a student was caught plagiarizing by copying an entire Wikipedia entry and got kicked out for it.


I'm with you on Wiki being a good place to start. Personally, I'm don't think Wikipedia articles should be used for citing in papers, but rather, using the sources that the Wiki article cited.

Utilizing those citations, where appropriate, shouldn't been an issue.
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Re:

#17 Postby Cyclone1 » Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:58 pm

Derek Ortt wrote:Wikipedia is not a reliable source... but it is a good starting point for many issues

That siad, if I were a teacher... anyone who cites Wikipedia would be getting a C- at the highest (and only if I were in a good mood)


Most article on wikipedia have unbiased, valid resources THEY used to make the article linked right on the page. I just go to the subject i want to research and use those links. :wink:

EDIT: Nice timing senor. :ggreen:
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