ATL HANNA: Extratropical - Discussion

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KWT
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Re: ATL: Tropical Storm Hanna in Central Atlantic

#501 Postby KWT » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:22 am

BigA wrote:Is there any idea when(if) the shear will let up over Hanna? The NHC seems to predict that the ULL will move southwestward, but any estimations on the time frame?


not easy to know really to be honest, the models don't really handle ULL so its not impossible that side of things ddon't go to plan.
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Re: ATL: Tropical Storm Hanna in Central Atlantic

#502 Postby Bocadude85 » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:22 am

GFS shows her doing a loop and diving to the sw after
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Re: ATL:Tropical Depression Eight in Central Atlantic

#503 Postby jlauderdal » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:22 am

HurricaneBelle wrote:
fci wrote:Dr. Lyons also told us that Jeanne would head to Bermuda. And what know what actually happened....

Predicting Bermuda for storms in Hanna's vicinity is the safest forecast you can make especially if you are not looking at models and are using climatology.

Not real wise to do all the time.


In fairness to Lyons, many of the global models at the time were also calling for Jeanne to scoot off to the NE, especially the GFS.

Of course Jeanne was the first thing I thought about when I saw the NHC discussion mention the GFS thinking Hanna would do likewise.


Maybe Lyons being the hurricane expert he is should explain the situation better, he is on twc so he has the extra 10 seconds to explain it..our local weather people in the morning have started laying out different tracks instead of just going with the nhc track and quite frankly they are doing a nice job with it, no scare tactics, just laying some different scenarios out educating the general public in greater depth than they used to and i think it helps with the complacency issue
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Re: ATL:Tropical Depression Eight in Central Atlantic

#504 Postby vacanechaser » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:26 am

jlauderdal wrote:
HurricaneBelle wrote:
fci wrote:Dr. Lyons also told us that Jeanne would head to Bermuda. And what know what actually happened....

Predicting Bermuda for storms in Hanna's vicinity is the safest forecast you can make especially if you are not looking at models and are using climatology.

Not real wise to do all the time.


In fairness to Lyons, many of the global models at the time were also calling for Jeanne to scoot off to the NE, especially the GFS.

Of course Jeanne was the first thing I thought about when I saw the NHC discussion mention the GFS thinking Hanna would do likewise.


Maybe Lyons being the hurricane expert he is should explain the situation better, he is on twc so he has the extra 10 seconds to explain it..our local weather people in the morning have started laying out different tracks instead of just going with the nhc track and quite frankly they are doing a nice job with it, no scare tactics, just laying some different scenarios out educating the general public in greater depth than they used to and i think it helps with the complacency issue



he almost seems to be a robot now... its a shame... they just dont seem to give him the time they should either... twc is just dreadful any more...


Jesse V. Bass III
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#505 Postby KWT » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:30 am

Bocadude85, looks Hanna will enter quite a complicated synoptic set-up, in some ways it reminds me of Betsy but early days to make any sort of comprasion like that yet!
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Re: ATL: Tropical Storm Hanna in Central Atlantic

#506 Postby Tampa DMB Fan » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:30 am

I have to say, I haven't watched TWC in a good 5 years.
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Re: ATL: Tropical Storm Hanna in Central Atlantic

#507 Postby cpdaman » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:33 am

perhaps the pro's at the NHC should learn to study/forecast ULL's a bit better, they can't be this unforecastable can they?!

also look at this shot, looks like we got a vulnerable little swirl in the big ocean, lets see what happens

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/flt/t2/loop-vis.html

now the WV

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/flt/t2/loop-wv.html

note the western and northern edge of the ULL appear to be shifting slightly west but the ULL center is still pretty much stalled, will we watching the ULL like a hawk
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#508 Postby gatorcane » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:33 am

The 12Z GFS is now on board with the Euro and BAMMS in trapping Hanna underneath a building Western Atlantic subtropical ridge.....depending upon some more runs later this afternoon with other globals and assuming they still call for a west bend...

I think we'll see the NHC bend the 5 day cone a bit more WSW for the 5pm EST advisory. Both the Euro and GFS are showing a bend to the west then SW or even SSW...

Betsy is a system that comes to mind at this point as others have noted...

that's my call at this point.

Too early to say if the East Coast of Florida gets impacted or even the CONUS for that matter.
Last edited by gatorcane on Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re:

#509 Postby Bocadude85 » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:34 am

KWT wrote:Bocadude85, looks Hanna will enter quite a complicated synoptic set-up, in some ways it reminds me of Betsy but early days to make any sort of comprasion like that yet!


Exactly what I was thinking.. reminds me of Betsy or Jeanne and to a lesser extent Andrew
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Re: ATL: Tropical Storm Hanna in Central Atlantic

#510 Postby Windy » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:36 am

Is that really the center exposed on vis, or is that the ULL? If that's the center rocketing away from the convection, wouldn't Hanna pretty much be done for?
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Re: ATL: Tropical Storm Hanna in Central Atlantic

#511 Postby sfwx » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:40 am

Hurricane Betsy August 26, 1965 to September 12, 1965 ( GREAT Year!! :D )

http://weather.terrapin.com/wx/DisplayS ... dtype=JAVA
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Re: ATL: Tropical Storm Hanna in Central Atlantic

#512 Postby jlauderdal » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:40 am

Tampa DMB Fan wrote:I have to say, I haven't watched TWC in a good 5 years.


i glance at it once in awhile, the ratings are good and they were just sold off at a big price tag so they are doing something right, hardcore weather nuts like us arent really their audience so no surprise so few of us have anything real nice to say.

ok back on topic before i get a PM attack from management
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Re: ATL: Tropical Storm Hanna in Central Atlantic

#513 Postby Brent » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:42 am

Not very lady-like

Image
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Re: ATL: Tropical Storm Hanna in Central Atlantic

#514 Postby HURAKAN » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:44 am

jlauderdal wrote:
Tampa DMB Fan wrote:I have to say, I haven't watched TWC in a good 5 years.


i glance at it once in awhile, the ratings are good and they were just sold off at a big price tag so they are doing something right, hardcore weather nuts like us arent really their audience so no surprise so few of us have anything real nice to say.

ok back on topic before i get a PM attack from management


The criticism is very similar to when we watch a movie and we liked it but movie critics say it was bad. In the case of TWC we criticize them because we know when they screw up and that gets us furious, but the general audience that knows very little about weather, they don't know what was right or wrong!
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Re: ATL: Tropical Storm Hanna in Central Atlantic

#515 Postby fci » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:46 am

Tampa DMB Fan wrote:I have to say, I haven't watched TWC in a good 5 years.


It's a shame what has happened with TWC.
I used to almost set my alarm for 50 minutes past the hour to see John Hope and depended on TWC for my information.
Now, they are almost all "readers" and it seems like they rush Dr. Lyons off about as quickly as they put him on.
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Re: ATL: Tropical Storm Hanna in Central Atlantic

#516 Postby SWFLA_CANE » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:47 am

Brent wrote:Not very lady-like

Image


Looks like if Hanna doesn't get some distance from the ULL it will not be much of a storm. Shear is totally exposing the LLC. I can't imagine Hanna making it more then a few days in conditions like this.
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#517 Postby gatorcane » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:48 am

conditions should improve for Hanna. This is just a short-term set back that she will see for the next couple of days :uarrow:
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Re: ATL: Tropical Storm Hanna in Central Atlantic

#518 Postby vacanechaser » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:50 am

HURAKAN wrote:
jlauderdal wrote:
Tampa DMB Fan wrote:I have to say, I haven't watched TWC in a good 5 years.


i glance at it once in awhile, the ratings are good and they were just sold off at a big price tag so they are doing something right, hardcore weather nuts like us arent really their audience so no surprise so few of us have anything real nice to say.

ok back on topic before i get a PM attack from management


The criticism is very similar to when we watch a movie and we liked it but movie critics say it was bad. In the case of TWC we criticize them because we know when they screw up and that gets us furious, but the general audience that knows very little about weather, they don't know what was right or wrong!


its not just that... they dont give the weather anymore... its all those horrible shows over and over again.. just go back to giving the weather... hell, i have seen those shows run during a major hurricane approaching the coast... they say it is because the hurricane is not hitting the rest of the country.. so i guess they feel people are tuning in to watch storm stories and not the hurricane!!!


Jesse V. Bass III
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Hurricane Intercept Research Team
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Re: ATL: Tropical Storm Hanna in Central Atlantic

#519 Postby eastcoastFL » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:51 am

Looks like hanna maybe paying our area a visit early next week. I am going to get all my stuff together today before everyone else finds out about her.
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Re:

#520 Postby vacanechaser » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:53 am

gatorcane wrote:conditions should improve for Hanna. This is just a short-term set back that she will see for the next couple of days :uarrow:



exactly.. and i have seen worse storms than she.. in terms of shear... the upper low is gonna be moving on and getting out of the way.. may even start to enhance outflow down the line...



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