Caucusus: Ceasefire signed, Georgia claims bridge blown up

[Chacor]

Putin accuses Georgia of genocide

Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin has accused Georgia of genocide against the South Ossetian people, as fighting in the breakaway region intensified.

He said Georgia was seeking "bloody adventures" and defended Moscow's military action to intervene directly.

Diplomatic efforts are being stepped up to try to halt what Tbilisi has called an "annihilation" of its democracy.

Georgia's President Mikhail Saakashvili earlier called for an immediate ceasefire to stop "this madness".

In the absence of independent verification, there are conflicting figures about the casualties suffered on both sides but the numbers appeared to rise sharply on Saturday.

Based on Russian and South Ossetian estimates, the death toll on the South Ossetian side was at least 1,400. According to Moscow, all but a few of the dead were civilians.

Georgian casualty figures sustained during the three days of fighting ranged from 82 dead, including 37 civilians, to a figure of around 130 dead.

Mr Putin flew to the Russian city of Vladikavkaz, close to the border with South Ossetia, where he met those who had fled the violence.

Mr Putin said Georgia was committing "complete genocide".

He said the territorial integrity of Georgia had "suffered a fatal blow", suggesting that it was unlikely that South Ossetia would re-integrate with the rest of Georgia after the conflict.

He said the conflict had created at least 34,000 refugees.

This figure wildly conflicts with that cited by the UN refugee agency, which it says is based on information supplied by both sides.

The UN estimates that about 2,400 people have fled South Ossetia to other parts of Georgia while between 4,000 and 5,000 have crossed the border into Russia.

As the bloodshed continues, a joint delegation of the US, EU and the Organisation of Security and Co-operation in Europe is heading to Georgia in the hope of brokering a truce.

It comes as a third emergency session of the UN Security Council ended without an agreement on the wording of a statement calling for a ceasefire.

But emissaries from the US and Europe who are Nato members may not be seen as honest brokers by the Kremlin when it comes to Georgia, BBC's diplomatic correspondent Bridget Kendall says.

The danger now is that Russia will not only use this crisis to demonstrate its military power in the region, but argue it is time to redraw the map, she adds.

Moscow has said there can be no "consultations" with Georgia unless Georgian forces withdraw to the positions they held outside South Ossetia before Thursday.

Meanwhile Russian jets have bombed several towns, including the central Georgian city of Gori, where Georgian troops had been massing to support forces engaged in South Ossetia.

Georgian TV has also shown pictures of damage to the Black Sea port of Poti, the site of a major oil shipment facility, after a reported Russian air strike.

President Saakashvili told the BBC on Saturday that Moscow wanted to take control of energy routes to Europe and accused it of "war crimes" against civilians.

His parliament has approved a presidential decree declaring that the country is in a state of war for 15 days.

[Derek Ortt]

FYI, this has been brewing for a few months at least. The big surprise is the use of air power.
My question is, what natural resource is Russia after? If this was just over some people wanting to be Russian, there is no way it would get to this point. There has to be something there. Minerals, access to shipping routes, more oil....

Kosovo War? We went much farther than Russia is going over a nearly identical issue. (one could say that we had less of a right to be involved there, as Russia is protecting some of its citizens, while we were fighting for our interests). We also killed several thousand civilians and smashed an entire country.

I supported what we did in Kosovo. Therefore, to be consistent (unless new information becomes available), I support Russia here

[Ptarmigan]

What you are seeing is Putinism as work-although not Prez, Vlad the Impaler is calling the shots. He wants his version of the USSR. The Cold War is back and this time WE are on the losing side.

Steve

Putin was a KGB agent. That boyish look of his masks an iron fisted dictator.

[Chacor]

If this report is true, it's time to see whether Russia will uphold its promises to cease hostilities once Georgia withdraws to positions held prior to the conflict, or whether as the last paragraph says this is just the beginning of a more widespread Russian-led attack on Georgia.

Georgia 'pulls out of S Ossetia'

Georgia says its forces have withdrawn from the separatist region of South Ossetia to positions at or south of those held when hostilities began.

An interior ministry spokesman told the BBC that Russian troops had not entered Georgia from South Ossetia, but added that fighting was continuing.

Georgia says Russia has brought an additional 10,000 soldiers across its frontiers, readying for a dawn raid.

Earlier, Russian jets bombed a military airfield close to the Georgian capital.

There was no independent confirmation of the attack, although the BBC's Gabriel Gatehouse, who is in Tbilisi, said he had heard a loud explosion about the same time.

Our correspondent says that the reported withdrawal to positions held on 6 August appears to indicate that hostilities are taking place across the border between Georgia and South Ossetia.

[Aslkahuna]

Vlad the Impaler was not just a KGB agent he was HEAD of the KGB at one time and once KGB always KGB. He's probably lucky he's out of China now because he'd be getting his behind cored by the Chinese who are most likely EXTREMELY incensed at the Russians spoiling their day.

Steve

[Chacor]

Officials: Russia warns of push into Georgia

TBILISI, Georgia (CNN) -- Russian troops have warned they intend to push further into western Georgia, Georgian officials claimed Sunday as an increasingly violent territorial dispute in the former Soviet state threatened to spiral into a major international conflict.

The apparent move came after Georgian troops began withdrawing from South Ossetia, a breakaway region where military action by Tbilisi last week triggered a full scale military clash with Russia that some say has left hundreds dead.

Russia's military action -- which Moscow claims is a legitimate peacekeeping mission in response to Georgian aggression -- has provoked criticism from the U.S., which Sunday condemned it as "disproportionate."

Growing concerns over the conflict have threatened to spill over Georgia's borders with Ukraine Sunday saying it might ban Russia's fleet from Crimea bases after it mobilized off the coast of Abkhazia, another breakaway region.

Analysts say Russia is trying to assert its authority in the former Soviet Union territories, where it claims many people have greater allegiance to Moscow than to Western-leaning Tbilisi, a U.S. ally vying for NATO membership.

Violence has escalated over several days with claims of war planes shot down on either side and accusations of civilian casualties in bombing raids. Russia has claimed up to 2,000 people have died. Georgia puts the figure much lower.

As Russian troops took control in South Ossetia, the breakaway province where long-running tensions exploded into conflict last Thursday, the dispute threatened to open up on a second front Sunday.

Georgian Interior Ministry spokesman Shota Utiashvili said Russian forces plan to move into the city of Zugdidi, which is beyond the border of the second Georgian restive province of Abkhazia.

White House Deputy National Security Advisor Jim Jeffrey said the United States was urgently looking into the report, saying that it would be a very serious escalation for Russia to move into Georgia beyond the Abkhazia region.

Jeffrey, speaking to reporters in Beijing Sunday, said Russia's failure to end its "disproportionate" action against Georgia could have a "significant long term impact on U.S.-Russian relations."

Georgian troops meanwhile withdrew from the South Ossetia capital Tskhinvali to the positions they held before Thursday -- a move Georgian officials said was to encourage a cease-fire.

The official said about 200 Georgian soldiers and 37 Georgian civilians have died so far in Russia attacks.

The withdrawal comes after Russian forces launched an airstrike against a military airfield near the Tbilisi International Airport earlier in the day, Georgian officials told CNN.

The attack near the Georgian capital city came after intense fighting in the former Soviet republic, with dozens of Russian warplanes bombing civilian and military targets in Georgia on Saturday.

Alexander Lomaia, secretary of Georgia's National Security Council, said dozens of Georgian troops had lost their lives.

The situation in South Ossetia escalated rapidly from Thursday, when Georgia said it launched an operation into the region after its unilateral cease-fire was met with artillery fire from separatists that killed 10 people, including peacekeepers and civilians. It accused Russia of backing the separatists.

President George Bush, speaking from Beijing where he is attending the Olympic Games, called for an immediate halt to the violence, a stand-down by all troops and an end to the Russian bombings. He urged the sides to return to "the status quo of August the 6th."

A White House spokesman said Bush spoke to Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili and Russian President Dmitry Medvedev on Saturday.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy, who spoke to Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin at the Olympic opening ceremonies, also called for both sides to stand down and for "the full respect of Georgia's sovereignty and territorial integrity."

The United States, the European Union, and NATO are working toward a cease-fire, and the U.N. Security Council met behind closed doors to discuss the issue Saturday.

Georgia, a pro-Western ally of the United States, is intent on asserting its authority over South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Both have strong Russian-backed separatist movements.

Inside South Ossetia, civilians have been without water, electricity and basic services for more than a day, said Maia Kardava, a Red Cross spokeswoman in Tbilisi. She said the Red Cross was unable to reach colleagues based in Tskhinvali because their phones had lost power and they were huddled in bomb shelters.

[HURAKAN]

Britons warned to leave Georgia

The Foreign Office is advising all British nationals currently in Georgia to leave as soon as possible unless they have an urgent need to stay.

Officials earlier advised against all non-essential travel to the conflict-hit country, but stepped up their warning after further fighting.

Violence has erupted between Russian and Georgian forces over control of the breakaway South Ossetia region.

Foreign Secretary David Miliband has called for an immediate ceasefire.

Air services

On Friday, British Ambassador to Georgia Denis Keefe wrote to British citizens in the country advising them to stock up on water, food and fuel.

He said then that there was "no immediate cause for alarm" and British nationals were not being advised to leave the country.

However, on Sunday, the Foreign Office issued new advice.

It said in a statement: "If you or your family have no urgent need to remain in Georgia you should leave as soon as possible.

"It is wise to do so while some air services are still available and the border remains open."

The Foreign Office is also advising against all travel to the separatist regions of South Ossetia, Abkhazia and the upper Kodori.
People are really, really scared. No-one's speaking to each other, no-one's joking, no-one's laughing
Sian Davis
British charity worker in Georgia

It said serious fighting was continuing in South Ossetia and there had been aerial bombardment of Georgian military installations outside the conflict zone at the Black Sea port of Poti and the military bases at Vaziani, Senaki and Marneuli.

'Eerily quiet'

British charity worker Sian Davis told the BBC the mood in the Georgian capital Tbilisi was subdued.

She said: "Tbilisi looks fairly normal. It's pretty calm, but it's really, really quiet, eerily quiet, and last night the streets were empty, the restaurants were empty.

"Everyone was either at home or had packed up and moved out of the city.

"People are really, really scared. Even on the bus, there's people on the bus, but no-one's speaking to each other, no-one's joking, no-one's laughing and this is not Georgian normality, because Georgian normality is noisy and crazy and people laughing and joking.

"This is the problem - people are panicking."

Mr Miliband has said the government is "deeply concerned" by the violence in Georgia.

He has held talks with European foreign ministers and with US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice over how to respond to the crisis.

Based on Russian and South Ossetian estimates, the death toll on the South Ossetian side is believed to be at least 1,500, mostly civilians. Georgian casualty figures range from 82 dead, including 37 civilians, to a figure of about 130 dead.

[Chacor]

Georgia 'calls Ossetia ceasefire'

Georgia has ordered its forces to cease fire, and offered to start talks with Russia over an end to hostilities in South Ossetia, Georgian officials say.

Earlier Georgia said its troops had pulled out of the breakaway region and that Russian forces were in control of its capital, Tskhinvali.

Thousands of civilians have fled the area, following heavy fighting that broke out on Thursday night.

The US has described Russia's actions as "dangerous and disproportionate".

US Deputy National Security Adviser James Jeffrey warned that if the Russian escalation continued, it would have a "significant" long-term impact on relations between Moscow and Washington.

Fighting in South Ossetia was reported to be less intense on Sunday, as Russian forces took control and Georgian troops drew back.

Local residents fleeing the area on Sunday morning told the BBC there was continued fighting on the outskirts of Tskhinvali, although the city itself was relatively quiet.

But Georgia said Russian jets were still carrying out bombing raids, including hitting a military airfield close to the Georgian capital, Tbilisi.

[HURAKAN]

Some good news for the people caught in the middle of this war.

[Ed Mahmoud]

Link

AS I write, Russian tanks grind into a brave and isolated democratic state.

Assuming that the world’s attention would focus on Beijing, Moscow stage-managed an elaborate act of aggression against Georgia.

But the world has changed since Soviet tanks rolled unchallenged into Afghanistan at Christmastime 29 years ago. Global communications now spotlight aggression instantly.

Yesterday, the world didn’t watch the Olympic opening ceremonies (the Chinese must be furious at the Russians). Instead, we saw images of Soviet - sorry, I meant Russian - aircraft pounding Georgian territory as Russian armor rolled over the Caucasus Mountains.

The Kremlin is determined to break Georgia’s will - and keep the feisty republic out of NATO.

Russia, you see, still believes it’s entitled to all of its former empire. And, tragically, “Old Europe” is back: Yesterday, Germany and other nervous European states bought the Russian line that Georgia is the aggressor. Wouldn’t want to anger Moscow . . .

The background: When a fellow officer and I drove through the region in 1991, Georgian patriots and Russian “peacekeepers” were already facing off. As the USSR collapsed, its security services leapt to foment separatist (pro-Moscow) movements in the newly independent states. In Georgia’s case, that meant instigating rebellions in South Ossetia, Abkhazia and - unsuccessfully - Adjaria (the Caucasus is a crazy quilt of obscure identities). If Georgians insisted on independence, the Kremlin intended to dissect the country.

But then Russia found itself bogged down in a series of botched wars in Chechnya as its military rotted and the Yeltsin government floundered.

Now, however, the petrodollar-powered Russia of Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and his straight man, President Dmitri Medvedev, is swaggering - and determined to punish Georgia, to make it an example to other defiant neighbors.

What just happened? The Kremlin decided it was time to act, since Georgia was only growing stronger under its democratically elected government. Although NATO has been hemming and hawing about admitting Georgia, the Russians didn’t want to take any chances. (Just last month, 1,000 US troops were in Georgia for an exercise.)

Calculating that the media and world leaders would be partying in Beijing, the Russians ordered North Ossetian militiamen, backed by Russian “peacekeepers” and mercenaries, to provoke the Georgians earlier this month.

Weary of the Russian presence on their soil, the Georgians took the bait. President Mikheil Saakashvili ordered his US-trained military to respond.

That was the excuse the Kremlin wanted. Immediately, a tank brigade from Russia’s 58th Army (the butchers of Chechnya) crossed the international border into Poland - sorry, I meant Georgia.

How do I know that the Russians set a trap? Simple: Given the wretched state of Russian military readiness, that brigade could never have shot out of its motor pool on short notice. The Russians obviously “task-organized” the force in advance to make sure it would have working tanks with competent crews.

Otherwise, broken-down vehicles would’ve lined those mountain roads.

The Russians planned it. And they hope to push it to the limit.

What happens next? This is a fight between a very small David and a very large Goliath. That said, the Russians may be surprised at how fiercely the Georgians defend their homeland. At least two, and possibly four, Russian jets have been shot down while attacking Georgian bases close to the capital city, Tbilisi.

As of last night, the Georgians had retaken Tskhinvali, South Ossetia’s capital. I’d bet American veterans helped Georgia with contingency planning for just such a situation (it worked in Bosnia).

Meanwhile, hundreds of civilians and dozens of militiamen, Kremlin-funded mercenaries and Russian “peacekeepers” have been killed, along with tens of Georgian troops. This fighting is serious. And, unless Moscow pulls out all the stops, its forces just might take a surprise beating.

The Russian view: If I were a Russian staff planner (and sober), I wouldn’t expect to drive all the way to the Georgian capital - that would be too much for the West to stomach (although Russia’s greatest strength today is that it doesn’t care about world opinion).

My objective would be to retake Tskhinvali, then strike due south to cut Georgia’s lifelines to the world - the strategic highway, parallel rail line and international pipeline that connect Georgia’s eastern interior with its western ports.

(Incidentally, such an offensive would take the Kremlin’s tanks to the aptly named city of Gori, birthplace of Josef Stalin.)

If the Russian invaders can sever those links, they’ll cut Georgia in half. Control of that road-rail-pipeline complex would not only bring the Georgian economy to a standstill - it would also allow the Kremlin’s other clients in Abkhazia, on the Black Sea, to renew their attempt to devour Georgian territory.

Russian generals have always been good planners. The problems crop up in the execution.

And the Russians have several vulnerabilities:

* They have only a single route over the rugged Caucasus range. If Georgian commandos interdict it, the Russians will feel the supply pinch quickly. And any major Russian military operations need to be wrapped up before autumn snows close the passes - if there isn’t a cease-fire sooner.

* The Russians also need a local airfield to sustain their efforts - that could lure them closer to Georgia’s capital.

* Finally, the Russian army still relies on brute force - sophisticated combat operations are not its specialty.

We don’t know how this will develop. A Russian humiliation? A Kremlin success as the world wrings its hands but looks away? A destructive, bloody standoff?

The only thing that’s 100 percent clear is which side we should be on.

[Ptarmigan]

Vlad the Impaler was not just a KGB agent he was HEAD of the KGB at one time and once KGB always KGB. He's probably lucky he's out of China now because he'd be getting his behind cored by the Chinese who are most likely EXTREMELY incensed at the Russians spoiling their day.

Steve

Putin is one nutcase for sure. He seemed to show little emotions when the Beslan School Massacre happened in 2004. When the Soviet Union existed, China and Soviet Union were enemies. Nikita Khruschev denounced Stalin and Mao Zedong took it as an insult. That likely may have played some role in the collapse of the Soviet Union.

[x-y-no]

Looks like Georgia has realized they made a big mistake. The Russian government is eager to jump at any opportunity to expand their territory.

[HURAKAN]

Georgia move fails to halt raids

Russia has continued air raids deep inside Georgia, after it rejected Tbilisi's announcement that it had called a ceasefire and wanted talks.

Jets bombed targets near Tbilisi, including the airport, and Russia said its warships had sunk a Georgian boat that approached and tried to attack.

Russia earlier took control of the breakaway region of South Ossetia, forcing Georgian troops to withdraw.

The US has accused Russia of seeking "regime change" in Georgia.

Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili told the BBC his forces had observed a ceasefire since 0500 on Sunday morning, but had still been bombed by Russian planes. He said his government had been trying "all day" to contact Russia to discuss a ceasefire.

Peace mission

Russian jets were still carrying out bombing raids late on Sunday. Witnesses said jets had hit Tbilisi International Airport, as well as a military airfield close to the Georgian capital.

The airport was hit only a few hours before French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner and Finnish Foreign Minister Alexander Stubb arrived on a peace mission.

A Georgian official said earlier that Russian planes had bombed the western town of Zugdidi and Georgian-controlled territory inside Abkhazia. The claims could not be independently verified.

Later Russia's navy said it had sunk what it called a Georgian missile boat that had approached at high speed and tried to attack Russian warships in the Black Sea.

The conflict has caused civilian casualties and more are at risk
Antonio Guterres
UN High Commissioner for Refugees

Meanwhile, there the US clashed with Russia at the United Nations Security Council, accusing it of seeking "regime change" in Georgia.

The US ambassador to the UN, Zalmay Khalilzad, quoted Russia's foreign minister saying Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili "must go".

He asked his Russian counterpart, Vitaly Churkin: "Is the goal of the Russian Federation to change the leadership of Georgia?"

Mr Churkin did not directly answer the question, but said there were leaders who had "become an obstacle".

The council has met for four days running, but has failed to agree on the wording of a statement calling for a ceasefire.

But the US said it was preparing a draft resolution condemning Russia. Analysts said although Russia would veto such a statement, the US wanted to build backing for the motion to demonstrate international opinion.

Clashes in South Ossetia itself were reported to be less intense on Sunday, as Russian forces took control and Georgian troops drew back.

Please turn on JavaScript. Media requires JavaScript to play.

Mikhail Saakashvili claims Russia has not respected the ceasefire

Local residents fleeing the area on Sunday morning told the BBC that Tskhinvali was relatively quiet.

Later, however, the BBC's Richard Galpin described a sense of panic on Sunday night in the Georgian town of Gori, near South Ossetia, amid fears that Russian troops were about to march on the town.

He had been warned by the interior ministry to leave Gori, only to find that the road to Tbilisi was crammed with cars full of fleeing civilians.

'Disproportionate force'

Georgia's announcement of its ceasefire came in a statement from the foreign ministry, stating that Georgia "today stopped firing in the South Ossetian conflict zone and is ready to begin talks with Russia on a ceasefire and cessation of hostilities".

It said a note had been passed to the Russian embassy in Georgia to that effect.


ARMED FORCES COMPARED
GEORGIA
Total personnel: 26,900
Main battle tanks (T-72): 82
Armoured personnel carriers: 139
Combat aircraft (Su-25): Seven
Heavy artillery pieces (including Grad rocket launchers): 95
RUSSIA
Total personnel: 641,000
Main battle tanks (various): 6,717
Armoured personnel carriers: 6,388
Combat aircraft (various): 1,206
Heavy artillery pieces (various): 7,550
Source: Jane's Sentinel Country Risk Assessments

But a Russian foreign ministry official was quoted by Interfax saying "our information does not confirm the Georgian statement".

"There are indications that exchanges of fire are continuing and the Georgian forces have not been fully withdrawn from the conflict zone," he said.

The United Nations refugee agency (UNHCR) called on the parties to the conflict to grant safe passage for thousands of civilians trying to escape the war zone.

The UNHCR estimates that between 10,000 and 20,000 people have been displaced within Georgia, including South Ossetia, while Russia has said that a further 30,000 people have fled north into the Russian province of North Ossetia.

"The conflict has caused civilian casualties and more are at risk," UN High Commissioner for Refugees Antonio Guterres said.

"It is essential that humanitarian agencies be able to reach the affected and the displaced."

Meanwhile tensions were rising in Georgia's other breakaway region, Abkhazia.

The leader of the separatist government there, Sergei Bagapsh, said he had ordered a military operation to clear Georgian forces out of Abkhazia's Kodori Gorge, and gave them a deadline to leave.

Georgia has accused Russia of landing 4,000 more troops in Abkhazia via the Black Sea. The separatists said Georgia had deployed a similar number of soldiers south of the Abkhaz border.

Are you in the areas affected by the violence? If you have witnessed anything you want to share with the BBC, please do so using the form below:

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yourpics@bbc.co.uk or text them to +44 7725 100 100 . If you have a large file you can upload here. Click here to see terms and conditions.

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Comments

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/e ... 552908.stm

Published: 2008/08/10 21:29:45 GMT

© BBC MMVIII

[Matt-hurricanewatcher]

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st ... 01,00.html

“There was massive bombing of Gori all evening and now we are getting reports of an imminent attack by Russian tanks,” interior ministry spokesman Shota Utiashvili said.

“Gori is being bombed massively from the air and from artillery as well.”

...

Mr Utiashvili said Russian troops were preparing a ground assault.

They “are not there yet but it looks like they are getting ready for it,” he said, adding that Georgian forces were returning fire on Russian positions.
....

Looks like NO peace talks because Russia don't went them. Russia wents to bomb and kill people, they went to take over Georgia it appears.

JMO, I believe that America could easly force what they(russians) have in Georgia out. 1# They have T-72 tanks which are 30 years old; while we have much more powerful tanks. We have a more advance air force to bomb their lines and do what we did in Iraq in gulf war one. Most Russian troops are much less paid and wiling to fight to the death then our army. On the other hand if Russia seen us coming they would flood down hundreds of thousands of troops from the north. So it would turn into a big war. I don't know what we should do, because it would be wrong to allow a friend to be tooken over, but we don't have the will at home for a big war.

We have a much more seasoned army after fighting two wars. So if we where forced to go to war against Russia and there was "no nukes" I believe we would beat them. It would more likely be just to chase them out of Georgia because we would went nothing to do with invading russia. That is where we could loss a lot, in it would not be wise.

Hopefully we don't have to do anything.

[DanKellFla]

FYI, this has been brewing for a few months at least. The big surprise is the use of air power.
My question is, what natural resource is Russia after? If this was just over some people wanting to be Russian, there is no way it would get to this point. There has to be something there. Minerals, access to shipping routes, more oil....

Kosovo War? We went much farther than Russia is going over a nearly identical issue. (one could say that we had less of a right to be involved there, as Russia is protecting some of its citizens, while we were fighting for our interests). We also killed several thousand civilians and smashed an entire country.

I supported what we did in Kosovo. Therefore, to be consistent (unless new information becomes available), I support Russia here

I am not comparing it to Kosovo at all. In any case, with Kosovo, there were many months of fruitless talks before the bombing started. This use of air power came on quickly. I don't think there were any attempts at negotioating a solution to this. Russia has a dominent millitary and is using it.


Matt-H.... It isn't the equipment that would allow the US to win a conflict. It is the integrated command and control structure that allows for better real time decisions. Although, our equipment is better for the most part. There is almost no chance that the US will get involved. That would be terrible for the whole world.

[Derek Ortt]

This has also been brewing for many months

I cannot be a hypocrite and criticize Russia, when we did far more deadly and destructive air raids against Serbia. Russia is not sending anywhere near the numbers of planes that we sent. remember, we were sending about 1,000 per day in the final month of the war. We killed several THOUSAND civilians. I was a big supporter of that war. I, therefore, will not be th hypocrite and denounce Russia for doing something very similar.

[Chacor]

US warning to Russia over Georgia

The US has strongly criticised Russian military action against Georgia, in the bitter conflict over South Ossetia.

In a telephone call to Georgia's leader Mikhail Saakashvili, the US Vice President, Dick Cheney, said Russian aggression "must not go unanswered".

President Bush said he had expressed his grave concern to Moscow at the military's "disproportionate" response.

Meanwhile, Georgia said Russian planes had bombed targets near its capital, despite Tbilisi declaring a ceasefire.

The BBC's Justin Webb in Washington says Dick Cheney's telephone call appears to have been an effort to send a message not just of solidarity but also of readiness for action.

Mr Cheney said the continuation of violence against Georgia would have serious consequences for Russia's relations with the US, as well as the international community.

But White House officials refused to speculate on what America might do if the Russian military action continued.

Earlier, the US ambassador at the UN accused Russia of seeking "regime change" in Georgia.

Russia has continued air raids deep inside Georgia, after it rejected Tbilisi's announcement that it had called a ceasefire and wanted talks.

Georgia's interior ministry said the latest attacks took place in the early hours of Monday and targeted a military base and radar installation. There were no details of casualties.

Earlier, Georgia said Russia had bombed the international airport near Tbilisi. Russia accused Georgia of spreading disinformation.

Meanwhile tens of thousands of people have fled the Georgian town of Gori, near the border with South Ossetia, amid fears that Russian troops are heading for the town.

The BBC's Richard Galpin described a sense of panic on Sunday night. He said he had been warned by the interior ministry to leave Gori, only to find that the road to Tbilisi was crammed with cars full of fleeing civilians.

The United Nations refugee agency (UNHCR) has called on the parties to the conflict to grant safe passage to civilians trying to escape the war zone.

The UNHCR estimates that between 10,000 and 20,000 people have been displaced within Georgia, including South Ossetia, while Russia has said that a further 30,000 people have fled north into the Russian province of North Ossetia.

President Saakashvili told the BBC his forces had observed a ceasefire since 0500 on Sunday, but had still been bombed by Russian planes.

He said his government had been trying "all day" to contact Russia to discuss a ceasefire.

A Russian foreign ministry official, quoted by Moscow-based news agency Interfax, said there were "indications the Georgian forces have not been fully withdrawn from the conflict zone".

Meanwhile tensions were rising in Georgia's other breakaway region, Abkhazia.

A Georgian official said Russian planes had bombed the western town of Zugdidi and Georgian-controlled territory inside Abkhazia. The claims could not be independently verified.

The leader of the separatist government there, Sergei Bagapsh, said he had ordered a military operation to clear Georgian forces out of Abkhazia's Kodori Gorge, and gave them a deadline to leave.

Georgia has accused Russia of landing 4,000 more troops in Abkhazia via the Black Sea. The separatists said Georgia had deployed a similar number of soldiers south of the Abkhaz border.

[Matt-hurricanewatcher]

We helped in Iraq - now help us, beg Georgians

As Russia forces its neighbour to retreat from South Ossetia, the people of Gori tell our correspondent of betrayal by the West”

snip http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 500362.ece


A country like Georiga are our real friend., it is not countrys like Iraq that will stab us in the back as soon as we are gone, hell most of the groups that make of that country likely sleep dreaming of doing so. It makes me very sad that we can't help a friend that can and will say thank you. This friend is more pro American then Brition, I wonder what you would say if Russia was invading Brition and Brition asked for our help. Would you have a different option in that case? Instead of all the country's that say something "else" like we are the great satan or the devil behind our backs or stab us in the back that we have helped. We are loved in Georgia and its government is pro American, how many governments in this world can we say the same. Just think about this for a second.

You better believe we would come to Britons aid.

Derek ortt you have to remember "Russia"(USSR) was our enemy and wented us dead. No wented us dead more then they did. They would of used nukes to flaten our citys with out batting a tear. They killed some say over 100,000,000 people in the 20th century. I don't think they should be trusted.

[Chacor]

Britain.

[Matt-hurricanewatcher]

Russian bombs fall as Bush tell Putin to end violence
The Herald Sun ^ | August 11, 2008



BOMBS are reportedly falling on Georgia's capital as George W Bush tells Russian PM Vladimir Putin to end the "unacceptable" violence.

Russian planes have reportedly bombed military targets in the suburbs of Tbilisi, just hours after the city of Gori was said to be under "massive" attack.

An explosion was heard in the centre of Tbilisi around 4.40am (10.40am Melbourne time).

"At least two bombs were dropped," said Interior Ministry spokesman Shota Utiashvili.

The first bomb struck the village of Kodjori some 10km from Tbilisi where the base of a special forces battalion was located, he said.

The second bomb struck an air traffic control centre located 5km from the centre of Tbilisi, he added.

Gori was said to be under attack from Russian artillery and planes, with ground forces preparing for an assault.

Georgian interior ministry spokesman Shota Utiashvili said: "There was massive bombing of Gori all evening and now we are getting reports of an imminent attack by Russian tanks.

"Gori is being bombed massively from the air and from artillery as well."

He said Russian troops "are not there yet but it looks like they are getting ready for it".


(Excerpt) Read more at news.com.au

I think it is almost time to unleash the dogs!!!