Plane down in Hudson River

[Dionne]

I didnt know planes could float either.

I heard in CNN that it's the fuel that is keeping the plane afloat.

A320 has outflow valves that can be closed. The A320 is also designed to separate from the engines during a ditch. There is some speculation that all propulsion was not lost.......just not enough to create lift.

[HURAKAN]

Code: Select all

03:26PM     40.80     -73.87     151     1800 level      New York TRACON
03:27PM    40.83    -73.87    174    2800 climbing    New York TRACON
03:27PM    40.86    -73.88    194    3200 climbing    New York Center
03:28PM    40.88    -73.90    202    2000 descending    New York TRACON
03:28PM    40.86    -73.93    215    1600 descending    New York Center
03:29PM    40.83    -73.95    194    1200 descending    New York TRACON
03:29PM    40.82    -73.97    191    1300 climbing    New York Center
03:30PM    40.78    -74.00    189    400 descending    New York TRACON
03:31PM    40.75    -74.02    153    300 descending    New York TRACON

You can see that at 3:29 PM the plane was able to climb 100 feet and between :30 & :31 it only descended 100 feet. So it was a gradual descent at the end.

[Dionne]

The 1200' versus the 1300' is the true elevation of the plane. "Climbing" at this point is misleading. The A320 was not "climbing".....that is the difference between the land elevation on the east side of the Hudson and the actual elevation of the river. Flight 1549 was at 194 kts and 191 kts at 3:29 PM. That is not climbing......you lose air speed you drop. Glide ratio on the A320 is 18:1. Flight 1549 gained 100' when the elevation of the earth dropped as Sully lined up on the Hudson for the ditch.

Another interesting note. Sully is a qualified glider pilot. Found that info on the PPrune site.

[weathermom]

Bunch of articles here at the NY Daily News http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2009/01/16/2009-01-16_ntsb_investigators_on_scene_to_probe_hud.html


I think it is nuts to even question that he could have made it to Teterboro with no engines. It is a small airport tucked into one of the most heavily populated areas of the state. Surrounded on all 4 sides by residential and industrial buildings, as well as major highways.

See here http://maps.google.com/maps?sourceid=navclient&gfns=1&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-14,GGLD:en&q=teterboro+airport&um=1&ie=UTF-8&split=0&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&resnum=5&ct=image

The areas with the least road density are the industrial areas with many buildings full of people and various potential industrial contaminants.


I had also read that he is a glider pilot, but couldn't remember where I read it.

[Rainband]

Hats off to this Guy and all involved. Great outcome!!!

[Jason Foster]

Two interesting semi-related facts.

For those in the DC area, this brought back memories of the Florida Flight 90 crash in the Potomac River, with much more severe consequences.

Also, this has been the most significant plane crash event in the United States since Oct. 11th, 2001 (yes, exactly one month after 9/11) with the plane that crashed into Jamaica Bay near NYC. That's not too bad in my book....a little over seven years....and this one didn't have any fatalities...I would say flighing is getting safer all the time (statistically).

[fwbbreeze]

I thought I would post a link to another video that showas a water landing that didnt turn out so well. This is a video of an Ethopian Airlines jet that was hijacked and ran out of fuel before crashing at sea. I think it is a tribute the Capt Sully and his efforts along with the crew on a safe water landing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Airlines_Flight_961

also here is a link to a picture that is said to be of the crash occurring yesterday. Incredible

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-182512

[somethingfunny]

Two interesting semi-related facts.

For those in the DC area, this brought back memories of the Florida Flight 90 crash in the Potomac River, with much more severe consequences.

Also, this has been the most significant plane crash event in the United States since Oct. 11th, 2001 (yes, exactly one month after 9/11) with the plane that crashed into Jamaica Bay near NYC. That's not too bad in my book....a little over seven years....and this one didn't have any fatalities...I would say flighing is getting safer all the time (statistically).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comair_Flight_5191

Last fatal commercial airline accident in the United States. (August 27, 2006) There have been other non-fatal accidents since then (remember the crash in Denver last month?) but still, nearly 2 1/2 years is an incredible record of safety. I remember in the 90s it seemed like one would fall out of the sky every year.

After the crash you're referring to in 2001 (it was November, and it crashed into a neighborhood, not the ocean) America's airlines have begun an unprecedented era of safety.

I don't know if it has to do with improved pilot training, improved maintenance and inspection regulations, plain old luck, or what, but it's a wonderful thing. I'll still get the heeby-jeebies whenever I fly though.

[cycloneye]

Finnally the plane is off the water.





http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28688215/

[Nimbus]

The areas with the least road density are the industrial areas with many buildings full of people and various potential industrial contaminants.

These must have been greylag geese that were comfortable around populous areas, otherwise they would have migrated further south.

Geese that were born in the wetlands near an airport would not be afraid of the plane noises.

[Dionne]

Interview this morning on Today show with "Sully" was canceled at the request of the U.S. Airlines Pilots Association.

Associated Press is now reporting that there was a "return" blip on the radar and the information was not passed along to 1549 as the blip was unidentified.

[CajunMama]

Interview this morning on Today show with "Sully" was canceled at the request of the U.S. Airlines Pilots Association.

Associated Press is now reporting that there was a "return" blip on the radar and the information was not passed along to 1549 as the blip was unidentified.

What's a "return" blip?

[Stephanie]

Interview this morning on Today show with "Sully" was canceled at the request of the U.S. Airlines Pilots Association.

Associated Press is now reporting that there was a "return" blip on the radar and the information was not passed along to 1549 as the blip was unidentified.

What's a "return" blip?

I believe that it's the radar showing the flock of birds. Radar usually picks these up and it is relayed to the pilots from air traffic control before take off or descent.

[Dionne]

In this case the blip was the birds. They were just not recognized as birds by the radar operator. What we don't know is the time frame. When was the blip noticed and where was Flight 1549 at that time?

It appears to me we have a win/win situation here. Everyone survived and we have a lot of data to learn from.

Earlier someone mentioned the specific type of geese that live in the area and do not migrate. This is true. I've spent a bunch of time on the north shore of Long Island about 30 miles from LaGuardia.....the geese are everywhere year round.

My personal experience with geese is at Lake Hood in Anchorage, AK. It's the largest float plane airport in the world. Adjacent to Anchorage International/Elmendorf and Ft Rich airports. On the way back in from bush trips we were frequently warned by the tower of "migratory birds in the area"......on final approach we are on constant watch. But remember, it is much easier to dodge a flock of geese in a Cessna 182 than an A320.

[tropicana]

a scare on same flight and same plane 2 days before?
CNN reported this earlier
CNN) -- Two days before US Airways Flight 1549 crashed into the Hudson River, passengers on the same route and same aircraft say they heard a series of loud bangs and the flight crew told them they could have to make an emergency landing. Steve Jeffrey of Charlotte, North Carolina, told CNN he was flying in first class Tuesday (jan 13) when, about 20 minutes into the flight, "it sounded like the wing was just snapping off."
"The red lights started going on. A little pandemonium was going on," Jeffrey recalled.

He said the incident occurred over Newark, New Jersey, soon after the plane -- also flying as Flight 1549 -- had taken off from LaGuardia Airport in New York.
"It seemed so loud, like luggage was hitting the side but times a thousand. It startled everyone on the plane," Jeffrey said. "We started looking at each other. The stewardesses started running around. They made an announcement that 'everyone heard the noise, we're going to turn around and head back to LaGuardia and check out what happened.'

"I fly about 50 to 60 times per year, and I've never heard a noise so loud," he said. "It wasn't turbulence, it wasn't luggage bouncing around. It was just completely like the engine was thrown against the side of the plane. It just -- it didn't shake the plane but it shook you out of the seat when you're drifting off, it really woke you up. And when it happened again, everyone just started looking at each other and there was a quiet murmuring around the plane, and you could feel the tension rising just in looking.
"I remember turning to my [business] partner and saying, 'I hope you got everything in order back home, life insurance and everything, because that didn't sound good.' Jeffrey said he sent a text message to his wife about a "scary, scary noise on the plane. Doesn't sound right. They're flying back to LaGuardia to check it out. I'll call you when we land. I love you."

He added, "About 10 minutes later when we never made the turn, we kept going, that's when the pilot came on and explained -- I wish I could remember the words -- I remember him using air, compression and lock -- I'm not sure the right order, but he made it sound like the air didn't get to the engine and it stalled the engine out, which he said doesn't happen all the time but it's not abnormal."

Expert Aviation Consulting, an Indianapolis, Indiana, private consulting firm that includes commercial airline pilots on its staff, said the plane that landed in the Hudson was the same one as Flight 1549 from LaGuardia two days earlier.
"EAC confirms that US Airways ship number N106US flew on January 13, 2009, and January 15, 2009, with the same flight number of AWE 1549 from New York's LaGuardia Airport to Charlotte Douglas [International] Airport in North Carolina," Expert Aviation said in a statement to CNN.

-justin-

[Dionne]

Here we go.........I can see it now. Spoke with a couple of buddies from the old days. This crash is going to be a combination of failed preventative maintenance AND failed communication from the tower.

My only question is why was "Sully" on this flight? It's a short hop. Was he in the process of upgrading an FO to Captain?

[gtalum]

tropicana, that sounds like a compressor stall. They're scary looking and sounding (loud bang and sometimes even flames shoot out of the engine), but they're fairly common. It's similar to a car backfiring, just on a much larger scale. I wouldn't be surprised to find that the previous incident is unrelated to this one. Of course I wouldn't be shocked to find a connection, either. This is why the NTSB takes it's time to look over all of the evidence.

[Dionne]

It's all over the internet now. Apparent cause was compressor stall in both engines due to bird strike 90 seconds into takeoff. Two days earlier the same aircraft experienced a compressor stall of the right engine 20 minutes into the flight.

[Nimbus]

Certainly the flash point of goose Pâté is much higher than aviation fuel, enough of a difference to cause a compressor stall.

The black box would have recorded any fuel pressure anomolies at the engines.

The climb out of New York after rotation is pretty steep, enough to change the orientation of the fuel pickup in the tanks.

Has anyone heard the results of the fuel analisis from the fuel pumped out of the wing?

[Dionne]

Certainly the flash point of goose Pâté is much higher than aviation fuel, enough of a difference to cause a compressor stall.

The black box would have recorded any fuel pressure anomolies at the engines.

The climb out of New York after rotation is pretty steep, enough to change the orientation of the fuel pickup in the tanks.

Has anyone heard the results of the fuel analisis from the fuel pumped out of the wing?

Nope, not yet. Although last July '08 (8) pilots filed a complaint with the U.S. Airlines Pilots Association against U.S. Airways. U.S. Airways wanted the pilots to reduce the amount of aviation fuel they carried. The extra weight burns more fuel. The problem with the empty space is that it can create condensation. Contaminated aviation fuel. Whether or not this can cause a compressor stall.....I dunno? Is it possible that this would have caused the stall 2 days earlier?