ENSO Updates (2007 thru 2023)

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wxman57
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Re: ENSO Updates

#661 Postby wxman57 » Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:42 pm

jinftl wrote:....

This is in line with the majority of models...which as of last update are forecasting ENSO neutral (in the graphic below....as defined by SST variance from -0.5C to +0.5C.)

Image


That still looks like the graphic from late February, nearly 2 months old. NCEP ensembles show the temperature anomaly in Nino 3.4 almost to 0C as of today. The forecast for El Nino keeps getting stronger, up to +1.1 to 1.2C in September. These ensembles were forecasting an El Nino at this time last year, though not as strong an El Nino.

Image
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Re: ENSO Updates

#662 Postby jinftl » Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:59 am

Only thing i can figure is that there is not one consensus forecast...different agencies blend different models etc for their forecasts....alluded to in discussion excerpt below. Be interesting to see what pans out.

As of 4/19/09, CPC forecast reads:

FORECASTS OF NINO 3.4 SST FROM THE CPC CONSOLIDATION SST FORECAST INDICATE THE TRANSITION FROM WEAK LA NINA TO ENSO-NEUTRAL CONDITIONS AS SPRING 2009 PROGRESSES. THE CPC CONSOLIDATION SST FORECAST - AN OBJECTIVE COMBINATION OF SEVERAL STATISTICAL TOOLS AND THE CLIMATE FORECAST SYSTEM (CFS) MODEL - ALSO PREDICTS THAT ENSO-NEUTRAL CONDITIONS COULD PERSIST THROUGHOUT THE REMAINDER OF 2009. THE ENSEMBLE MEAN FORECAST FROM THE CLIMATE FORECAST SYSTEM MODEL SHOWS A MORE RAPID WARMUP, WITH A TRANSITION TO SLIGHTLY POSITIVE VALUES DURING MJJ 2009, AND BORDERLINE WARM EVENT CONDITIONS BY LATE SUMMER. HOWEVER, THE GENERAL CONSENSUS OF ABOUT A DOZEN OTHER STATISTICAL AND DYNAMICAL SST FORECASTS FROM OTHER CENTERS LENDS MORE CREDENCE TO THE CPC CONSOLIDATION FORECAST.
http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/p ... day/fxus05.

Maybe one of the pros can explain the difference between the map posted above and the map below...both from same site...the one below is the 'pdf corrected version' (pdf = probability density function)

Image
http://www.cpc.noaa.gov/products/analys ... SSTMon.gif
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Re: ENSO Updates

#663 Postby HurricaneBill » Tue Apr 28, 2009 3:10 pm

I wonder what Jim Hughes thinks will happen. He forecasted the 2006 El Nino that suddenly developed.
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Re: ENSO Updates

#664 Postby jinftl » Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:29 pm

Update from Dr. Jeff Masters on 4/17/09

Sea Surface Temperatures (SSTs) and deep water temperatures have warmed significantly in the equatorial Eastern Pacific over the first two weeks of April, and La Niña conditions are no longer present. While NOAA's Climate Prediction Center has not yet declared an end to this La Niña episode and dropped their La Niña advisory, it is very likely that the La Niña event that began in December 2008 is now over.

The big question is whether an El Niño event will rapidly form in its place, in time for hurricane season. This did happen after the 1976 La Niña, which ended in April, with a weak El Niño beginning in September. However, it can take a few months for the atmosphere to adjust to the formation of a new El Niño, and there is no guarantee that a weak El Niño for the coming hurricane season would act to dramatically reduce Atlantic hurricane activity.The number of Atlantic hurricanes is typically reduced in an El Niño year, due to increased wind shear from strong high-level winds. Nearly all the model forecasts for the Niño 3.4 region predict neutral conditions for the August - October peak of hurricane season. Four out of 21 El Niño models are predicting an El Niño event for hurricane season; three are predicting a La Niña, and fourteen are predicting neutral conditions

http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMa ... mp=&page=6
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Re: ENSO Updates

#665 Postby wxman57 » Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:43 am

jinftl wrote:http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/p ... day/fxus05.

Maybe one of the pros can explain the difference between the map posted above and the map below...both from same site...the one below is the 'pdf corrected version' (pdf = probability density function)

Image
http://www.cpc.noaa.gov/products/analys ... SSTMon.gif


That top image appears to have the initial point at the end of February, while the bottom image appears to start in mid to late April (current time). I guess the top image just hasn't been updated in 2 months.
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Re: ENSO Updates

#666 Postby jinftl » Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:22 am

I looked at the charts again.....one shows model plots by each individual month while the other is made up of 3 month composites as data points...makes sense since conditions must persist for 3 months to be technically termed an el nino, la nina, etc.

I have done alot of digging and the overall consensus is that conditions will move to enso neutral to slight el nino possibly (though enso neutral is more probable as of april updates). The data points starts at march since we are still in april...but this is absolutely a part of the mid-april update. Shows 3 pr 4 models forecasting el nino conditions (>0.50 for 3 month period) by the peak of the season...majority are enso neutral (-0.5 to +0.5).


Image

Summary from April 15, 2009 NOAA Update (page 30 of link below):
•A transition from La Niña to ENSO-neutral is underway in the equatorial Pacific Ocean.
•Equatorial SSTs in the east-central Pacific Ocean remain slightly below average, but negative departures have weakened considerably since February 2009.
•The patterns of tropical convection and winds continue to reflect weak La Niña conditions.
•Based on recent trends in the observations and model forecasts,a transition to ENSO-neutral conditions will continue.
http://www.cpc.noaa.gov/products/analys ... ts-web.pdf

Image



wxman57 wrote:
jinftl wrote:http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/p ... day/fxus05.

Maybe one of the pros can explain the difference between the map posted above and the map below...both from same site...the one below is the 'pdf corrected version' (pdf = probability density function)

http://www.cpc.noaa.gov/products/analys ... SSTMon.gif


That top image appears to have the initial point at the end of February, while the bottom image appears to start in mid to late April (current time). I guess the top image just hasn't been updated in 2 months.
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Re: ENSO Updates

#667 Postby wxman57 » Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:56 am

jinftl wrote:I looked at the charts again.....one shows model plots by each individual month while the other is made up of 3 month composites as data points...makes sense since conditions must persist for 3 months to be technically termed an el nino, la nina, etc.

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/4057/ssttable.gif


If you like, you can view NCEP's seasonal forecast vs. monthly. My point is that the anomaly in the Nino 3.4 region is currently -.1C not -.6C. So that map you linked to (above) is way out of date with its early March start point (blue dot where the models diverge from). That chart hasn't been updated in quite a while. So what would those models predict if they were run today vs. in March?

Image
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Re: ENSO Updates

#668 Postby margiek » Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:33 pm

The way I think of these models, whether this is correct or not, is that they simply extrapolate the current trend. So they are only reliable out to a few months.
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Re: ENSO Updates

#669 Postby jinftl » Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:19 pm

I hear ya, and there could be subtle changes here and there in the next set of runs...but we are talking tenths of a degree Celsius....all of the analysis that have been put out with the model plots and data...from more than one agency in the U.S. and abroad all seem to be saying the same thing as of now...there is no doubt a transition out of la nina taking place and the forecast is for enso neutral over el nino on about a 2:1 margin using models, probabilities, etc.

Alot of the models in graphic you posted show the positive anomalies increasing at lesser slope by july/august....staying flat at enso neutral/weak el nino (enso neutral = -0.5 to +0.5), and some even show a slight decline in + anomalies by sept/oct.

It will definitely be interesting to see what develops....the ultimate question is what is the impact on the season ahead?
Data from the weekly CPC update (link below...pdf file pg-24-26) shows the composite month ONI (Oceanic Nino Index) as measured by the 3-month composite average SST anomaly as show in the model runs. Some memorable seasons of recent had enso neutral to weak el nino ONI readings (up to 0.5 is enso neutral, above is el nino) during very active phases of those seasons:

Aug-Sept-Oct 2004 = 0.9 (weak el nino)
July-Aug-Sept 2005 = 0.3 (enso neutral)
Aug-Sept-Oct 2005 = 0.2 (enso neutral)
http://www.cpc.noaa.gov/products/analys ... ts-web.pdf



wxman57 wrote:
jinftl wrote:I looked at the charts again.....one shows model plots by each individual month while the other is made up of 3 month composites as data points...makes sense since conditions must persist for 3 months to be technically termed an el nino, la nina, etc.

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/4057/ssttable.gif


If you like, you can view NCEP's seasonal forecast vs. monthly. My point is that the anomaly in the Nino 3.4 region is currently -.1C not -.6C. So that map you linked to (above) is way out of date with its early March start point (blue dot where the models diverge from). That chart hasn't been updated in quite a while. So what would those models predict if they were run today vs. in March?

Image
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Re: ENSO Updates

#670 Postby cycloneye » Fri May 01, 2009 8:26 am

Latest ENSO Models monthly update

Forecasts Show Pacific Warming
Summary
El Niño - Southern Oscillation (ENSO) is now in a neutral phase. Pacific Ocean sea surface temperatures (SSTs) have been warming for several months and are now slightly warmer than normal across the entire equatorial Pacific basin. All NINO indices are now positive (as of 27 April the weekly averaged NINO3 was +0.23°C, NINO3.4 was +0.01°C and NINO4 +0.06°C). Trade winds are now at slightly weaker than normal strength across the entire Pacific, cloudiness near the dateline is near-normal and sub-surface waters are slightly cooler than normal in the eastern but warmer in the west. The 30-day average SOI on 29 April has risen to +9, up from zero one month ago, and is the only indicator that is not clearly neutral. Our ENSO Wrap-up has more details.

All international coupled climate models surveyed here are predicting warming of Pacific Ocean SST in the outlook period, but the degree of warming varies. Two models (GloSea and JMA-CGCM02) are forecasting neutral ENSO conditions, one predicts slight warming (System 3), and three predict El Niño conditions to become established by late winter (POAMA, CFS, and particularly GMAO). Two of the models that are predicting strong warming have the latest start times and hence project from more recent observed oceanic and atmospheric conditions. However, the spread amongst the outlooks reflects that they are still forecasting across the "predictability barrier" in ENSO conditions that the climate system displays, although we are now almost past this barrier. Given this uncertainty and the wide range of predicted outlooks, continuing neutral conditions is the most likely outcome for the period through winter. However, all models forecast SST to be warmer than normal, and the probability of an El Niño occurring later in 2009 is now higher than the climatological probability of about 20%.

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/ahead/ENSO-summary.shtml
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Re: ENSO Updates=BoM 5/7/09 Update=Neutral thru mid summer

#671 Postby cycloneye » Thu May 07, 2009 6:14 am

Australians 7th of May Update of ENSO


SSTs across the central and eastern tropical Pacific continue to warm slowly, as they have done since February. When averaged over the month of April this warming has resulted in the disappearance of cool SST anomalies from the central and eastern equatorial Pacific. SSTs were close to normal everywhere with the exception of the far eastern regions, where they are now warmer than normal. The monthly NINO indices for April were +0.3°C, 0°C and +0.1°C for NINO3, NINO3.4 and NINO4 and respectively.

In terms of weekly data, the most recent NINO indices are +0.6°C, +0.3°C and 0.3°C for NINO3, NINO3.4 and NINO4 respectively. Over the past three weeks all three NINO regions have warmed. NINO3 and NINO3.4 warmed the most with an increase of approximately 0.3°C, while NINO4 warmed by approximately 0.2°C. The 7-day SST anomaly map map shows that SSTs across the central equatorial Pacific are near normal, while warm anomalies are now evident in regions further east. When compared with three weeks ago, positive anomalies in the far east of the Pacific, near South America, have strengthened. An animation of recent SST changes is available.

The sub-surface of the equatorial Pacific continued to warm through April and early May, effectively replacing most of the anomalously cool sub-surface water in the central and eastern tropical Pacific that had persisted since September 2008. A recent map for the 5 days ending 4 May shows warm sub-surface anomalies above +1.0°C evident both in the western and eastern Pacific. An animation of recent sub-surface changes is available.

An archive of past SST and sub-surface temperature charts is available.

Trade winds weakened right across the equatorial Pacific, most notably in late April and early May following a westerly wind burst in the western Pacific. The latest weekly wind anomalies, shown in the TAO/TRITON map (small image above) for the five days ending 4 May, indicate weaker than normal Trades across much of the near-equatorial Pacific.

The Southern Oscillation Index (SOI) rose slowly during much of April, though started to fall once more late in the month and into early May. The SOI rose from a March value of zero to an April value of +9, but the current approximate 30-day value has fallen back to +7 on 5 May. The Tahiti mean sea level pressure (MSLP) anomaly rose once more during April. Prior to March 2009, the Tahiti MSLP had generally been above average since August 2008. The Darwin MSLP fell to slightly below normal by late April. (SOI graph, SOI table).

Cloudiness near the date-line over the central to western Pacific is another important indicator of warm/cool ENSO conditions, as it normally increases/decreases (negative OLR/positive OLR anomalies) during these episodes. Cloudiness near the date-line remained below average in the first half of April, but it has increased to near-normal levels during the past three weeks.

The majority of international dynamic computer models surveyed by the Bureau of Meteorology predict a continuation of neutral conditions for the tropical Pacific until at least mid-winter. Three of the six models are suggesting ENSO neutral conditions for winter and spring, while three models have outlooks for El Niño conditions to develop. However, models are still having to contend with the March to June "predictability barrier". Given this uncertainty and the wide range of predicted outlooks, continuing neutral conditions is the most likely outcome for the period through winter. Models suggest a return to La Niña conditions is the least likely outcome. Recent forecasts from the POAMA model, run daily at the Bureau of Meteorology, show a steady warming, with ENSO-neutral conditions likely to persist through to at least mid-winter, but with the possibility of El Niño conditions into the spring. Pacific conditions and model predictions will continue to be monitored closely for any strengthening indications of an event. POAMA outlooks for the IOD suggest values will reduce slightly, but remain within the neutral range during winter and spring.
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Re: ENSO Updates=BoM 5/7/09 Update=Neutral thru mid summer

#672 Postby HURRICANELONNY » Thu May 07, 2009 6:47 am

When they came out with there last update. They predicted a weak El Nino by Fall. Now mostly neutral. Back then I believed the indicators were more neutral. Now I believe more of a El Nino by Fall. As they say. March - June are the key predictors.
:roll:
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Re: ENSO Updates=BoM 5/7/09 Update=Neutral thru mid summer

#673 Postby wxman57 » Thu May 07, 2009 8:31 am

With each new run, the NCEP ensembles are forecasting a stronger El Nino and an earlier onset. Who is correct? We shall see. Here's the latest:

Image
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Re: ENSO Updates=BoM 5/7/09 Update=Neutral thru mid summer

#674 Postby Ed Mahmoud » Thu May 07, 2009 8:39 am

wxman57 wrote:With each new run, the NCEP ensembles are forecasting a stronger El Nino and an earlier onset. Who is correct? We shall see. Here's the latest:

Image



Season Cancel!



/couldn't help myself.
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Re: ENSO Updates=BoM 5/7/09 Update=Neutral thru mid summer

#675 Postby xironman » Thu May 07, 2009 11:04 am

It certainly seems to be drifting in that direction
Image
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Re: ENSO Updates=BoM 5/7/09 Update=Neutral thru mid summer

#676 Postby somethingfunny » Thu May 07, 2009 12:15 pm

xironman wrote:It certainly seems to be drifting in that direction
Image


This is good news for the drought in California, then?

[edit] and bad news for the drought in Texas...
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Re: ENSO Updates=BoM 5/7/09 Update=Neutral thru mid summer

#677 Postby cycloneye » Thu May 07, 2009 2:37 pm

CPC Final La Nina Advisory,Neutral Conditions to Persist thru the Summer

EL NIÑO/SOUTHERN OSCILLATION (ENSO)
DIAGNOSTIC DISCUSSION
issued by
CLIMATE PREDICTION CENTER/NCEP
7 May 2009

ENSO Alert System Status: Final La Niña Advisory


Synopsis: ENSO-neutral conditions are expected to continue into the Northern Hemisphere Summer.

During April 2009, the equatorial Pacific Ocean transitioned from La Niña to ENSO-neutral conditions, ending the 2008-09 La Niña. Negative sea surface temperature (SST) anomalies weakened across the equatorial Pacific Ocean and positive anomalies developed in areas of the eastern Pacific (Fig. 1). Correspondingly, the latest weekly SST indices were near zero in all Niño regions, except for the easternmost Niño-1+2 region (Fig. 2). Subsurface oceanic heat content anomalies (average temperatures in the upper 300m of the ocean, Fig. 3) became positive for the first time since mid-August 2008, reflecting an eastward spread of above-average temperatures near thermocline depth (Fig. 4).

Atmospheric anomalies consistent with La Niña weakened during April, with enhanced convection decreasing over Indonesia, although convection remained suppressed near the International Date Line. Also, Madden Julian Oscillation (MJO) activity strongly influenced the atmospheric circulation across the global tropics, and contributed to the periodic fluctuation in the strength of the low-level easterly winds and upper-level westerly winds over the equatorial Pacific Ocean. Collectively, these oceanic and atmospheric anomalies are consistent with a transition to ENSO-neutral conditions.

A majority of model forecasts for the Niño-3.4 region show that ENSO-neutral conditions will continue through the remainder of 2009 (Fig. 5). The dynamical models, such as the NCEP Climate Forecast System (CFS), increasingly favor above-average temperatures in the Niño-3.4 region, while statistical models predict below- or near-average temperatures. Compared to the statistical models, the dynamical models are more responsive to subsurface temperatures, which have recently increased as positive anomalies have spread eastward. Based on current observations, recent trends, and model forecasts, ENSO-neutral conditions are expected to continue into the Northern Hemisphere Summer.

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/a ... odisc.html
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Re: ENSO Updates=BoM / CPC 5/7/09 Updates

#678 Postby wxman57 » Thu May 07, 2009 3:34 pm

"Figure 5" still hasn't been updated since March. Note all the forecasts begin in March on the graphic. If it had been updated, the forecasts would begin in May. El Nino 3.4 region is now above normal at about + 0.1 deg. So that graphic below is way out of date.

Image
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#679 Postby Bailey1777 » Thu May 07, 2009 3:44 pm

Sorry if I sound stupid but are we then saying everything considered and up to date we are looking at an enso-neutral for the majority if not all of this hurricane season?
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Re:

#680 Postby RL3AO » Thu May 07, 2009 6:24 pm

Bailey1777 wrote:Sorry if I sound stupid but are we then saying everything considered and up to date we are looking at an enso-neutral for the majority if not all of this hurricane season?


Thats what it looks like. Can't rule out a weak el nino by fall either.
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