ATL HANNA: Extratropical - Discussion

Moderator: S2k Moderators

Message
Author
User avatar
gatorcane
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 23691
Age: 47
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:54 pm
Location: Boca Raton, FL

Re: Re:

#3101 Postby gatorcane » Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:46 pm

CalmBeforeStorm wrote:
tallywx wrote:
TreasureIslandFLGal wrote:
Couldn't a delay in her movement result in a west shift to her path, not an easterly shift, due to the progression of the ridge further west?


Not necessarily. First of all, most models didn't have this moving for another 15 hours or so anyway, so any repositioning now to the SE, as long as it starts moving then, would just shift the track to the east.


The 12z NOGAPS is the west outlier with a s, Fla landfall.


The NGFDL also makes landfall in South Florida and GFS swipes South Florida just to the east (about 25-30 miles offshore the Palm Beaches).
0 likes   

txwatcher91
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 1498
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:29 pm

Re:

#3102 Postby txwatcher91 » Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:47 pm

KWT wrote:Indeed the simple equation is the longer it takes to lift out from its current slow drift southwards the further south the threat shifts. To what extent right now remains to be seen however.


Remember though that the models don't show Hanna starting to move NW until noon tomorrow.
0 likes   

User avatar
CourierPR
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 1335
Age: 71
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:53 pm
Location: Pompano Beach, Florida

Re: Re:

#3103 Postby CourierPR » Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:47 pm

tallywx wrote:
TreasureIslandFLGal wrote:
Couldn't a delay in her movement result in a west shift to her path, not an easterly shift, due to the progression of the ridge further west?


Not necessarily. First of all, most models didn't have this moving for another 15 hours or so anyway, so any repositioning now to the SE, as long as it starts moving then, would just shift the track to the east.


Tallywx, please see NEXRAD's comments about a building subtropical ridge. I've also taken note of your location with regard to your forecast.
Last edited by CourierPR on Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
0 likes   

User avatar
AZRainman
Tropical Storm
Tropical Storm
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:48 pm
Location: Sonoran Desert
Contact:

#3104 Postby AZRainman » Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:48 pm

Image
GFS runs Hanna close to Florida...can't rule out landfall at this stage.
Last edited by AZRainman on Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
0 likes   

User avatar
gatorcane
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 23691
Age: 47
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:54 pm
Location: Boca Raton, FL

#3105 Postby gatorcane » Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:49 pm

The TWC cone now includes SE Florida, yesterday the cone was well north of it.....around NE FL.

http://www.weather.com/maps/news/atlsto ... om=hp_news
Last edited by gatorcane on Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
0 likes   

User avatar
MyrtleBeachGal
Tropical Depression
Tropical Depression
Posts: 60
Age: 58
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 6:46 pm
Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
Contact:

#3106 Postby MyrtleBeachGal » Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:49 pm

You know everyone down here is preparing when you see the football games being moved from Friday night to Thursday night and Wednesday night - we take our high school football games very serious!

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com Our news has been updating all day.
0 likes   

tallywx
Category 2
Category 2
Posts: 790
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 10:19 am
Location: Raleigh/Durham, NC

Re: Re:

#3107 Postby tallywx » Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:54 pm

CourierPR wrote:
tallywx wrote:
TreasureIslandFLGal wrote:
Couldn't a delay in her movement result in a west shift to her path, not an easterly shift, due to the progression of the ridge further west?


Not necessarily. First of all, most models didn't have this moving for another 15 hours or so anyway, so any repositioning now to the SE, as long as it starts moving then, would just shift the track to the east.


Tallywx, please see NEXRAD's comments about a building subtropical ridge. I've also taken note of your location with regard to your forecast.


Oh, I agree completely with NEXRAD's comments about a building ridge. If Hanna sits around longer than expected, then IMO Florida landfall is a certainty. All I'm saying is that IF Hanna only stalls for another 15 hours or so, then she will not have stalled any longer than the models are foreseeing. Thus, the models at that juncture are already accurately depicting the sort of ridge that Hanna will be dealing with when forecasting her movement. Therefore, any eastward shift of Hanna now off those model tracks, just as long as she starts moving NW in 15 hours as the current models show, would merely shift those model tracks eastward laterally.

and btw, I note YOUR location when responding to your post.
0 likes   

bosag
Tropical Storm
Tropical Storm
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2003 5:02 pm
Location: jupiter florida
Contact:

Re: ATL: Tropical Storm Hanna in SE Bahamas

#3108 Postby bosag » Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:55 pm

In regard to lowering the lake levels (i.e lower levels in canals?). I heard on the news at noon (WPTV), that the army corp of engineers decided not to lower the lake because it was within the safe limits (under 15 ft). Did I get that right?

Barb
0 likes   

User avatar
deltadog03
Professional-Met
Professional-Met
Posts: 3580
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 6:16 pm
Location: Macon, GA

#3109 Postby deltadog03 » Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:56 pm

http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/tropic2/real ... oom=&time=

Shear NW of her (gus' outflow) is really starting to back off and move SW. Notice all of the -40's now. Once, she gets clear of that.......
0 likes   

User avatar
hial2
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 809
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2003 9:20 pm
Location: Indian trail N.C.

Re: ATL: Tropical Storm Hanna in SE Bahamas

#3110 Postby hial2 » Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:57 pm

bosag wrote:In regard to lowering the lake levels (i.e lower levels in canals?). I heard on the news at noon (WPTV), that the army corp of engineers decided not to lower the lake because it was within the safe limits (under 15 ft). Did I get that right?

Barb


The don't want to possibly repeat the same mistake made in 2006..
0 likes   

NEXRAD
Category 1
Category 1
Posts: 370
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:05 am
Location: South Florida

Re: ATL: Tropical Storm Hanna in SE Bahamas

#3111 Postby NEXRAD » Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:57 pm

From what I'm seeing in the model outputs, the more north (and hence more east) track Hanna takes is partially caused by Hanna's own influence on how far west the Atlantic ridge builds. A shortwave (along with Gustav's mid level remnant) and the tropical storm will be two factors working against the western peripheries of that ridge. Should Hanna stay farther south or remain more stationary, then one of the two factors working against the ridge will be out of the picture, at least temporarily. What would happen then is that the shortwave becomes the big player in determining the ridge set-up. The shortwave/Gustav's remnant look more likely to steer north of the ridge rather than erode it, given Hanna staying farther south.

- Jay
0 likes   

User avatar
gatorcane
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 23691
Age: 47
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:54 pm
Location: Boca Raton, FL

#3112 Postby gatorcane » Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:59 pm

I don't think the NHC has any choice than to nudge the track west again at the 5pmEST advisory....based on model trends today.
0 likes   

User avatar
deltadog03
Professional-Met
Professional-Met
Posts: 3580
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 6:16 pm
Location: Macon, GA

#3113 Postby deltadog03 » Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:59 pm

SFC CTR VISABLE FROM FL
RAIN BAND NE

From the VDM...Amazing on how much shear there is that the MLC and LLC appear to be fairly close to one another.
0 likes   

lbvbl
Tropical Storm
Tropical Storm
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:24 am

Re:

#3114 Postby lbvbl » Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:00 pm

gatorcane wrote:I don't think the NHC has any choice than to nudge the track west again at the 5pmEST advisory....based on model trends today.


What has changed since yesterday to cause the shift in the track?
0 likes   

User avatar
Lowpressure
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 2032
Age: 58
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 9:17 am
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina

Re:

#3115 Postby Lowpressure » Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:01 pm

deltadog03 wrote:SFC CTR VISABLE FROM FL
RAIN BAND NE

From the VDM...Amazing on how much shear there is that the MLC and LLC appear to be fairly close to one another.

That does not bode well at all once the shear relaxes. This has the potential to strenghten a lot.
0 likes   

User avatar
deltadog03
Professional-Met
Professional-Met
Posts: 3580
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 6:16 pm
Location: Macon, GA

Re: ATL: Tropical Storm Hanna in SE Bahamas

#3116 Postby deltadog03 » Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:02 pm

LOL....I am posting too much right now..Sorry!

Look at the low level convergence...WOW...

http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/tropic2/real ... oom=&time=

Obviously we know how well the upper divergence is....

http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/tropic2/real ... oom=&time=

I don't know If I have ever seen those that high before.
0 likes   

User avatar
Weatherboy1
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 1189
Age: 49
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2004 1:50 pm
Location: Jupiter/Sarasota, FL

#3117 Postby Weatherboy1 » Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:03 pm

I too think the NHC 5 p.m. track will show a westward shift, though not much of one. It appears that the NOGAPS' big shift (relatively speaking, of course), plus what appears to be a minor shift west in the euro, could be enough to have the path crossing the Western tip or center of grand bahama island rather than the eastern tip.
0 likes   

User avatar
Lowpressure
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 2032
Age: 58
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 9:17 am
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina

Re:

#3118 Postby Lowpressure » Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:04 pm

gatorcane wrote:I don't think the NHC has any choice than to nudge the track west again at the 5pmEST advisory....based on model trends today.

You are way too worried about tracks in the short term. This was not supposed to start a NW movement until tomorrow. Florida should be watching this anyway whether in the cone or not. Were this goes is anyones guess until she makes a difinitive move NW.
0 likes   

NEXRAD
Category 1
Category 1
Posts: 370
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:05 am
Location: South Florida

Re: Re:

#3119 Postby NEXRAD » Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:04 pm

lbvbl wrote:
gatorcane wrote:I don't think the NHC has any choice than to nudge the track west again at the 5pmEST advisory....based on model trends today.


What has changed since yesterday to cause the shift in the track?


Well, one factor for certain is that Hanna is situated around 160 to 170 miles south-southeast of where the TPC forecasted the storm to be as of their 11AM Monday forecast package. The storm has continually edged farther south than the TPC track, however the actual TPC track isn't really all that different.

What has happened is the guidance envelope has shifted slightly west and consolidated compared with this time yesterday. This may be a reflection of Hanna's farther south location bodes well for returned ridging to the north - the ridge has less to fight between the tropical storm and the upper trough, but that's only a guess.

- Jay
0 likes   

User avatar
gatorcane
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 23691
Age: 47
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:54 pm
Location: Boca Raton, FL

#3120 Postby gatorcane » Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:06 pm

:uarrow:

I agree but for all we know it will shift back right again for the 18Z and 00Z guidance later....
0 likes   


Return to “2008”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests