ATL: Tropical Depression Fay

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CrazyC83
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Re: ATL: Tropical Storm Fay South of Cuba

#6781 Postby CrazyC83 » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:13 pm

srainhoutx wrote:
MiamiensisWx wrote:THE FORECAST TRACK SITUATION IS SIMILAR TO THAT OF HURRICANE CHARELY
FROM AUGUST 2004
...IN THAT A SMALL CHANGE IN THE TRACK OF THE STORM
COULD MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE IN THE EVETUAL LANDFALL LOCATION. THE
NHC WIND SPEED PROBABILITIES PRODUCT SHOWS ABOUT AN EQUAL CHANCE OF
HURRICANE-FORCE WINDS FOR THE ENTIRE WEST COAST OF THE FLORIDA
PENINSULA.

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/text/refresh/MIATCDAT1+shtml/172105.shtml


My thoughts continue for "our interests" in the FL Keys and SW FL. :(


They need to be greatly emphasized. If the media is pointing to Tampa Bay, a slight wobble could send it into the Fort Myers/Naples area or into the Cedar Key/Steinhatchee area.
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#6782 Postby funster » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:13 pm

NHC confirms that Fay was indeed getting better organized this afternoon: "Fay has become a little better organzied in satellite and radar imagery this afternoon...with increased curved bands of convection
near the center in the northeastern semicircle."
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#6783 Postby KWT » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:14 pm

Yeah as the NHC says this is similar to Charley in that even a 10 degree differenc ein the angle of attack could make as much as 100 miles difference in terms of landfall which at this range is pretty impressive.

LLC has really slowed down as others say and so the relative shear is easing off and so convection slowly developing closer to the center, looks like its slowly getting better.
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Re: ATL: Tropical Storm Fay South of Cuba

#6784 Postby MGC » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:18 pm

Fay is just having a difficult time getting an inner core going, which is a good thing. Having to cross Cuba should futher disrupt the circulation. I doubt Fay will reach hurricane intensity before landfall in Cuba and I'm having my doubts on Fay reaching hurricane intensity if she hits anywhere south of Tampa. If Fay makes landfall north of Tampa then there is a chance of hurricane intensity depending on how well Fay does when it moves over the GOM...MGC

Of course the above is the opinion of MGC and not an official forecast.
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#6785 Postby CrazyC83 » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:20 pm

One thing to remember about Charley - it didn't intensify at all in the hours after it left Cuba. It was only on the approach to landfall did Charley bomb out...
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Re: ATL: Tropical Storm Fay South of Cuba

#6786 Postby wxman57 » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:21 pm

I'd say it looks better than it did this morning, but why use a satellite estimate for winds when recon is in there measuring lower winds? I know they didn't sample the NE quad, and the winds could be up to 45-50 in there. I still have serious doubts about this making hurricane strength before moving inland, though I still have 75 mph as max intensity on my latest forecast. Probably a small area of hurricane force winds over the water, if any.

New consensus models are left of Tampa now. Let's see if they swing back to the east tonight. They've moved back and forth every few runs the past few days. I'm getting tired of Fay.
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Re: ATL: Tropical Storm Fay South of Cuba

#6787 Postby dixiebreeze » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:22 pm

Fay moving north and west:

DATE/TIME LAT LON CLASSIFICATION STORM
17/1745 UTC 21.0N 79.9W T2.0/2.5

FAY
17/1145 UTC 20.0N 77.8W T2.5/2.5 FAY
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Re: ATL: Tropical Storm Fay South of Cuba

#6788 Postby Shockwave » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:23 pm

This has been MY forecast all along...a Pensacola, FL landfall. What's everyone's take on that being a good point of intrest? The Spaghetti charts have a Florida Panhandle landfall a big possiblilty, but most on here are still saying a Tampa threat is what's most likely. How come the Panhandle is being discounted?
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Re: ATL: Tropical Storm Fay South of Cuba

#6789 Postby srainhoutx » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:23 pm

wxman57 wrote:I'd say it looks better than it did this morning, but why use a satellite estimate for winds when recon is in there measuring lower winds? I know they didn't sample the NE quad, and the winds could be up to 45-50 in there. I still have serious doubts about this making hurricane strength before moving inland, though I still have 75 mph as max intensity on my latest forecast. Probably a small area of hurricane force winds over the water, if any.

New consensus models are left of Tampa now. Let's see if they swing back to the east tonight. They've moved back and forth every few runs the past few days. I'm getting tired of Fay.


Agreed wxman57. This continues to be a real pain from a forecasting point.
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Re: ATL: Tropical Storm Fay South of Cuba

#6790 Postby Jason_B » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:24 pm

Shockwave wrote:This has been MY forecast all along...a Pensacola, FL landfall. What's everyone's take on that being a good point of intrest? The Spaghetti charts have a Florida Panhandle landfall a big possiblilty, but most on here are still saying a Tampa threat is what's most likely. How come the Panhandle is being discounted?
Pretty sure there's a trough that will sweep it NE before it gets close to Pensacola.
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Re: ATL: Tropical Storm Fay South of Cuba

#6791 Postby Aric Dunn » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:25 pm

Check out the center pulling up under that convection .. and the Se quad banding .. quite impressive..
hurricane is still possible ..
man i have been having to change my thinking so much on this system as the trends never seem to hold for very long..

Image
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Re: ATL: Tropical Storm Fay South of Cuba

#6792 Postby PTPatrick » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:26 pm

if you look at the tail end of MOST of the models, there is no longer that hook eastward. Even how freind Canadian makes a LEFT hook toward the end, despite bringing it NNE for a trip over florida. Now the million dollar question...why all of this boads poorly for areas West, even as far west I am thinking as say Missisippi and Mobile. I think the Models are starting to pick up on a strengthening southeast ridge around day 3-5. The devil is in the details. The all seem to want to weaken it in the short term bringing it off the coast of Tampa. The difference lie in the strength of the ridge thereafter. No denying if Fay were zooming, pensacola is behind the trough and would be fine. However, Fay is supposed to be at that latitude in 3 days, not this afternoon. NAM, and to some degree GFS(and its offspring), and even UKMET seem to hint at this. 3 days out you really have to pay attention to the players set to be on the stage and in my unprofessional opinion, the stage is set for the ridge to build back. This is also supported by the SLOW, SLOW forecasted motion forecasted for the southest gulf. That tells me steering will be a little weak. Take home message, watch the trends, particularly in the 3-4 day time frames on the models...they are trending stronger with the reach it seems, which I think poses a greater through for the NGOM that we may have been seeing all along.
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Re: ATL: Tropical Storm Fay South of Cuba

#6793 Postby cpdaman » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:27 pm

srainhoutx wrote:
wxman57 wrote:I'd say it looks better than it did this morning, but why use a satellite estimate for winds when recon is in there measuring lower winds? I know they didn't sample the NE quad, and the winds could be up to 45-50 in there. I still have serious doubts about this making hurricane strength before moving inland, though I still have 75 mph as max intensity on my latest forecast. Probably a small area of hurricane force winds over the water, if any.

New consensus models are left of Tampa now. Let's see if they swing back to the east tonight. They've moved back and forth every few runs the past few days. I'm getting tired of Fay.


Agreed wxman57. This continues to be a real pain from a forecasting point.


ya honestly the center not moving much in the last few hours has me concerned , looking at the wv and visible and radar it appears her motion has slowed quite a bit, could it be that perhaps the reason the models shifted so much west, was the initial motion progged (from late morn-to early afternoon) when she appeared to be racing west/wnw at 17 mph, i mean i am skeptical that she will continue as far west as the next advisory position takes her. and right now she is loving those bath water temps south of cuba.
Last edited by cpdaman on Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#6794 Postby KWT » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:27 pm

I think if it takes the NHC track wxman57 theres IMO probably better then 50-50 chance of this being a hurricane, upper conditions improve no end and granted they still aren't amazing compared to present conditions its a good deal better.
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#6795 Postby wxwonder12 » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:28 pm

what impact on the models or possible landfall would a n and west movement compared to a wnw movement be as of now?
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Re: ATL: Tropical Storm Fay South of Cuba

#6796 Postby Jason_B » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:29 pm

Hopefully the NW turn occurs tonight so we can let this "more west" talk deteriorate. I have plenty of faith in the NHC's cone, don't like second guessing them.
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#6797 Postby KWT » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:29 pm

Certainly is a pain, I think the the models showing the exact same set-up but the faster motion when it was moving around 280-290 allowed it go further west than expected before the turn.
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#6798 Postby CalmBeforeStorm » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:30 pm

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/east/nwatl/loop-wv.html

Looking at water vapor I don't see how she could go anywhere but north in the short term. Maybe the Euro was right.
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Re: ATL: Tropical Storm Fay South of Cuba

#6799 Postby cpdaman » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:31 pm

WXMAN 57 i haven't heard this discussed much , but what is the forecasted size (tropical storm winds, etc) of the storm as it approaches cuba later and fl after that, i ask because i think should it be forecast to be small (we need to watch for some explosive development tonite (given it's slow down) as well as in the fla straits/ SE gom.

cause obvisouly small compact storms can be amazingly difficult to forecast intensity, so i'm wondering is the core of this storm forecast to be tiny, medium, large? great thanks
Last edited by cpdaman on Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: ATL: Tropical Storm Fay South of Cuba

#6800 Postby jaxfladude » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:32 pm

MiamiensisWx wrote:THE FORECAST TRACK SITUATION IS SIMILAR TO THAT OF HURRICANE CHARELY
FROM AUGUST 2004...IN THAT A SMALL CHANGE IN THE TRACK OF THE STORM
COULD MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE IN THE EVETUAL LANDFALL LOCATION. THE
NHC WIND SPEED PROBABILITIES PRODUCT SHOWS ABOUT AN EQUAL CHANCE OF
HURRICANE-FORCE WINDS FOR THE ENTIRE WEST COAST OF THE FLORIDA
PENINSULA.

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/text/refresh/MIATCDAT1+shtml/172105.shtml

Good discussion from the NHC has been compiled...



Not good, not good at all....I am praying now.....
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