Gaza Conflict

[Derek Ortt]

This opinion to carpet bomb Gaza was written nearly 2 years ago

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite? ... 2FShowFull

I will say this much... THAT would achieve victory. Remember, Egypt never made peace until Israel was in position to attack Cairo and potentially force the unconditional surrender of all of Egypt in 1973.

The enemies there only understand one language, brute force

[cycloneye]

Israel will escalate offensive against Hamas:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28573204/

[Derek Ortt]

about time Israel is stopping with this viedo game war and is starting a real war

[cycloneye]

Hamas Rocket Commander Killed

JERUSALEM (CNN) -- The Hamas commander in charge of launching rockets into Israel from the Gaza City area was killed Saturday by Israeli ground fire, the Israel Defense Forces said in a statement.

Amir Mansi was also the leading Hamas authority on the Grad long-range missile-launching system, the IDF said.

The use of Grad rockets has allowed Hamas to reach farther into Israel than in previous attacks. The rockets carry more explosives than the more primitive Qassam rockets typically used by Hamas, and some can travel as far as 25 miles.

The Israeli military said Mansi directed and actively fired dozens of rockets at Israel, killing and wounding Israeli civilians.

Mansi was spotted firing a rocket Saturday from the Jabel Rise area, east of Gaza City, during a ground force operation, the IDF said. Israeli forces opened fire, killing Mansi and wounding two other Hamas operatives, who were captured, the Israelis said.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast ... pstoryview

[cycloneye]

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert told his Cabinet that his country was close to reaching the goals of its military offensive in Gaza but "further patience is needed."

An Israeli envoy was expected to return to Cairo by Monday to talk to Egyptian officials who are trying to negotiate an end to the fighting between Israel and Hamas that began 15 days ago.

Israeli aircraft attacked at least 60 targets throughout Gaza overnight, including a mosque in southern Gaza allegedly used to store Hamas weapons and to train militants, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said Sunday.

Two Grad rockets launched in Gaza landed in the southern Israeli town of Beer Sheva causing some damage Sunday morning, but no injuries were reported, Israeli ambulance services said.

Meanwhile, Palestinian medical sources said four Palestinians were killed in Israeli attacks Sunday, including a pregnant woman. This would bring to at least 828 the number killed in Gaza since the start of the fighting, according to the medical sources.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast ... index.html

[Ed Mahmoud]

If Israel will be condemnded no matter what they do, they might as well win.



The Oldest Hatred.

Code: Select all

In Toronto, anti-Israel demonstrators yell “You are the brothers of pigs!”, and a protester complains to his interviewer that “Hitler didn’t do a good job.”

In Fort Lauderdale, Palestinian supporters sneer at Jews, “You need a big oven, that’s what you need!”

In Amsterdam, the crowd shouts, “Hamas, Hamas! Jews to the gas!”

In Paris, the state-owned TV network France-2 broadcasts film of dozens of dead Palestinians killed in an Israeli air raid on New Year’s Day. The channel subsequently admits that, in fact, the footage is not from January 1st 2009 but from 2005, and, while the corpses are certainly Palestinian, they were killed when a truck loaded with Hamas explosives detonated prematurely while leaving the Jabaliya refugee camp in another of those unfortunate work-related accidents to which Gaza is sadly prone. Conceding that the Palestinians supposedly killed by Israel were, alas, killed by Hamas, France-2 says the footage was broadcast “accidentally.”

In Toulouse, a synagogue is firebombed; in Bordeaux, two kosher butchers are attacked; at the Auber RER train station, a Jewish man is savagely assaulted by 20 youths taunting, “Palestine will kill the Jews;” in Villiers-le-Bel, a Jewish schoolgirl is brutally beaten by a gang jeering, “Jews must die.”

...


[MGC]

Reported on Fox News this morning that Hamas rockets hit a school in Israel today. I see no reason for Israel to call off the dogs. Israel must hammer Hamas into submission. The only outcome Israel must accept is total defeat of Hamas. Israel must ignore the media as they are mostly against Israel......MGC

[Derek Ortt]

target the Palestinian children.

The civilians are no better than the terrorists. If they dont oppose the terrorists, they are the terrorists

[Ed Mahmoud]

target the Palestinian children.

The civilians are no better than the terrorists. If they dont oppose the terrorists, they are the terrorists

Unlike Muslims, who intentionally use their children as human shields, an attack Israel from the schools, the Israelis are too civilized to purposely kill children.

Palestinian children do wind up dead, but more because that is what Hamas wants.

[Derek Ortt]

but if Israel would make this awful step... the message would be sent very loud and clear

[MGC]

Israel is way too civilized to target children. They should show Hamas no quarter though.....MGC

[Stephanie]

target the Palestinian children.

The civilians are no better than the terrorists. If they dont oppose the terrorists, they are the terrorists

You scare me sometimes Derek.

[cycloneye]

Israelis push deeper into Gaza City

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip – Israeli ground forces made their deepest foray yet Sunday into Gaza's most populated area, with tanks rolling into residential neighborhoods and infantry fighting urban warfare in streets and buildings with Hamas militants who kept up their rocketing of southern Israel.

An Israeli army spokeswoman said residential neighborhoods in Gaza are riddled with homemade bombs and booby traps, including mannequins placed at apartment entrances to simulate militants and rigged to explode if soldiers approach.

The army "is advancing more into urban areas," said the spokeswoman, Maj. Avital Leibovich. "Since the majority of the Hamas militants are pretty much in hiding in those places, mainly urban places, then we operate in those areas."

Late Sunday, dense plumes of smoke from explosions rose over Gaza City and heavy gunfire was heard just south of the city. Early Monday, Israeli navy gunboats fired more than 25 shells at Gaza City, setting fires and shaking office buildings, including the local bureau of The Associated Press. The military said that in general, the targets are Hamas installations but had no immediate information about the shelling that began just after midnight.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090111/ap_ ... lestinians

[Derek Ortt]

target the Palestinian children.

The civilians are no better than the terrorists. If they dont oppose the terrorists, they are the terrorists

You scare me sometimes Derek.

and by not taking these extreme steps, the Israeli children will continue to be targeted

I am convinced that only very draconian action will ever bring some form of peace to the area. The 60 years of violence must end ASAP

[Ptarmigan]

but if Israel would make this awful step... the message would be sent very loud and clear

Hamas needs to be eradicated and it should be done a long time ago.

[x-y-no]

OK, this discussion need to to stick more to discussion of events and less to advocacy.

[Ed Mahmoud]

From the Danish "Mohammad cartoon" protests in London in 2006






The Palestinian religion isn't particularly peaceful.

From the Hamas Charter

The Islamic Resistance Movement is [also] one link in the chain of holy war in its confrontation with the Zionist invasion . [The movement] has had a strong connection with and is linked to the holy martyr [ shaheed ] Izzedine al-Qassam and his jihad warrior brethern [ mujahideen ] from among the Muslim Brotherhood since 1936 . From there it is closely related and connected to the next link [namely] the holy war of the Palestinians, and to the efforts and holy war of the Muslim Brotherhood in the war of 1948 and the jihad operations of the Muslim Brotherhood in 1968 and afterwards .

Actually, the links are distant from one another [in time], and the obstacles placed before the jihad warriors by the followers of Zionism stopped the jihad from continuing. Nevertheless the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to bring the promise of Allah to pass, no matter how long it takes. As the prophet [Muhammad], may the prayer of Allah and his blessing of peace be upon him, said: “The time [Judgment Day] will not come until Muslims fight the Jews and kill them and until the Jew hides behind the rocks and trees, and [then] the rocks and trees will say: ‘Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew hiding [behind me], come and kill him, except for the gharqad [salt-bush tree], so it is the tree of the Jews” ([Hadith] recorded in [the reliable collections of] Al-Bukhari and Muslim 24).

..........

[Diplomatic] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences to find a solution to the Palestinian problem, contradict the Islamic Resistance Movement's ideological position. Giving up any part whatsoever of [the land of] Palestine is like ignoring a part of [the Muslim] faith. A ccordingly, the particular nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is [also] part of its faith. On ganner of Allah over their homeland, [and it is written in the Qur'an that:] “Allah always prevails [in the end], although most people do not realize that ” ([Surah 12] Yusuf [Verse] 20).

Sometimes the call is heard for an international conference to discuss a solution for the [Palestinian] problem. There are those who agree [to that proposal] and those who reject it for one reason or another. They demand the fulfillment of a certain condition or conditions in return for their agreement to hold a conference and to participate in it. The Islamic Resistance Movement is very familiar with both sides of the conferences and their [negative] positions regarding Muslim interests in the past and present. Therefore, the Movement does not consider such frameworks capable of meeting the demands [of the Palestinians] or of restoring their rights or of bringing justice to the oppressed. Thus such conferences are but one of the means used by the infidels to prevail over Muslim land, and when have the infidels treated the faithful justly? [as it written in the Qur'an that:] “the Jews will never be pleased with you, nor will the Christians, until you have followed their religion. Say therefore, Allah's guidance is the only true guidance. But if you were to follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, then you would find no one to protect or guard you from Allah” ([Surah 2] Al-Baqarah [Verse] 120 ).

There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except jihad. Regarding the international initiatives, suggestions and conferences, they are an empty waste of time and complete nonsense . The Palestinian people are far too noble to have their future, rights and fate toyed with, [as the noble hadith states:] “The men of Al-Sham 33 are the scourge [of Allah] in his land. Through them he wreaks vengeance on whomever he wishes among his servants. It is forbidden for the hypocrites among them to overcome the true believers among them; but rather they will die in sorrow and grief” (told by Al-Tabarani 34 with a chain of transmitters to Muhammad, and by Ahmad [ibn Hanbal] with an incomplete chain of transmitters to Muhammad, which [i.e., the incomplete chain] may be the accurate record, but [only] Allah knows [the absolute truth]).

Any "peace treaty" will be only a "hudna", the Islamic fake peace, where Muslims losing a battle may negotiate a peace, but are expected to re-arm and break the truce when they have the military capability to win.

[x-y-no]

Any "peace treaty" will be only a "hudna", the Islamic fake peace, where Muslims losing a battle may negotiate a peace, but are expected to re-arm and break the truce when they have the military capability to win

We have reasonably successful peaceful relations with Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the UAE, Indonesia, etc. And other seemingly intractable situations involving terrorism (i.e. the Irish troubles) have been successfully resolved.

The fact is that all international relations are contingent - subject to changing priorities in the future.

[Ed Mahmoud]

The Egyptian state controlled press runs some pretty nasty stuff on a regular basis about the US. We send them a couple of billion dollars a year in foreign aid, and sell them weapons, and they pretend to like us.


Bill Clinton had to call of a CIA operation to kill Osama bin Laden in the 1990s, because it turned out one of the princes of the UAE was hunting in Afghanistan with OBL. This was after the African embassy bombings.


We protected the House of Saud from the Soviets, then Iraq, and now protect them from the Iranians.


Of course, all nations have interests more so than friendships, but even when the political parties in power between, say, the US, the UK, Canada and Australia are ideologically separated, relations between those countries remain friendly.

[somethingfunny]

Often times I think about WWII and how the German people were duped by Hitler. Most Germans disagreed with the Nazis but were too afraid to say anything because they would be killed or sent to the camps. After the war they were quick to beg the world for forgiveness for the sins of their countrymen, and deeply ashamed of their own complicity. The Hitler Youth on the other hand was made of children who came of age during the 30s and 40s and swore deep loyalty to Hitler during that time. I wonder what ever happened to that generation of Germans. I'm told that once they were shown that it was all propoganda and falsehoods, they came around as well. I don't know. When you talk to Germans today there is only one opinion of WWII, which is one of deep regret. But I wonder where those German SS Youth who ratted on their own parents for being Jewish sympathizers are today and how they really feel about the whole thing.

I hope the Muslim world can be rehabilitated in the same way, someday. Because if that can't be done, and 1 billion children truly believe this fundamentalist crap not because they were told to, but because that's the way they feel in their hearts....then Earth is doomed.