A rant and a reminder.

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A rant and a reminder.

#1 Postby Category 5 » Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:09 am

Before I get to my point, I'd like to take the time to call out everyone who called Fay a bust, overhype, etc, etc (you all know who you are). You all win this.

Image

Which brings me to my point, to call a system a bust, no matter what the strength, is just plain ignorant. Obviously Allison taught us nothing. People hear the word "Hurricane" and go crazy, but yawn at Tropical Storms such as Fay. Heck, you'd never know that 73 and 74mph had only a 1mph difference between them, because they're spoken of like they're light years apart.

I'm glad those who wrote this off on this board weren't from Melbourne, because they'd of gotten one nasty reminder, one that may have cost them dearly. I hope people take a long hard look at Fay and realize, that 74mph is only a number, not a standard.

My prayers and support go to those affected by Fay.
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#2 Postby RL3AO » Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:14 am

One of my biggest pet peeves is this huge psychological difference between a 60kt TS and a 65kt hurricane. 60kt (75mph) tropical storm? Meh. Its just a tropical storm. 65kt (75mph) hurricane. OH MY GOD ITS A HURRICANE!
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Re: A rant and a reminder.

#3 Postby FireBird » Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:56 am

Much agreed. Where I live in Trinidad we've only ever had close calls in the past 10-15 yrs and nothing direct. Yet last year, 3 people died from storm surges caused by Dean and Felix well before they reached cane status. I realise more and more that the storms are doing a dizzy on the mets - they've become harder to predict in an already inexact science. Why - just a few hours of heavy rainfall can cause REAL trouble for those of us in the islands. So though we all get excited about a cane, the fact that there's any bad weather makes it a potential threat to life and limb. My best wishes go out to those in FL and environs. Keep your chin up!! :P
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Re: A rant and a reminder.

#4 Postby dwg71 » Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:04 pm

Category 5 wrote:Before I get to my point, I'd like to take the time to call out everyone who called Fay a bust, overhype, etc, etc (you all know who you are). You all win this.

Image

Which brings me to my point, to call a system a bust, no matter what the strength, is just plain ignorant. Obviously Allison taught us nothing. People hear the word "Hurricane" and go crazy, but yawn at Tropical Storms such as Fay. Heck, you'd never know that 73 and 74mph had only a 1mph difference between them, because they're spoken of like they're light years apart.

I'm glad those who wrote this off on this board weren't from Melbourne, because they'd of gotten one nasty reminder, one that may have cost them dearly. I hope people take a long hard look at Fay and realize, that 74mph is only a number, not a standard.

My prayers and support go to those affected by Fay.


It's a counter balance effect for those that claim everything is going to be the next Katrina or next Andrew. Fay was a bad storm, but it wasnt near the level of destruction and death of the major storms of recent memory. And Fay was not even close to TS Allison, which attributed to 41 deaths. Fay has attributed to 5 deaths. 3 in auto accidents, two drownings from being out in the surf. The auto accidents were attributed to wet roads, which occur daily in the us. I'm not down playing Fay, but the over hyping is much worse than any underhyping. The media is to blame.

Just my two cents, flame away.

I hope all are safe in Florida.
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Re: A rant and a reminder.

#5 Postby gatorbabe79 » Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:54 pm

I am in Jacksonville and had to go out on an errand. The damage is unbelievable, so many trees down, widespread flooding, the river is overrunning its banks, there are 77,000 customers in Duval county alone without power. This is as bad as any recent "real" hurricane I've seen in north Florida. My boathouse has collapsed, my dock is breaking up and floating away, and I am on the east shore of the ST Johns river, where the wind was not direct. We are still having intermittent rain and wind and several Tornado warnings have just been issued. So please don't take these mild little tropical storms lightly. This place is a disaster.
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Re: A rant and a reminder.

#6 Postby Ptarmigan » Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:58 pm

Fay is a huge rainmaker and flood problem. TS are seriously underestimated and I have been through that with Allison and Erin. So my condolences to anyone affected by Fay in Florida.
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#7 Postby KWT » Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:16 pm

Yeah of course a fast moving TS whilst able to cause issues won't be as bad as a powerful hurricane a slow moving TS will dump huge rains and cause alot of dangerous flooding issues.
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#8 Postby DanKellFla » Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:29 pm

"It's just a tropical storm." ugh
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Re: A rant and a reminder.

#9 Postby invest man » Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:52 pm

It has been my observation that ts's & td's, although they may not carry the weight of the winds of a hurricane, they have a tendancy to drop massive amounts of rain and can and does cause massive amounts of inland flooding which just happens to be the leading cause of death in any tropical system. IM
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Re: A rant and a reminder.

#10 Postby abajan » Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:39 am

dwg71 wrote:It's a counter balance effect for those that claim everything is going to be the next Katrina or next Andrew. Fay was a bad storm, but it wasnt near the level of destruction and death of the major storms of recent memory. And Fay was not even close to TS Allison, which attributed to 41 deaths. Fay has attributed to 5 deaths. 3 in auto accidents, two drownings from being out in the surf. The auto accidents were attributed to wet roads, which occur daily in the us. I'm not down playing Fay, but the over hyping is much worse than any underhyping. The media is to blame.

Just my two cents, flame away.

I hope all are safe in Florida.
There are reports of Fay killing more than 50 people in the Caribbean.
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Re: A rant and a reminder.

#11 Postby cpdaman » Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:53 pm

fay was a mean mother of a tropical storm


but does that mean lots of tropical stroms aren't a joke (like that n.c joke earlier this year)


there are no absolute's !!

, each storm is different and has different impact, and as we know tropical stroms can be incredibly damaging , usually through flooding, but also due to winds , especially in areas with wet soil and easily knocked over trees.
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Re: A rant and a reminder.

#12 Postby MGC » Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:48 pm

Tropical cyclones pose multiple threats. These threats come as incredible rainfall (Fay, Allison), incredible winds (Andrew), incredible surges (Katrina) or any combination of both. Fay is a killer and any TC can cause death and destruction......MGC
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#13 Postby Derek Ortt » Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:50 pm

real storm conditions (like what Miami experienced with Katrina... and by storm I mean sustained winds greater than 47KT) are very severe indeed.

Not to mention the rainfall
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Re: A rant and a reminder.

#14 Postby Sihara » Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:02 am

gatorbabe79 wrote:I am in Jacksonville and had to go out on an errand. The damage is unbelievable, so many trees down, widespread flooding, the river is overrunning its banks, there are 77,000 customers in Duval county alone without power. This is as bad as any recent "real" hurricane I've seen in north Florida. My boathouse has collapsed, my dock is breaking up and floating away, and I am on the east shore of the ST Johns river, where the wind was not direct. We are still having intermittent rain and wind and several Tornado warnings have just been issued. So please don't take these mild little tropical storms lightly. This place is a disaster.


This is what is scary to me. If a tropical storm could produce the damage gatorbabe79 observed, just imagine what a full-fledged major hurricane could do to the same region. Or Melbourne - as devastating as the flooding was, and it was mind-boggling! - imagine if it had been accompanied by 130mph+ winds.

I'm not one of the "it's only a tropical storm" people. As was pointed out, Fay caused quite a number of deaths across the Caribbean, in addition to the deaths in the U.S. But for a tropical storm to do this much damage, I think we need to look at measures we should take to prevent even worse from occurring in a major hurricane.

Everyone focuses on building standards, but that's not the whole problem. Can storm-water drainage be improved to cope with street flooding? Is it possible, I don't know. Why are large, unstable trees planted in residential lots, some are "protected" because they're native but they're a complete disaster in hurricanes. So much damage done by laurel oaks falling on homes that otherwise might have made it through, yet municipalities continue to encourage planting them - why?!! And this is one thing that is EASY to fix! but no one addresses this, regardless of the constant unnecessary damage done every hurricane season.
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#15 Postby Clipper96 » Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:41 am

There should be a big, ugly black granite monument built on every Florida beach which will be continually inscribed with the names of "Darwin Award" contestants. Inset will be a computer screen behind 2" plexiglass, in which beach-goers contemplating surfing in tropical-storms can bring up YouTube videos of award-winners meeting grisly fates.
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Re: A rant and a reminder.

#16 Postby jinftl » Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:53 pm

Part of the misperception about tropical storms is that people greatly overestimate the winds they think they have experienced in either a tropical storm or hurricane. Most people would be shocked as to what sustained winds of 50mph with gusts to 70mph are really like.

Similarly, people were shocked in south florida when Wilma came through with sustained cat 1/low end cat 2 winds. Third costliest storm in U.S. history!

But on the other hand, a storm like Fay does remind us that not every storm that has forecast models pointing at some ultra-vulnerable spot like New Orleans during some of their runs have to materialize, making every such storm another katrina.
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Re: A rant and a reminder.

#17 Postby Category 5 » Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:50 pm

Another stat to remember

A majority of Hurricane Deaths are caused by freshwater flooding. Not wind or surge.
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#18 Postby DanKellFla » Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:52 pm

My company stayed open even though we were under a Tropical Storm Warning in Palm Beach Gardens. Why? Because if they closed they would have to pay us. We were given the option of staying home if we wanted. But, we had to use a sick/vacation day. This time, they got away with it. It was bad, but not too bad and nobody got hurt coming into work.
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Re:

#19 Postby Sihara » Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:16 pm

DanKellFla wrote:My company stayed open even though we were under a Tropical Storm Warning in Palm Beach Gardens. Why? Because if they closed they would have to pay us. We were given the option of staying home if we wanted. But, we had to use a sick/vacation day. This time, they got away with it. It was bad, but not too bad and nobody got hurt coming into work.


That's kinda sad - it's cheap to make employees choose between risking the flooding or using up PTO. Really, I don't think companies should stay open during TS warnings, unless they're essential. I recall hearing some grocery store during an imminent east coast hurricane threat, mandating all employees be at work, no excuse for that.

One day, someone will get hurt after being pressured to go in during an approaching storm.
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Re: A rant and a reminder.

#20 Postby Sihara » Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:29 pm

jinftl wrote:Part of the misperception about tropical storms is that people greatly overestimate the winds they think they have experienced in either a tropical storm or hurricane. Most people would be shocked as to what sustained winds of 50mph with gusts to 70mph are really like...


I think I even saw an instance of that in one of these thread during Fay.

I was in a tropical storm that did have sustained 50mph winds, nothing more than that, and I kind of doubt the gusts were as high as 70, couldn't say. I was amazed at how strong 50mph really is (confession - I stupidly opened the door and stepped out on the balcony... and struggled to get back in LOL). There was debris blowing in the wind, stuff snapping, wild.

Isn't it true that 50mph is much less than half the strength of 100mph winds? Something about how the windspeed increases exponentially - what exactly does that mean?
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