Caucusus: Ceasefire signed, Georgia claims bridge blown up
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Russian jets pound new Georgian targets
TBILISI, Georgia (CNN) -- Swarms of Russian jets launched new raids on Georgia Monday, including bombing near the presidential palace in the capital, Tbilisi.
Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili abruptly ended a telephone conference call with Western journalists on Monday, explaining that Russian warplanes were flying over the presidential palace.
An operator explained that "Russian planes are bombing near the president's location" and that the call would be rescheduled.
Earlier, Russian officials accused Georgia of violating its pledge to observe a cease-fire around the breakaway province of South Ossetia, according to reports.
In the latest attacks Russian jets hit a radar on the outskirts of the Georgian capital, bombed an airfield and also targeted the Black Sea port of Poti, inflicting no casualties, Georgian officials told The Associated Press.
Georgian Security Council chief Alexander Lomaia said up to 50 Russian jets were roaming the skies Monday morning.
Georgia declared a cease-fire around the contested region of South Ossetia on Sunday, but Russian officials told AP Georgian forces were not observing it.
Russian Maj.-Gen. Marat Kulakhmetov said that Georgian forces continued shelling Russian positions overnight and conducted a bombing run in the area.
Meanwhile Georgia said a Russian general in Abkhazia, the other breakaway province, issued an ultimatum Monday to its forces nearby to disarm or face Russian troops moving into Georgian-controlled territory, AP reported.
U.N. officials had earlier expressed concern about violence in Abkhazia after Abkhaz forces launched air and artillery strikes on Georgian troops Sunday.
U.N. Assistant Secretary-General Edmond Mulet said Russian personnel and weapons were part of a military buildup in Abkhazia's capital, Sukhumi. The Georgian government said 4,000 Russian troops had landed in Abkhazia, according to AP.
Also Sunday, bombing was reported in the Georgian city of Zugdidi, south of the Abkhaz border, "causing panic among the civilian population," Mulet said.
He said Abkhaz forces had moved to its border with the rest of Georgia.
The U.S. ambassador to the U.N., Zalmay Khalilzad, told the U.N. Security Council that a Russian-backed military operation in Abkhazia was under way.
Khalilzad also addressed Russia's battle with Georgia over South Ossetia, alleging at a Security Council meeting that Russia was trying to overthrow Georgia's government, a former Soviet republic.
Khalilzad told the Security Council that Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov had told U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice that Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili "must go."
Khalilzad then asked Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churkin whether the Russians were seeking "regime change" in Georgia with the military operation they launched Friday. In response, Churkin objected to the disclosure of a confidential phone call between top diplomats and said that "regime change" was "an American expression."
Meanwhile South Ossetia's capital, Tskhinvali, lay in smoldering ruins after four days of fighting between Georgian and Russian forces.
Each side accused the other of killing large numbers of civilians. Russia said at least 2,000 people had been killed in Tskhinvali.
Georgia began withdrawing its forces from Tskhinvali early Sunday.
Lomaia, secretary of Georgia's National Security Council, said the withdrawal was a show of goodwill, aimed at encouraging Russia to accept a cease-fire.
Russia insisted Georgia had no plans to stop its military actions.
Georgia, a pro-Western ally of the U.S., is intent on asserting its authority over South Ossetia and Abkhazia, both of which have strong Russian-backed separatist movements.
The situation in South Ossetia escalated rapidly from Thursday night, when Georgia said it launched an operation into the region after artillery fire from separatists killed 10 people. It accused Russia of backing the separatists.
South Ossetia, which has a population of about 70,000, is inside Georgia but has an autonomous government. Many South Ossetians support unification with North Ossetia, which would make them part of Russia.
Russia supports the South Ossetian government, has given passports to many in South Ossetia, and calls them Russian citizens.
Russia has accused Georgia of a genocidal plot to cleanse the region of ethnic Ossetians loyal to Russia. Conversely, Georgia accuses Russia of executing a long-planned war to take control of the region, which has a key pipeline that carries Asian oil to Black Sea ports.
TBILISI, Georgia (CNN) -- Swarms of Russian jets launched new raids on Georgia Monday, including bombing near the presidential palace in the capital, Tbilisi.
Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili abruptly ended a telephone conference call with Western journalists on Monday, explaining that Russian warplanes were flying over the presidential palace.
An operator explained that "Russian planes are bombing near the president's location" and that the call would be rescheduled.
Earlier, Russian officials accused Georgia of violating its pledge to observe a cease-fire around the breakaway province of South Ossetia, according to reports.
In the latest attacks Russian jets hit a radar on the outskirts of the Georgian capital, bombed an airfield and also targeted the Black Sea port of Poti, inflicting no casualties, Georgian officials told The Associated Press.
Georgian Security Council chief Alexander Lomaia said up to 50 Russian jets were roaming the skies Monday morning.
Georgia declared a cease-fire around the contested region of South Ossetia on Sunday, but Russian officials told AP Georgian forces were not observing it.
Russian Maj.-Gen. Marat Kulakhmetov said that Georgian forces continued shelling Russian positions overnight and conducted a bombing run in the area.
Meanwhile Georgia said a Russian general in Abkhazia, the other breakaway province, issued an ultimatum Monday to its forces nearby to disarm or face Russian troops moving into Georgian-controlled territory, AP reported.
U.N. officials had earlier expressed concern about violence in Abkhazia after Abkhaz forces launched air and artillery strikes on Georgian troops Sunday.
U.N. Assistant Secretary-General Edmond Mulet said Russian personnel and weapons were part of a military buildup in Abkhazia's capital, Sukhumi. The Georgian government said 4,000 Russian troops had landed in Abkhazia, according to AP.
Also Sunday, bombing was reported in the Georgian city of Zugdidi, south of the Abkhaz border, "causing panic among the civilian population," Mulet said.
He said Abkhaz forces had moved to its border with the rest of Georgia.
The U.S. ambassador to the U.N., Zalmay Khalilzad, told the U.N. Security Council that a Russian-backed military operation in Abkhazia was under way.
Khalilzad also addressed Russia's battle with Georgia over South Ossetia, alleging at a Security Council meeting that Russia was trying to overthrow Georgia's government, a former Soviet republic.
Khalilzad told the Security Council that Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov had told U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice that Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili "must go."
Khalilzad then asked Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churkin whether the Russians were seeking "regime change" in Georgia with the military operation they launched Friday. In response, Churkin objected to the disclosure of a confidential phone call between top diplomats and said that "regime change" was "an American expression."
Meanwhile South Ossetia's capital, Tskhinvali, lay in smoldering ruins after four days of fighting between Georgian and Russian forces.
Each side accused the other of killing large numbers of civilians. Russia said at least 2,000 people had been killed in Tskhinvali.
Georgia began withdrawing its forces from Tskhinvali early Sunday.
Lomaia, secretary of Georgia's National Security Council, said the withdrawal was a show of goodwill, aimed at encouraging Russia to accept a cease-fire.
Russia insisted Georgia had no plans to stop its military actions.
Georgia, a pro-Western ally of the U.S., is intent on asserting its authority over South Ossetia and Abkhazia, both of which have strong Russian-backed separatist movements.
The situation in South Ossetia escalated rapidly from Thursday night, when Georgia said it launched an operation into the region after artillery fire from separatists killed 10 people. It accused Russia of backing the separatists.
South Ossetia, which has a population of about 70,000, is inside Georgia but has an autonomous government. Many South Ossetians support unification with North Ossetia, which would make them part of Russia.
Russia supports the South Ossetian government, has given passports to many in South Ossetia, and calls them Russian citizens.
Russia has accused Georgia of a genocidal plot to cleanse the region of ethnic Ossetians loyal to Russia. Conversely, Georgia accuses Russia of executing a long-planned war to take control of the region, which has a key pipeline that carries Asian oil to Black Sea ports.
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Matt-hurricanewatcher
Re: Caucuses War: Georgia signs ceasefire in front of EU mission
Not like Russia cares about a cessfire. They are still pounding Georgia right now big time. In they plan to take the government of Georgia down. We will see what happens but it appears to be what they are doing. It is Russia's choice on what they will or won't do...No one is strong enough to currently stand in their way.
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Derek Ortt
Re: War in the Caucuses: U.S. in new warning to Moscow
Matt-hurricanewatcher wrote:We helped in Iraq - now help us, beg Georgians
As Russia forces its neighbour to retreat from South Ossetia, the people of Gori tell our correspondent of betrayal by the West”
snip http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 500362.ece
A country like Georiga are our real friend., it is not countrys like Iraq that will stab us in the back as soon as we are gone, hell most of the groups that make of that country likely sleep dreaming of doing so. It makes me very sad that we can't help a friend that can and will say thank you. This friend is more pro American then Brition, I wonder what you would say if Russia was invading Brition and Brition asked for our help. Would you have a different option in that case? Instead of all the country's that say something "else" like we are the great satan or the devil behind our backs or stab us in the back that we have helped. We are loved in Georgia and its government is pro American, how many governments in this world can we say the same. Just think about this for a second.
You better believe we would come to Britons aid.
Derek ortt you have to remember "Russia"(USSR) was our enemy and wented us dead. No wented us dead more then they did. They would of used nukes to flaten our citys with out batting a tear. They killed some say over 100,000,000 people in the 20th century. I don't think they should be trusted.
Where to begin Matt?
This is NOT the Soviet Union! Russia is NOT Communist. You are aware that the Communist Party is the OPPOSITION, aren't you? You are aware that Putin jails the Communists, aren't you? (you can argue that Russia has become a facist state, but we should argue Russian politics in a political forum)
The USSR also would not have used nukes without shedding a tear. That shows you do not have a good grip on history at all. They had nukes as a deterrent against us. They actually used the weapons in a responsible manner, as we did. Kept the two sides from fighting a war. Saved tens of millions of lives.
Britain would never be invaded. Britain also would not have fired the first shot. Georgia is just upset that they are getting their tails kicked in a war they started. Same thing happened to Serbia (you do remember the Kosovo War, don't you Matt?)
Georgia is also not worth blowing up the world over. You'd probably have caused 10 nuclear wars with your wanting to attack Russia by now, Matt
The Cold War is over
Have a different option? do you mean opinion? I am not sure what you are trying to say there. The two words have completely different meanings (I think of old fashioned Oklahoma/Nebraska football when I see option)
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Derek Ortt
Russians advance in west Georgia
Russian troops have entered Georgia from the breakaway region of Abkhazia, as the conflict between the two neighbours appears to be broadening.
Moscow said it had launched a raid on the town of Senaki to stop Georgia from attacking Russian forces in South Ossetia, another breakaway region.
As the fighting continued in South Ossetia, foreign envoys were pressing for a ceasefire in the conflict.
Each side accuses the other of carrying out atrocities in the region.
Fighting in South Ossetia erupted late last week when Georgia launched an overnight assault on the territory.
Russia, which supports the province's bid for separation, then bombed targets throughout Georgia and moved troops into the region and into Abkhazia.
On Monday EU envoys were attempting to broker an agreement between Tbilisi and Moscow.
Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili signed an EU-backed ceasefire, but the document was rejected by Moscow.
And leaders from both countries carried on a war of words, with Russia accusing Georgia of genocide, and President Saakashvili hitting back with claims of ethnic cleansing.
----
Look at how far Senaki is from the Abkhazian border. This is now a full-scale invasion.
Russian troops have entered Georgia from the breakaway region of Abkhazia, as the conflict between the two neighbours appears to be broadening.
Moscow said it had launched a raid on the town of Senaki to stop Georgia from attacking Russian forces in South Ossetia, another breakaway region.
As the fighting continued in South Ossetia, foreign envoys were pressing for a ceasefire in the conflict.
Each side accuses the other of carrying out atrocities in the region.
Fighting in South Ossetia erupted late last week when Georgia launched an overnight assault on the territory.
Russia, which supports the province's bid for separation, then bombed targets throughout Georgia and moved troops into the region and into Abkhazia.
On Monday EU envoys were attempting to broker an agreement between Tbilisi and Moscow.
Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili signed an EU-backed ceasefire, but the document was rejected by Moscow.
And leaders from both countries carried on a war of words, with Russia accusing Georgia of genocide, and President Saakashvili hitting back with claims of ethnic cleansing.
----
Look at how far Senaki is from the Abkhazian border. This is now a full-scale invasion.
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Re:
Chacor wrote:Breaking news: Gori, Georgia, south of South Ossetia, has fallen to Russia, according to Georgian sources. Russian officials have also told Interfax, Russia's news agency, that it has indeed entered Georgia proper from Abkhazia in the west.
Guess Russia wants Georgia back. There's a big op-ed in the WSJ from Georgia's leader asking for our help. Seems we are a bit tied up fighting elsewhere at the moment.
Many journalists have died in Russia and the head of BP recently basically had to flee the country as Russia took over the company's headquarters. We should also not forget that Russia basically unleashed a tiny nuclear weapon on British soil not too long ago.
Not sure what's going to happen here but most likely Russia will take Georgia back. Will they try to take back more countries after that?
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TBILISI (Reuters) - A Georgian official said on Monday that Russian forces had captured the Georgian town of Gori, 60 kilometers from the capital Tbilisi, but a Reuters witness saw no troops in the empty town.
"They have captured the city of Gori," the secretary of Georgia's security council, Kakha Lomaia told Reuters by telephone.
A Reuters reporter in Gori said: "We are right now driving through the town and I see no trace of troops or military vehicles. It is absolutely deserted."
(Reporting by James Kilner and Margarita Antidze)
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/ ... 4520080811
"They have captured the city of Gori," the secretary of Georgia's security council, Kakha Lomaia told Reuters by telephone.
A Reuters reporter in Gori said: "We are right now driving through the town and I see no trace of troops or military vehicles. It is absolutely deserted."
(Reporting by James Kilner and Margarita Antidze)
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/ ... 4520080811
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Ed Mahmoud
Re: Caucuses war- Georgia: Russia has taken town of Gori
Medvedev is a puppet, Putin, the former KGB spymaster, still runs the show.
I have read several opinions that the Russians formented unrest in S. Ossetia recently, hoping to provoke a Georgian reaction they could use as a pretext for invasion.
Not sure if Putin's vision of a once and future Soviet Union would actually pretend to be communist, (or be called the Soviet Union) but I suspect it will be totalitarian and hostile to its neighbors.
Not sure what the US can do about it, besides the usual diplomatic approaches. If Russia is bound to topple the government in Georgia and set up a pro-Russian puppet, nothing short of military action would stop them, and despite Georgia being a pretty reliable ally of the West, I can't see World War 3 over it.
I think the Cold War didn't actually end, the USSR lost a big battle, and an apparent truce ensued, but the same type of people that ran the USSR are running it again, and the Cold War will return. Shame that Yeltsin had health and/or alcohol issues, it seems he really meant to install a liberal constitutionally based democracy.
I have read several opinions that the Russians formented unrest in S. Ossetia recently, hoping to provoke a Georgian reaction they could use as a pretext for invasion.
Not sure if Putin's vision of a once and future Soviet Union would actually pretend to be communist, (or be called the Soviet Union) but I suspect it will be totalitarian and hostile to its neighbors.
Not sure what the US can do about it, besides the usual diplomatic approaches. If Russia is bound to topple the government in Georgia and set up a pro-Russian puppet, nothing short of military action would stop them, and despite Georgia being a pretty reliable ally of the West, I can't see World War 3 over it.
I think the Cold War didn't actually end, the USSR lost a big battle, and an apparent truce ensued, but the same type of people that ran the USSR are running it again, and the Cold War will return. Shame that Yeltsin had health and/or alcohol issues, it seems he really meant to install a liberal constitutionally based democracy.
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Derek Ortt
Shame that Yeltsin had health and/or alcohol issues, it seems he really meant to install a liberal constitutionally based democracy.
Yeltsin nearly started WW3 in 1995 because he was too drunk to know whether or not Norwegian Rockets were American ICBMs
Here is some info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Rocket_Incident
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... closecall/
1-2 minutes away, because Yeltsin forgot about a launch. I was glad when Putin took over... because Yeltsin is too incompetent to lead a nuclear state
Yeltsin nearly started WW3 in 1995 because he was too drunk to know whether or not Norwegian Rockets were American ICBMs
Here is some info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Rocket_Incident
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... closecall/
1-2 minutes away, because Yeltsin forgot about a launch. I was glad when Putin took over... because Yeltsin is too incompetent to lead a nuclear state
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Ed Mahmoud
Re: Caucuses war- Georgia: Russia has taken town of Gori
Your links suggest the Russian military dropped the ball, not Yeltsin personally.
His heart was in the right place, I think, but he seemed to have had a drinking problem.
His heart was in the right place, I think, but he seemed to have had a drinking problem.
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Derek Ortt
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Aslkahuna
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Re: Caucuses war- Georgia: Russia has taken town of Gori
It's back to the 1950's everyone-better learn how to dive for cover. There are some very harsh moves the US can make on the Diplomatic scene (and should make). Georgia is done for because we could never get any of our forces there in time. What we do is expel the Russian Ambassador, recall our own, order all Russian Consulates closed and their Embassy staff reduced by 75% with severe travel restrictions while closing our consulates and reducing our Embassy staff. No visas for Russian nationals, ban all flights from Russia from landing in the US and finally ending all bilateral discussions with the Russians and refuse to deal with them at the G-8 meetings.
Steve
Steve
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Re: Caucuses war- Georgia: Russia has taken town of Gori
Aslkahuna wrote:It's back to the 1950's everyone-better learn how to dive for cover. There are some very harsh moves the US can make on the Diplomatic scene (and should make). Georgia is done for because we could never get any of our forces there in time. What we do is expel the Russian Ambassador, recall our own, order all Russian Consulates closed and their Embassy staff reduced by 75% with severe travel restrictions while closing our consulates and reducing our Embassy staff. No visas for Russian nationals, ban all flights from Russia from landing in the US and finally ending all bilateral discussions with the Russians and refuse to deal with them at the G-8 meetings.
Steve
Yep. Strongly agree with this.
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Brent
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Re: Caucuses war- Georgia: Russia has taken town of Gori
Aslkahuna wrote:It's back to the 1950's everyone-better learn how to dive for cover. There are some very harsh moves the US can make on the Diplomatic scene (and should make). Georgia is done for because we could never get any of our forces there in time. What we do is expel the Russian Ambassador, recall our own, order all Russian Consulates closed and their Embassy staff reduced by 75% with severe travel restrictions while closing our consulates and reducing our Embassy staff. No visas for Russian nationals, ban all flights from Russia from landing in the US and finally ending all bilateral discussions with the Russians and refuse to deal with them at the G-8 meetings.
Steve
I'm starting to agree
and I should add that Putin makes me very nervous.
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Re: Re:
DanKellFla wrote:Derek Ortt wrote:DanKellFla wrote:FYI, this has been brewing for a few months at least. The big surprise is the use of air power.
My question is, what natural resource is Russia after? If this was just over some people wanting to be Russian, there is no way it would get to this point. There has to be something there. Minerals, access to shipping routes, more oil....
Kosovo War? We went much farther than Russia is going over a nearly identical issue. (one could say that we had less of a right to be involved there, as Russia is protecting some of its citizens, while we were fighting for our interests). We also killed several thousand civilians and smashed an entire country.
I supported what we did in Kosovo. Therefore, to be consistent (unless new information becomes available), I support Russia here
I am not comparing it to Kosovo at all. In any case, with Kosovo, there were many months of fruitless talks before the bombing started. This use of air power came on quickly. I don't think there were any attempts at negotioating a solution to this. Russia has a dominent millitary and is using it.
Matt-H.... It isn't the equipment that would allow the US to win a conflict. It is the integrated command and control structure that allows for better real time decisions. Although, our equipment is better for the most part. There is almost no chance that the US will get involved. That would be terrible for the whole world.
my understanding is Russia tried to bomb the major oil pipeline coming from Asia. Last I heard they failed at their attempt.
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