2008-09 Texas Winter Weather Thread

[Ed Mahmoud]

My Mexican Fan Palms laught at temps in the 20s, my pygmy date palm has some foliage burn if we get below 30ºF, but has survived 7 years, I gave up on lemon trees in 2004, not even frost paper wrapping saved them. One appeared to die, sprung new from the roots that Spring, but died for good the following Winter, but the satsuma orange seems pretty oblivious to lows in the 20s.


I suspect since the pygmy gets foliage burn in the 20s, it would be in serious trouble during prolonged 20s or an excursion into the teens. Ditto the orange tree.


I don't have bananas, but the fronds get killed back almost every Winter in my parts, and spring forth anew each Spring. The bananas in HOU, in the urban heat island and on GLS I've seen produce fruit, implying they haven't been frozen. My wife's Tio Jose grows grapefruit in his backyard, near Hobby Airport. Warmer there than Northern Harris County.


Not sure what storm surge flooding and salt water did to the banana plants of Galveston.

[srainhoutx]

1983 did significant damage throughout ALL the Houston Metro and beyond concerning tropical plants. It was sad to see some many "old palms" being chopped down in the weeks that followed that event.

[gboudx]

I think next weekend is a tad too soon...

When I read wxman57's comments, I also assumed he was referring to this coming Sunday into next Thursday, or the 12/14-12/18 timeframe. Are you saying he's probably referring to the 12/21-12/25 timeframe?

[Extremeweatherguy]

It is this upcomig weekend into next week that everyone is talking about. 12/14 - 12/18.

[Ed Mahmoud]

I think next weekend is a tad too soon...

When I read wxman57's comments, I also assumed he was referring to this coming Sunday into next Thursday, or the 12/14-12/18 timeframe. Are you saying he's probably referring to the 12/21-12/25 timeframe?

The models seem to show the good stuff about a week away...Sunday seems a tad early.

[Ed Mahmoud]

I know shallow cold air moves faster than the GFS usually predicts, but for the Arctic front to be moving into the Cowboy game, the GFS would have to be several states wrong.



Possible, I guess, just doesn't seem likely.

[gboudx]

I think next weekend is a tad too soon...

When I read wxman57's comments, I also assumed he was referring to this coming Sunday into next Thursday, or the 12/14-12/18 timeframe. Are you saying he's probably referring to the 12/21-12/25 timeframe?

The models seem to show the good stuff about a week away...Sunday seems a tad early.

So Big O may be cold out in Irving Sunday night, but not threat of driving on icy roads after watching another Cowboys defeat. Gotcha.

[jasons2k]

The freeze of 1983 killed Mexican Fans all the way down to the Rio Grande Valley.

Here is a good article on that:

http://www.raingardens.com/psst/articles/artic03.htm

The author, Richard Travis, is an S2k member as well.

This freeze (1983) may forever be known as the freeze that killed the palm trees in the Valley. Anyone who lived in the Valley before 1983 remembers well the thousands of tall slender Washingtonia robusta lining the local roads for mile after mile. The dead stumps were a sad sight on the Valley skyline for several years afterwards -- some still remain to this day. Citrus also received a good beating, the worst since 1951. The Valley got such a cleaning from 1983 it would almost make the worst freeze of the century seem anticlimactic.

A freeze of that magnitude would pretty much wipe-out Houston now. There are queen palms everywhere now and they are hardy to the low 20's. I have 4 majesty palms in my yard, which is really pushing it for north of Houston, but I do have freeze wrap that could buy me a few degrees. They did fine last year with our 26 degrees but that's getting too close for comfort. Without protection they are rated at 28F...

[jasons2k]

I know shallow cold air moves faster than the GFS usually predicts, but for the Arctic front to be moving into the Cowboy game, the GFS would have to be several states wrong.

Possible, I guess, just doesn't seem likely.

As Wxman and others have pointed out, the GFS is a couple of states wrong and low near Colorado is an error.

[cctxhurricanewatcher]

The freeze of 1983 killed Mexican Fans all the way down to the Rio Grande Valley.

Here is a good article on that:

http://www.raingardens.com/psst/articles/artic03.htm

The author, Richard Travis, is an S2k member as well.

This freeze (1983) may forever be known as the freeze that killed the palm trees in the Valley. Anyone who lived in the Valley before 1983 remembers well the thousands of tall slender Washingtonia robusta lining the local roads for mile after mile. The dead stumps were a sad sight on the Valley skyline for several years afterwards -- some still remain to this day. Citrus also received a good beating, the worst since 1951. The Valley got such a cleaning from 1983 it would almost make the worst freeze of the century seem anticlimactic.

A freeze of that magnitude would pretty much wipe-out Houston now. There are queen palms everywhere now and they are hardy to the low 20's. I have 4 majesty palms in my yard, which is really pushing it for north of Houston, but I do have freeze wrap that could buy me a few degrees. They did fine last year with our 26 degrees but that's getting too close for comfort. Without protection they are rated at 28F...

What 1983 did not get, 1989 took care of six years later.

I fear the next time around with the citrus industry, what farmers came back after 83 and 89 might just throw in the towel. With the residential and commericial growth down there since those freeze events, some farmers might be swayed to sell their land instead of waiting for three years to get another crop in. Some of those orchirds are located in prime growth areas.

The Texas citrus industry would become a novelty more than something the would provide a significant impact on the ag economy.

[Ed Mahmoud]

I'd favor a cloudy snow or ice kind of cold, myself. Cold withot snow or ice is a waste, and an uncomfortable one, besides the cold, there is chapped lips, dry and itchy skin, and painful static shocks.

[jasons2k]

Not sure what storm surge flooding and salt water did to the banana plants of Galveston.

They turned brown but are coming back. Same with most of the live oaks, etc. They shed their leaves but are coming back. Most palms didn't even turn brown; they are just fine.

Some other species didn't do very well -- the magnolias and japanese loquat trees are dead. And suprisingly, almost all of the oleanders are toast as well, and Galveston famously had a lot of those....had being the operative word. There are a lot of dead plants, especially shrubs, all over the island.

[shibumi]

Not sure what storm surge flooding and salt water did to the banana plants of Galveston.

They turned brown but are coming back. Same with most of the live oaks, etc. They shed their leaves but are coming back. Most palms didn't even turn brown; they are just fine.

Some other species didn't do very well -- the magnolias and japanese loquat trees are dead. And suprisingly, almost all of the oleanders are toast as well, and Galveston famously had a lot of those....had being the operative word. There are a lot of dead plants, especially shrubs, all over the island.

Interesting - magnolias are pretty cold hardy (zones 7-9 with some cultivars good to zone 5) and Loquats are good to about 10 degrees.....for instance, Oklahoma City is in zone 7...

[Ed Mahmoud]

salt water poisoning issue, not a cold weather issue.

[shibumi]

:uarrow:

salt water poisoning issue, not a cold weather issue.

D'oh!

[Texas Snowman]

Anyone besides me notice that in 1983 we had a killer hurricane (Alicia) that visited the Houston/Galveston area and a historic and devastating freeze?

Here in 2008, so far we have a killer Hurricane Ike visiting the Houston/Galveston area and the threat of a major freeze?

Portastorm, you might find your kicking shoes!

Also, if you think it was bad in SE Texas, you should have tried living that historic 1983 freeze out up here in the Red River Valley where I live.

I was a senior in high school and we started the whole thing with 5-7" of snow the night before the last day of school prior to Christmas break - they made us go anyway! Only about half the school showed up and I remember the day for the epic between classes snowball fights, not the education I received that day!

Then it got cold - we went way over 200 consecutive hours w/below freezing weather in Grayson County causing all kinds of water pipes to break (including some city mains). Got down into the single digits a lot as I recall and there were a number of days with highs only in the teens.

Lake Texoma virtually froze over with the exception of the very middle of the lake - we're talking 89,000 acres and the 12th largest lake in America! I went duck hunting and we couldn't break the ice (myself and two others) to set out the decoys and we had to go home.

It only snowed a couple of times during the heart of the cold snap and for the most part they were nuisance type snows, just enough to blow around. The snow that started the event gradually lessened and by the end of the cold snap, it was just brown barren ground with a few snow patches remaining.

(We did have the threat of a blizzard right around Christmas though it never materialized - still remember Harold Taft talking about how rare that was for this part of the world on WBAP radio.)

[somethingfunny]

Anyone besides me notice that in 1983 we had a killer hurricane (Alicia) that visited the Houston/Galveston area and a historic and devastating freeze?

Here in 2008, so far we have a killer Hurricane Ike visiting the Houston/Galveston area and the threat of a major freeze?

Portastorm, you might find your kicking shoes!

Also, if you think it was bad in SE Texas, you should have tried living that historic 1983 freeze out up here in the Red River Valley where I live.

I was a senior in high school and we started the whole thing with 5-7" of snow the night before the last day of school prior to Christmas break - they made us go anyway! Only about half the school showed up and I remember the day for the epic between classes snowball fights, not the education I received that day!

Then it got cold - we went way over 200 consecutive hours w/below freezing weather in Grayson County causing all kinds of water pipes to break (including some city mains). Got down into the single digits a lot as I recall and there were a number of days with highs only in the teens.

Lake Texoma virtually froze over with the exception of the very middle of the lake - we're talking 89,000 acres and the 12th largest lake in America! I went duck hunting and we couldn't break the ice (myself and two others) to set out the decoys and we had to go home.

It only snowed a couple of times during the heart of the cold snap and for the most part they were nuisance type snows, just enough to blow around. The snow that started the event gradually lessened and by the end of the cold snap, it was just brown barren ground with a few snow patches remaining.

(We did have the threat of a blizzard right around Christmas though it never materialized - still remember Harold Taft talking about how rare that was for this part of the world on WBAP radio.)

Texoma froze over?

I've only been living in Grayson County for about a year but thats crazy! I figure this winter won't be nearly as cold as that either but it would be really nice to see a repeat of last March.

[Texas Snowman]

Pretty much - only the main lake portion of Texoma didn't freeze up. Most of the lake's coves and its various lake arms did freeze up. But then again, we didn't get above freezing for nearly two weeks.

In Dallas, I think it was 295 consecutive hours below freezing, think it was 300 plus here.

I'll never forget jumping up and down on the ice (in very shallow water, that is) trying to get it to break (along with a high school coach and an Austin College football player I was hunting with) trying to get a hole opened up so that we could throw decoys out.

It was a huge cove, iced up as far as one could see, and we barely even cracked the ice.

I also have an older friend who ran an air boat across the ice every day for more than a week to get to an unfrozen spot that the ducks were using.

For what it's worth, I remember Harold Taft talking about a historic cold snap in Ft. Worth a number of years ago where people were actually driving cars out onto the ice because the lake had frozen.

Tx Snowman

[Texas Snowman]

Also, the 1983 freeze was devastating in S. Texas - nearly 70% of the citrus trees were lost and gazillions of inshore fish and marine organisms were killed (fish biologists battled ice as far south as Corpus Christi to get out and analyze the damage). It took years for the redfish and speckled trout to recover along the Coast after that freeze.

Tx Snowman

[Texas Snowman]

Here's some information on the 1983 freeze from the DFW NWS site:

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/fwd/december1983.htm

As for the 1989 freeze, it was no picnic either, just not as long in duration as the 1983 freeze.

Had several inches of snow here in N. Texas prior to Christmas, then the arctic air invaded.

On Christmas Eve, a huge fire engulfed a three story department store in Denison along with several other downtown buildings. Firefighters fought the blaze in nearly single digit temperatures and one firefighter lost his life during that blaze.

And on Christmas morning, the temperature bottomed out at - 2 below zero here in Sherman/Denison if memory serves correct.