ATL: IKE Discussion

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fasterdisaster
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Re: ATL IKE: Category 2 - Discussion

#9481 Postby fasterdisaster » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:00 pm

Jijenji wrote:
fasterdisaster wrote:
jinftl wrote:Won't be hard at all for Ike to earn a place on this list...I believe Jeff Masters made an estimate earliert that this could be a $10 to $30 billion damage cost event...

Costliest known Atlantic hurricanes as of 2007
(2007 USD) Cost
(billions) Name Year
$81.2 Hurricane Katrina
$38.1 Hurricane Andrew
$30.4 Hurricane Wilma
$18.1 Hurricane Ivan
$16.2 Hurricane Charley
$15.23 Hurricane Agnes
$14.1 Hurricane Hugo
$10.5 Hurricane Rita
$10.4 Hurricane Frances
$9.35 Hurricane Betsy


This is adjusted for inflation just so everyone knows.


I don't think that's accurate. Those figures you listed are in 2007 dollars.


That's what adjusted for inflation means :wink:
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Re: ATL IKE: Category 2 - Discussion

#9482 Postby Texas Snowman » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:00 pm

Here's a couple of things to consider:

First, Gov. Perry did a good thing when he said "Get out of Galveston now." But Galveston is only a part of the storm surge equation.

Jeff Masters' said that the latest computations show that it's possible that a surge of 27-30 feet could come into portions of Houston!

Those people must "leave now" as well - I hope they understand that message.

The second thing is this - given this potential Katrina-esque, Cat 5 storm surge potential with a Cat 2 hurricane - I hope that emergency management officials will evac every person from Galveston and the surge prone portions of Houston.

Don't leave anybody behind - law enforcement, EMS, etc - because that might mean certain death.

All of this is my unofficial opinion, of course.
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Re: Re:

#9483 Postby Tireman4 » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:01 pm

Jijenji wrote:
HouTXmetro wrote:No offense to others but let's just hope Ike weakens or the track continues to shift east. Less people will be affected. I know that's no consolation to the Louisiana folks.


It always bothers me when people wish storms to go "somewhere else". I'm sure the people that live "somewhere else" would really appreciate that.

How about we just hope it weakens.


Or just goes poof.
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Re: ATL IKE: Category 2 - Discussion

#9484 Postby jinftl » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:01 pm

NHC stated

THE OFFICIAL FORECAST HAS
BEEN NUDGED SLIGHTLY TO THE RIGHT...BUT IS STILL JUST LEFT OF THE
MODEL CONSENSUS. IT IS WORTH NOTING THAT THE AVERAGE 36-HOUR
OFFICIAL FORECAST ERROR IS ABOUT 80 NMI.

Current track is horrible for Houston/Galveston. Even a track 80 miles to the left would be very bad for surge and wind...a track 80 miles to the right of current track would be good...possibly very good. What could be good for Houston would be worse for Port Arthur and SW LA.

Brent wrote:Image

Image
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Re: ATL IKE: Category 2 - Discussion

#9485 Postby Blown Away » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:01 pm

Hopefully for Galveston/Houston that track will continue nudging E and put that area on the W side of Ike. In the big picture it would be better not to have Houston on the east side of Ike.
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Re: ATL IKE: Category 2 - Discussion

#9486 Postby Clint_TX » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:02 pm

an eye is comming soon me thinks
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Re: ATL IKE: Category 2 - Discussion

#9487 Postby gatorcane » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:03 pm

Blown_away wrote:Hopefully for Galveston/Houston that track will continue nudging E and put that area on the W side of Ike. In the big picture it would be better not to have Houston on the east side of Ike.


I don't even want to know what is going to be left after Ike passes through Houston/Galveston......

the real thing is here. The dreadful day that everybody hoped would be a *long* time for now for that area has arrived I'm afraid.

but note the NHC mentions an 80 NM error in the exact track...so anybody in the cone, be safe.
Last edited by gatorcane on Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ATL IKE: Category 2 - Discussion

#9488 Postby MiamiensisWx » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:03 pm

Blown_away wrote:Hopefully for Galveston/Houston that track will continue nudging E and put that area on the W side of Ike. In the big picture it would be better not to have Houston on the east side of Ike.

I'm sure the residents affected by Rita and Humberto will be pleased...

There is nothing worse than repetitive pounding of your area during a short period... I remember 2004 for SE FL and the Treasure Coast with Frances and Jeanne.

There is NO good scenario with Ike.
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Re: Re:

#9489 Postby Texashawk » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:03 pm

RL3AO wrote:MAXIMUM WATER LEVELS FORECAST:

SHORELINE OF MATAGORDA AND GALVESTON BAYS...15 TO 20 FEET

GULF-FACING COASTAL AREAS FROM MATAGORDA TO HIGH ISLAND INCLUDING
GALVESTON ISLAND...12 TO 16 FEET

LIFE THREATENING INUNDATION LIKELY!

ALL NEIGHBORHOODS...AND POSSIBLY ENTIRE COASTAL COMMUNITIES...
WILL BE INUNDATED DURING HIGH TIDE. PERSONS NOT HEEDING
EVACUATION ORDERS IN SINGLE FAMILY ONE OR TWO STORY HOMES WILL
FACE CERTAIN DEATH. MANY RESIDENCES OF AVERAGE CONSTRUCTION
DIRECTLY ON THE COAST WILL BE DESTROYED. WIDESPREAD AND
DEVASTATING PERSONAL PROPERTY DAMAGE IS LIKELY ELSEWHERE. VEHICLES
LEFT BEHIND WILL LIKELY BE SWEPT AWAY. NUMEROUS ROADS WILL BE
SWAMPED...SOME MAY BE WASHED AWAY BY THE WATER. ENTIRE FLOOD PRONE
COASTAL COMMUNITIES WILL BE CUTOFF. WATER LEVELS MAY EXCEED 9 FEET
FOR MORE THAN A MILE INLAND. COASTAL RESIDENTS IN MULTI-STORY
FACILITIES RISK BEING CUTOFF. CONDITIONS WILL BE WORSENED BY
BATTERING WAVES. SUCH WAVES WILL EXACERBATE PROPERTY DAMAGE...WITH
MASSIVE DESTRUCTION OF HOMES...INCLUDING THOSE OF BLOCK
CONSTRUCTION. DAMAGE FROM BEACH EROSION COULD TAKE YEARS TO
REPAIR.


Somebody needs to read that statement, word for word, over the air, preferably someone like Mayor White or Gov. Perry.
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Re: ATL IKE: Category 2 - Discussion

#9490 Postby fasterdisaster » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:04 pm

Jijenji wrote:
fasterdisaster wrote:
That's what adjusted for inflation means :wink:


No. That includes inflation. You would have to use base dollars to adjust for inflation. For instance, I believe the Okechobee or Labor Day hurricane is the most costly, followed by Katrina at 2nd.


Is this the chart you're using?

1 “Miami” 1926 $157 billion
2 “Galveston” 1900 $99.4 billion
3 Katrina 2005 $81.0 billion
4 “Galveston” 1915 $68.0 billion
5 Andrew 1992 $55.8 billion
6 “New England” 1938 $39.2 billion
7 “Pinar del Río” 1944 $38.7 billion
8 “Okeechobee” 1928 $33.6 billion

If so, that's adjusted for both inflation and cultural changes since the time it hit. Basically, how much would it cost if it hit today.
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MiamiensisWx

Re: ATL IKE: Category 2 - Discussion

#9491 Postby MiamiensisWx » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:05 pm

MiamiensisWx wrote:
Blown_away wrote:Hopefully for Galveston/Houston that track will continue nudging E and put that area on the W side of Ike. In the big picture it would be better not to have Houston on the east side of Ike.

I'm sure the residents affected by Rita and Humberto will be pleased...

There is nothing worse than repetitive pounding of your area during a short period... I remember 2004 for SE FL and the Treasure Coast with Frances and Jeanne.

There is NO good scenario with Ike.

There are MORE areas than Houston/Galveston proper... there's Bay City, Beaumont, Port Arthur, High Island, Bolivar Point, League City, and others in the immediate area.

A very extensive and continuous swath will be affected, as previously mentioned.
Last edited by MiamiensisWx on Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ATL IKE: Category 2 - Discussion

#9492 Postby jinftl » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:05 pm

Just levels the comparisons...otherwise i assue you that you would not see betsy as #10 on list....certainly gives a proper appreciation and resepect for that storm event though.

Costliest known Atlantic hurricanes as of 2007
(2007 USD) Cost
(billions) Name Year
$81.2 Hurricane Katrina
$38.1 Hurricane Andrew
$30.4 Hurricane Wilma
$18.1 Hurricane Ivan
$16.2 Hurricane Charley
$15.23 Hurricane Agnes
$14.1 Hurricane Hugo
$10.5 Hurricane Rita
$10.4 Hurricane Frances
$9.35 Hurricane Betsy
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#9493 Postby pablolopez26 » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:06 pm

From NHC: A SLIGHT BEND OF THE TRACK TO THE LEFT IS EXPECTED
PRIOR TO THE BEGINNING OF RECURVATURE.

I think thats about as far east as that track is going to take. Maybe a nudge making the center line right over Houston instead of its left.

Good luck
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#9494 Postby KWT » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:06 pm

MiamiensisWx, yep this one will at the very least be stable upon landfall and possibly even strengthen if it decides to sort its inner core out right before landfall, which would obviously be the worst case...

As fasterdisaster shows, note where the 2 Galveston hurricanes came in terms of damage for today, whilst Ike will be weaker then those two hopefully, that gives an idea of what is possible.
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Re: ATL IKE: Category 2 - Discussion

#9495 Postby jinftl » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:07 pm

chart i used was a straightforward adjustment for inflation....the one you show is more accurate because it accounts for that plus the fact, for example, that miami has many times more people and buildings to damage than in '26. Scary results...now I see why Miami fears a repeat of '26.....wow...twice the damage of katrina possible.

fasterdisaster wrote:
Jijenji wrote:
fasterdisaster wrote:
That's what adjusted for inflation means :wink:


No. That includes inflation. You would have to use base dollars to adjust for inflation. For instance, I believe the Okechobee or Labor Day hurricane is the most costly, followed by Katrina at 2nd.


Is this the chart you're using?

1 “Miami” 1926 $157 billion
2 “Galveston” 1900 $99.4 billion
3 Katrina 2005 $81.0 billion
4 “Galveston” 1915 $68.0 billion
5 Andrew 1992 $55.8 billion
6 “New England” 1938 $39.2 billion
7 “Pinar del Río” 1944 $38.7 billion
8 “Okeechobee” 1928 $33.6 billion

If so, that's adjusted for both inflation and cultural changes since the time it hit. Basically, how much would it cost if it hit today.
Last edited by jinftl on Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Re:

#9496 Postby WxGuy1 » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:07 pm

jinftl wrote:would a landfall to the east of galveston reduce the storm surge threat some for houston/galveston area?


Yes, depending upon how far east it slides. If it takes a Rita-like surprise turn, Galveston may be spared from the big surge (afterall, winds would be offshore, so the wind would actually work to REDUCE the level of the water, though the low pressure will keep it up). However, the current forecast looks to be a worst-case scenario for the Galveston area. If it makes landfall where it is forecast to make landfall, it will be catastrophic, particularly if the winds bump up to Cat 3. Remember how there was massive surge in MS and AL when Kartina came ashore, but you didn't really hear anything about the surge along the central LA coast? That's the importance of being on the right (MS/AL) or left side of the center (central/western LA coast). In this case, it will be extremely important to watch any wobbles in the last 6 hours prior to landfall, as even 20-30 miles shifts may have a massive impact on surge and flooding in and around Galveston. Ike's surge will affect a very large portion of the TX and LA coastline to the right of the path.

Gustav could have been catastrophic for New Orleans (Katrina-II) a few weeks ago, but it ended up passing just far enough to the southwest that the surge didn't overtop the levees (some waves did lap over the walls/levees, however, showing you how close the situation was to be another massive event). May we be so lucky so as to have Ike's surge miss the largest population centers (no offense to those in smaller towns that will be affected).

Recon suggests a temporary W-WNW motion between the last two center passes if I'm seeing them on Google Earth correctly.
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Re: ATL IKE: Category 2 - Discussion

#9497 Postby fasterdisaster » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:09 pm

jijenji, this is the top 10 when not adjusted:

Katrina 81.2B
Andrew 26.5B
Wilma 20.6B
Charley 15.0B
Ivan 14.2B
Rita 11.3B
Frances 8.9B
Hugo 7B
Jeanne 6.9B
Allison 5B

However Gustav will place in there somewhere (probably #4-7)
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Re: ATL IKE: Category 2 - Discussion

#9498 Postby N2Storms » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:09 pm

I can only imagine what horrific pics we are going to see Sunday and for many days after of all the damage that this storm will inflict...I sincerely hope and pray for no loss of life and that the casualties are limited to property and possessions...
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Re: ATL IKE: Category 2 - Discussion

#9499 Postby Tireman4 » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:10 pm

AS THE UPPER HIGH OVER TEXAS MOVES
NORTHEASTWARD...A SLIGHT BEND OF THE TRACK TO THE LEFT IS EXPECTED
PRIOR TO THE BEGINNING OF RECURVATURE.

Interesting.
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Re: IKE / Obs / Preparations / Web Cams / Texas / SW Louisiana

#9500 Postby msbee » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:10 pm

some Galveston web cams
sea looks pretty rough already
http://www.galveston.com/webcams/

http://www.matagordabay.com/
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