ATL HANNA: Extratropical - Discussion

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hial2
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#3721 Postby hial2 » Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:28 am

capepoint wrote:If I am reading this correctly, I see a pro-met and several other folks saying Hannah does not really exsist? Thats good because I don't really feel like preparing for a storm today. I think I'll go surfing instead. I live about a mile from the ocean so if Hannah is nothing more than a nor'easter I guess we shouldn't have any problems.

Question....Why are the media and the NHC center still calling this something that you guys say it is not?

Oh well, gonna grab the board and hit the beach. Might check back later to see if anything has changed. Glad to have storm2k to cut thru all the hype!


The NHC is the OFFICIAL entity...Please guide yourself by the NHC..we have a disclaimer!!!
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Re: ATL HANNA: Tropical Storm - Discussion

#3722 Postby tallywx » Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:29 am

yeah, so obviously it's abundantly clear right now that Hanna looks pathetic, but that's easy enough for us to observe. The more difficult (and pressing) question is what she'll do over the next 24 hours. Will she remain steady-state like this? Will she be able to position herself relative to the ULL in such a way that at the very least divergence over her increases to promote renewed convection? Let's remember, she still has a vigorous swirl, and a minimum pressure of 988-990 MB, so there are prerequisite ingredients for her to do SOMETHING if the mid- and upper levels cooperate a bit better.
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Re: ATL HANNA: Tropical Storm - Discussion

#3723 Postby NEXRAD » Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:32 am

It's better to be safe than sorry is my rule when taking care of the intensity estimates.

As for Hanna's appearance - whoa! - this morning I pulled up the satellite imagery and thought I was looking at some Alaska-region storm system. I'll have some light analysis in a few minutes.

- Jay
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Re: ATL HANNA: Tropical Storm - Discussion

#3724 Postby tpr1967 » Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:37 am

Just wondering any mets out there. What would be the movement of hanna now that she is
a shallower system(low level cloud swirl). Thanks.
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#3725 Postby KWT » Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:40 am

Yep Jay I suppose the NHC are still expecting a stronger system and I suppose its better to be safe than sorry...

However Hanna looks terrible right now, 35-40kts seems a fair estimate as of now but no doubt Hanna isn't looking impressive.
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Re: ATL HANNA: Tropical Storm - Discussion

#3726 Postby AZRainman » Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:47 am

Image
TROPICAL STORM HANNA INTERMEDIATE ADVISORY NUMBER 30A NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL AL082008 800 AM AST THU SEP 04 2008

MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS ARE NEAR 70 MPH...110 KM/HR...WITH HIGHER GUSTS. SLIGHT STRENGTHENING IS POSSIBLE DURING THE NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS...AND HANNA COULD BECOME A HURRICANE BEFORE REACHING THE SOUTHEAST U.S. COAST.
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Re: ATL HANNA: Tropical Storm - Discussion

#3727 Postby NEXRAD » Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:51 am

Hanna the "Ghost" Storm

Late Wednesday dry air intruded into Hanna's SW quadrant and subsequently filtered NE into the storm's convectively prefered eastern regions. Since then the dry air has greatly disrupted the storm, and newly formed deeper cells situated mostly well east of the low level circulation have shown limited longevity and very poor organization. Since about 11Z, new cells have begun firing nearer the storm's circulation center, but only one of these is showing much for deepening. With favorable divergence aloft, convergence near the surface and low level center, and more limited shear directly over Hanna's low level position, this convection has some opportunity to reorganize close to the storm center through midday.

The two biggest factors working against Hanna this morning are: 1) the ULL to the storm's SW, and 2) shear N of the storm.

Per IRWV, the upper low is situated farther east than was analyzed by the 12Z CIMSS or RUC/2. The ULL is situated just southeast of Andros Island, and this upper level feature has been pulling moisture northwest away from Hanna and has been dredging dry air Nward into the tropical storm. You can tell that the ULL is controlling the moisture fields near Hanna by the moisture band moving towards Florida (as of 9AM ET). The moisture band's curvature suggests that it is organized about the upper level feature. The shear generally north of Hanna is also helping to strip the tropical storm's moisture aloft, and on IRWV deep moisture formerlly associated with Hanna is streaming quickly north, now ahead of the trough over the West-Central Atlantic. A final possible longer-range factor is Ike; on the IRWV subsidence ahead of Ike seems to be eroding moisture fields NNE of Puerto Rico. Granted, this possible Ike-effect is likely quite minor compared to what's going on with the main factor, which is the ULL.

Two scenarios are likely for Hanna today. 1) The ULL pulls more west, as indicated by most guidance, and the resulting reduced influence on Hanna allows the tropical storm to rebound, or 2) Hanna's circulation becomes (or remains?) less influential over the deeper pattern over the SW Atlantic, which prompts the moisture fields to continue to organize more around the upper low and trough axis. This second scenario would yield a weaker tropical storm, and one that has more limited opportunity to restrengthen.

As for intensity, ship and buoy reports indicate sustained winds of 35 to 40 knots are still present at surface, though some of this might be a result of the tight pressure gradient between Hanna and a surface ridge to the system's north. The AM profiler over Nassau shows 50-knot winds in the mid-levels, but some of this might be related to shear rather than the TS.

- Jay
Last edited by NEXRAD on Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ATL HANNA: Tropical Storm - Discussion

#3728 Postby tolakram » Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:54 am

Image
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Re: ATL HANNA: Tropical Storm - Discussion

#3729 Postby wxman57 » Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:55 am

tpr1967 wrote:Just wondering any mets out there. What would be the movement of hanna now that she is
a shallower system(low level cloud swirl). Thanks.
\

Easy to measure the movement of the LLC when its exposed. 328 degrees at 16 kts past 2 hrs.
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Re: ATL HANNA: Tropical Storm - Discussion

#3730 Postby tpr1967 » Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:56 am

Thanks.

wxman57 wrote:
tpr1967 wrote:Just wondering any mets out there. What would be the movement of hanna now that she is
a shallower system(low level cloud swirl). Thanks.
\

Easy to measure the movement of the LLC when its exposed. 328 degrees at 16 kts past 2 hrs.
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#3731 Postby KWT » Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:59 am

Racing away then wxman57, 16kts at least should mean Hanna gets out of the way reasonably quickly.
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Re: ATL HANNA: Tropical Storm - Discussion

#3732 Postby NEXRAD » Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:00 am

tpr1967 wrote:Just wondering any mets out there. What would be the movement of hanna now that she is
a shallower system(low level cloud swirl). Thanks.


I'm not a pro', but given the low-level ridging north of Hanna and the deep easterly flow observed in the Florida raobs, I'd expect a strictly shallow Hanna to move between WNW and NW throughout the day.

- Jay
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Re: ATL HANNA: Tropical Storm - Discussion

#3733 Postby gatorcane » Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:02 am

Hanna looks very bad....

Hanna continues to give the NHC a tough time both on intensity forecasts and track.
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Re: ATL HANNA: Tropical Storm - Discussion

#3734 Postby NEXRAD » Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:08 am

One thing I think needs to be emphasized is that if Hanna has transitioned into some hybrid state then it may be possible for the storm to retain stronger winds than would otherwise be expected given the storm's appearance.

- Jay
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#3735 Postby HURAKAN » Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:29 am

Image

I hope JB is watching his historic storm taking shape. Oops, there goes another prediction.
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#3736 Postby OuterBanker » Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:34 am

Very good news for us. At least I can have my surgery tomorrow. Have to stay off feet for three days (should give me enough time before Ike). Kinda reminds me of Gabrielle from last year the went right over us after being stripped of convection. It was clear with a few high swirling clouds.
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#3737 Postby OuterBanker » Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:41 am

But who knows, she had been knocked down many times already and should have been ripped apart several days ago. Can she get up one more time (I figure she has to tomorrow to try). Stay tuned for; "As the Storm Turns".
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Re: ATL HANNA: Tropical Storm - Discussion

#3738 Postby NEXRAD » Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:44 am

Well, Hanna will be historic for me regardless of what it does - the storm reminds me of a mesoconvective cluster that died out over the North-Central Gulf Coast a number of years back. I watched as the system vanished from visible and IR imagery but remained as a "ghost" on IRWV. It was quite fascinating.

That mentioned, Hanna could regenerate or pull something unexpected, so it's still well worth monitoring.

- Jay
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#3739 Postby HURAKAN » Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:45 am

:uarrow: I agree. Hanna may not be done yet, but comparing it to Hugo and Andrew? I mean, your body shakes just to hear those names.
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#3740 Postby GaryOBX » Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:50 am

Hurricane Watch extended northward to Ocracoke Inlet as of the 11AM advisory.
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