ATL: IKE Discussion

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Weatherfreak000

Re: Re:

#9081 Postby Weatherfreak000 » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:28 am

Windy wrote:
Weatherfreak000 wrote:Yep...Gustav and Ike proved to me one important lesson in 2008.

Hurricanes that spend time over land rarely recover. The lesson remains true today as it was when Georges did this...

The core has been over the GOM for 36 hours...passed the Loop Current...and still cannot organize a nice core. It's incredible.


Barely recover? Do you see the pressure on Ike? It's plenty recovered, it's just now enormously unwound instead of curled up tight. I guess it depends on your definition of "recover". Is it a 150 mile wide storm with a 10 mile wide swath of tornado-like winds? No. But a 500 mile wide storm with a 150 to 200 mile wide swath of hurricane force winds is, in my opinion, "recovered".



Sorry you disagree here Windy, but a storm with Sub>940 MB pressure that is only a Category Two "By Name" OBVIOUSLY has some issues. :lol:

That's just me.
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Re:

#9082 Postby opera ghost » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:29 am

JenBayles wrote:I'm thinking the same thing David. We can't board our windows: 3 bays, and they're all recessed in brick. No wood frames to screw into for clips to grip. I figure our front rooms are hosed.


We have an entire wall of windows (french doors and flanking windows and even a picture window on top) that our apartment complex has specifically told us not to tape or board with an ornamental tree just outside. Luckily we have insurance- but we're preparing the living room as though the windows are a complete loss. Tarps over the furniture, moving everything we can out of the room etc.

This all feels very surreal. Usually the storm is starting to turn to go up or down the coast from us by this point- but I'm no longer sure that we'll have a miss. :(
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Re: ATL IKE: Category 2 - Discussion

#9083 Postby jinftl » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:29 am

the south tail almost looks like a strong cold front!

fasterdisaster wrote:
tolakram wrote:More organized? I can't tell what this is showing. A litle over 2 hours old at time of posting.



This shows the outer eyewall is almost the sole eyewall now but it also shows the openness on the northwest. I'd say 6 hours of keeping this strength, followed by maybe several hours of light strengthening and after that it should be able to strengthen considerably based on all indications once dry air and shear let up.
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#9084 Postby SunnyThoughts » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:29 am

I looked back through the last few pages to see if this had been posted, and couldn't find it...sorry if its a duplicate.

Category 2 Ike is larger and more powerful than Katrina Posted by: JeffMasters, 11:32 AM EDT on September 11

Hurricane Ike's winds remain at Category 2 strength, but Ike is a freak storm with extreme destructive storm surge potential. Ike's pressure fell rapidly last night to 944 mb, but the hurricane did not respond to the pressure change by increasing its maximum winds in the eyewall. Instead, Ike responded by increasing the velocity of its winds away from the eyewall, over a huge stretch of the Gulf of Mexico. Another very unusual feature of Ike is the fact that the surface winds are much slower than the winds being measured aloft by the Hurricane Hunters. Winds at the surface may only be at Category 1 strength, even though Ike has a central pressure characteristic of a Category 3 or 4 storm. This very unusual structure makes forecasting the future intensity of Ike nearly impossible. The possibilities range from a Category 1 storm at landfall--as predicted by the HWRF model--to a Category 4 storm at landfall, as predicted by the GFDL.

Ike is now larger than Katrina was, both in its radius of tropical storm force winds--275 miles--and in it radius of hurricane force winds--115 miles. For comparison, Katrina's tropical storm and hurricane force winds extended out 230 and 105 miles, respectively. Ike's huge wind field has put an extraordinarily large volume of ocean water in motion. When this swirling column of water hits the shallow waters of the Continental Shelf, it will be be forced up into a large storm surge which will probably rival the massive storm surge of Hurricane Carla of 1961. Carla was a Category 4 hurricane with 145 mph winds at landfall, and drove a 10 foot or higher storm surge to a 180-mile stretch of Texas coast. A maximum storm surge of 22 feet was recorded at Port Lavaca, Texas. Despite the fact that the center of Carla hit over 120 miles southwest of Houston, the hurricane drove a 15-foot storm surge into the bays along the south side of the city. I don't expect Ike will reach Category 4 strength, thus its maximum surge is not likely to reach the extreme values above 20 feet seen in Hurricane Carla. Like Carla, though, Ike will probably inundate a 180-mile stretch of Texas coast from Port O'Connor to just north of Galveston with a 10-15 foot storm surge. This will occur even if Ike is a Category 1 storm at landfall. The latest experimental storm surge forecast From NOAA's SLOSH model (Figure 1) shows a 10% chance that Ike's storm surge will exceed 15-21 feet at Galveston. The Galveston sea wall is 17 feet high, so may get overtopped.

The amount of water Ike has put in motion is about 50% greater than what Katrina did, and thus we can expect Ike's storm surge damage will be similar to or greater than Katrina's. The way we can estimate this damage potential is to compute the total energy of Ike's surface winds (kinetic energy). To do this, we must look at how strong the winds are, and factor in the areal coverage of these winds. Thus, we compute the Integrated Kinetic Energy (IKE) by squaring the velocity of the wind and summing over all regions of the hurricane with tropical storm force winds or higher. This "Integrated Kinetic Energy" was recently proposed by Dr. Mark Powell of NOAA's Hurricane Research Division as a better measure of the destructive power of a hurricane's storm surge than the usual Category 1-5 Saffir-Simpson scale. For example, Hurricane Katrina hit Mississippi as a strong Category 3 hurricane, yet its storm surge was more characteristic of a Category 5 storm. Dr. Powell came up with a new scale to rate potential storm surge damage based on IKE (not to be confused with Hurricane Ike!) The new scale ranges from 1-6. Katrina and Wilma at their peaks both earned a 5.1 on this scale (Figure 2). At 9:30am EDT this morning, Ike earned a 5.6 on this scale, the highest kinetic energy of any Atlantic storm in the past 40 years.

http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMa ... amp=200809
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Re: ATL IKE: Category 2 - Discussion

#9085 Postby Ptarmigan » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:30 am

Is Hurricane Ike the lowest pressure that is not a major hurricane since it has a central pressure of 944 mb and 100 mph winds?
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Re: Re:

#9086 Postby Txdivermom » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:32 am

Windy wrote:
tallywx wrote:
JenBayles wrote:Cy-Fair ISD IS having school tomorrow. What idiots!


http://www.cfisd.net/key/2008/key_091008ike.pdf

That's the most idiotic thing I've heard. As someone who has a law degree, I can say that they would be MAJORLY liable if someone gets hurt.

DISCLAIMER: THIS POST IS NOT MEANT TO CONSTITUTE OFFICIAL OR UNOFFICIAL LEGAL ADVICE OF ANY SORT.


I contacted the school's superintendant and board. This is apparently old information (though they've yet to update their website.) Here was the superintendent's reply:

Thank you for your advice, but the message that you are citing was accurate yesterday (Wednesday). Our district is closed on Friday and we will have no after school activities today.

I do consult with sources that are more credible than excitable media meteorologists; those in the know with BP/Amoco and the gas pipeline companies in Houston provide us with up-to-date information.


Dr. David Anthony, superintendent
Cypress-Fairbanks ISD


Well one would think the first thing they would do is get it on their website. I still think...What IDIOTS!!! (And I should know...my son graduated from Cy Creek and my daughter is Jr. there.)
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Re:

#9087 Postby DESTRUCTION5 » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:32 am

SunnyThoughts wrote:I looked back through the last few pages to see if this had been posted, and couldn't find it...sorry if its a duplicate.

Category 2 Ike is larger and more powerful than Katrina Posted by: JeffMasters, 11:32 AM EDT on September 11

Hurricane Ike's winds remain at Category 2 strength, but Ike is a freak storm with extreme destructive storm surge potential. Ike's pressure fell rapidly last night to 944 mb, but the hurricane did not respond to the pressure change by increasing its maximum winds in the eyewall. Instead, Ike responded by increasing the velocity of its winds away from the eyewall, over a huge stretch of the Gulf of Mexico. Another very unusual feature of Ike is the fact that the surface winds are much slower than the winds being measured aloft by the Hurricane Hunters. Winds at the surface may only be at Category 1 strength, even though Ike has a central pressure characteristic of a Category 3 or 4 storm. This very unusual structure makes forecasting the future intensity of Ike nearly impossible. The possibilities range from a Category 1 storm at landfall--as predicted by the HWRF model--to a Category 4 storm at landfall, as predicted by the GFDL.

Ike is now larger than Katrina was, both in its radius of tropical storm force winds--275 miles--and in it radius of hurricane force winds--115 miles. For comparison, Katrina's tropical storm and hurricane force winds extended out 230 and 105 miles, respectively. Ike's huge wind field has put an extraordinarily large volume of ocean water in motion. When this swirling column of water hits the shallow waters of the Continental Shelf, it will be be forced up into a large storm surge which will probably rival the massive storm surge of Hurricane Carla of 1961. Carla was a Category 4 hurricane with 145 mph winds at landfall, and drove a 10 foot or higher storm surge to a 180-mile stretch of Texas coast. A maximum storm surge of 22 feet was recorded at Port Lavaca, Texas. Despite the fact that the center of Carla hit over 120 miles southwest of Houston, the hurricane drove a 15-foot storm surge into the bays along the south side of the city. I don't expect Ike will reach Category 4 strength, thus its maximum surge is not likely to reach the extreme values above 20 feet seen in Hurricane Carla. Like Carla, though, Ike will probably inundate a 180-mile stretch of Texas coast from Port O'Connor to just north of Galveston with a 10-15 foot storm surge. This will occur even if Ike is a Category 1 storm at landfall. The latest experimental storm surge forecast From NOAA's SLOSH model (Figure 1) shows a 10% chance that Ike's storm surge will exceed 15-21 feet at Galveston. The Galveston sea wall is 17 feet high, so may get overtopped.

The amount of water Ike has put in motion is about 50% greater than what Katrina did, and thus we can expect Ike's storm surge damage will be similar to or greater than Katrina's. The way we can estimate this damage potential is to compute the total energy of Ike's surface winds (kinetic energy). To do this, we must look at how strong the winds are, and factor in the areal coverage of these winds. Thus, we compute the Integrated Kinetic Energy (IKE) by squaring the velocity of the wind and summing over all regions of the hurricane with tropical storm force winds or higher. This "Integrated Kinetic Energy" was recently proposed by Dr. Mark Powell of NOAA's Hurricane Research Division as a better measure of the destructive power of a hurricane's storm surge than the usual Category 1-5 Saffir-Simpson scale. For example, Hurricane Katrina hit Mississippi as a strong Category 3 hurricane, yet its storm surge was more characteristic of a Category 5 storm. Dr. Powell came up with a new scale to rate potential storm surge damage based on IKE (not to be confused with Hurricane Ike!) The new scale ranges from 1-6. Katrina and Wilma at their peaks both earned a 5.1 on this scale (Figure 2). At 9:30am EDT this morning, Ike earned a 5.6 on this scale, the highest kinetic energy of any Atlantic storm in the past 40 years.

http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMa ... amp=200809


<choke> <Choke> Ohh my...
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Re: ATL IKE: Category 2 - Discussion

#9088 Postby dwg71 » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:33 am

Ptarmigan wrote:Is Hurricane Ike the lowest pressure that is not a major hurricane since it has a central pressure of 944 mb and 100 mph winds?


Whats even more impressive is its 944 with about 85mph winds, per NOAA recon plane that couldnt justify the 100mph.
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#9089 Postby shah8 » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:34 am

Wilma had the lowest pressure for non-major status hurricane, I believe.
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Re: ATL IKE: Category 2 - Discussion

#9090 Postby Ptarmigan » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:35 am

dwg71 wrote:
Whats even more impressive is its 944 with about 85mph winds, per NOAA recon plane that couldnt justify the 100mph.


Gees, that's the lowest pressure in a Category 1 hurricane. :eek:
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Re:

#9091 Postby ConvergenceZone » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:36 am

Weatherfreak000 wrote:Yep...Gustav and Ike proved to me one important lesson in 2008.

Hurricanes that spend time over land rarely recover. The lesson remains true today as it was when Georges did this...

The core has been over the GOM for 36 hours...passed the Loop Current...and still cannot organize a nice core. It's incredible.



That's why I think this may not make it to major status...It's had its chances, so no need to think that all of the sudden it's going to start organizing when it's best conditions are going to be behind it soon...

True, a cat 1 or 2 storm can still be bad, but nowhere near the devastation of a cat 3 or cat 4 cane......Now if it's a high end cat 3 or 4, now you are talking Historic.....
Last edited by ConvergenceZone on Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#9092 Postby dwg71 » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:36 am

http://www.atmos.washington.edu/~ovens/ ... nhanced+12

Im not sure what an ouflow boundry is, so I'm asking what do you call what Ike just spit out to the east.
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#9093 Postby PTrackerLA » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:37 am

This is very disturbing from Dr. Masters:

"Dr. Powell came up with a new scale to rate potential storm surge damage based on IKE (not to be confused with Hurricane Ike!) The new scale ranges from 1-6. Katrina and Wilma at their peaks both earned a 5.1 on this scale (Figure 2). At 9:30am EDT this morning, Ike earned a 5.6 on this scale, the highest kinetic energy of any Atlantic storm in the past 40 years."
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#9094 Postby KWT » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:39 am

CZ, don't be so quick to doubt, if this can get a single eyewall make no mistake this will be a major, if it can't, then instead its going to hammer a *huge* area with cat 1/2 winds and probably cause just as much, if not more damage then if it was a tight system making landfall...

Underestimate a large cat-2 at your own mistake!

Lets say Ike has just himself go in terms of size, rather then pull itself inwards and tighten itself.
Last edited by KWT on Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#9095 Postby shah8 » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:40 am

Outflow boundaries are best seen by visible.

Not an outflow boundary.

What *is* interesting is that the larger eye does seem to be on pace for formation in that loop.
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Re:

#9096 Postby ConvergenceZone » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:41 am

KWT wrote:CZ, don't be so quick to doubt, if this can get a single eyewall make no mistake this will be a major, if it can't, then instead its going to hammer a *huge* area with cat 1/2 winds and probably cause just as much, if not more damage then if it was a tight system making landfall...

Underestimate a large cat-2 at your own mistake!



KWT, I don't underestimate it at all, just trying to find a positive spin in a cat 1 or cat 2 as opposed to 3 or 4
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Re: ATL IKE: Category 2 - Discussion

#9097 Postby RBDnhm » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:41 am

If I recall correctly, Humberto (which hit central/north Texas coast) may be what you are referring to. It was something like the most rapid intensification to a hurricane from a depression in the Gulf.

survived alica wrote:Hurricanes usually intensify close to the texas coast right? I remember Alica did and another storm I can't remember which one. could Ike do the same?
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Re: Re:

#9098 Postby cpdaman » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:41 am

the lower pressure of the storm combined with it's massive windfield yet moderate winds remind me of a monster pacific low (albeit one is warm core, the other cold core)
Last edited by cpdaman on Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
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#9099 Postby O Town » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:42 am

Image
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#9100 Postby Weatherfreak000 » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:42 am

Ike is looking absolutely horrible...it has not organized in what seems like 24 hours...doesn't even look close to organizing..

I still believe it will make Category Three soon...but a 2 at landfall. The good ole dry air off the Gulf coast will have it's way devouring Ike's circulation.
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