Called 911 for a Tornado but a warning never went up

[feederband]

Usually there is following up on a called in report, but it isn't practical to dispatch someone out to the scene for every report called in by an average citizen. You do the most you can with the resources you have, but you have to quickly press on.

In florida we have the 2 seabreeze fronts collide everyday right now that gives us out summer rains...I know basically how a downburst happens...Can you get a burst from both side that may create the look of a tornado when it his the ground...Like I said we actually saw one farther down the line...But I was wonder when they collide with opposing winds causing a twist that may go down with the burst...I dont think thats what happen here since we were already were seeing debri with it about 1/4 mile away caught up in the updrafts like it may of already hit somewhere..

[feederband]

My name is Larry Seeley And I called 911 late Saturday Afternoon to report that we had what appeared to be a Tornado and lots of debri 100's of feet in the air and that the "week" tornado was heading north and fast..I am kind of a weather buff and we watched from the front yard what I believed to be a funnel forming...By the time we got to the back yard it sounded like alot of stuff was getting beat up about 5 blocks away...Turned out it was in a area were there were moble homes and they took some damage and that was the big debri field we were watching... 20 Seconds later it was enveloped into the rain shield...

And that was that..

But a couple hours later I notice that a tornado warning was not issued for polk county... There was a severe thunderstorm warning...Was something missed? Or if someone reports one to 911 dispatch does it not get to NWS? I'm sure we were watch a tornado being borned and it might not of lived much longer...But what is was a begining of a monster?


Larry Seeley
RESPONSE
Mr. Seeley,



Thanks for your report of the incident on Saturday and for your follow-up e-mail. Paul Womble from our office was on scene after the event and took many pictures of the damage, which he forwarded on to National Weather Service (NWS) Ruskin for further evaluation. He also spoke directly to the duty personnel on Saturday and to the chief forecaster on Sunday concerning the event. Regarding your call, our Communications Center supervisor did relay your report of the incident to NWS as part of his duties.



In speaking with Mr. Womble and the duty forecaster at NWS today to try to reconstruct what happened, it appears that when NWS received our report, they went to the radar to try to confirm any radar returns that may have indicated if a tornado had been in the area. Not seeing any evidence, and with a Severe Weather Warning for Thunderstorms in effect in the area, which itself warns of possible high winds, they felt that upgrading the warning to a tornado warning was not warranted. NWS is continuing to look into the event at our request and if I get back any more definitive information, I’ll pass it on to you.



Certainly you did the right thing by calling in such a sighting. It’s up to the NWS to make the “tornado” call, based not only on sightings from the ground but also from indications they have from the radar. Either way, it made for a very disturbing evening for you and your neighbors.



Thanks for your follow-up,



Pete

Pete McNally, CEM

Polk Co. Emergency Management

Emergency Management Director

1295 Brice Blvd.

Bartow, FL 33830

(863) 534-5605

(863) 534-5647 (FAX)

petemcnally@polkfl.com

I'm ok with it.......

[somethingfunny]

Remember that in the definition of a SEVERE THUNDERSTORM WARNING, the NWS states that "during a severe thunderstorm, a tornado may form at any time.

I've admittedly never been too concerned with tornadoes forming during a severe thunderstorm warning myself....but they can happen and we all ought to be prepared even if an official tornado warning isn't issued.

Regarding the classes to become a certified Skywarn Spotter, could we make this or an offshoot thread a sticky topic?

[brunota2003]

I am a Skywarn spotter. The staff at the NWS offices are very grateful for any reports from the field, especially though from trained spotters. I had 1" in diameter hail falling from a storm where I lived and called it in. The forecaster I talked to said the warning they had out (for quarter sized hail) was verifying nicely, and that I was not the only one reporting it. Apparently there was some golf ball sized hail right up the road, as the update to the warning included a spotter report of golf ball sized hail.

Being a Skywarn Spotter is wonderful, and even if you are just a point spotter, you never know when you'll end up using it. Was visiting family in Virginia, and was at the Lake in Fluvanna County (Lake Monticello) when storms fired up on the other side of the lake. Outflow from the storms were producing really gusty winds on my side, and estimated winds of 40 to 50 mph...called it in into the NWS Morehead City, NC office (my office, but I didnt have the number to the office there) and they pulled up a chat with the office I was in and relayed the report, since it was nearing severe levels, and a special weather statement was then issued warning of winds up to 50 mph.

[Dionne]

Something seems awry. We have spotters that report to NWS. We have NWS that distributes watches and warnings to our locals. We have doppler available. And, yes.....I know the doppler can be set to show different readings.....depending on the operator. That is why Mobile and Jackson.....which overlap, frequently show different intensity.

We just discovered that our new sirens will contain an "enemy warning attack" signal that sounds different.

Gimme a break!

[Stephanie]

Usually there is following up on a called in report, but it isn't practical to dispatch someone out to the scene for every report called in by an average citizen. You do the most you can with the resources you have, but you have to quickly press on.

I probably should've said "looked into it more" using radar and other reported conditions instead of following it up. I do understand that just radar alone may not pick everything up, but it didn't seem like an effort was made. Perhaps it was all just timing since the event did happen so quickly.

[Stephanie]

I'm glad that they did get back to you on that feederband.

I'm with Dionne though, I can't believe that they only rely on radar to make the call. Don't they have any other instruments they can use? I mean, they ARE the NWS for crying out loud...

[Kay Frantz]

Feederband, I am a Skywarn Spotter with Tampabay. You receive a card with a ID number and a 800 number to contact the Ruskin office if you observe any severe weather. You ID number tells them you are a trained spotter.

[psyclone]

Several days after this event there is no survey on the Tampa Bay weather site which they always seem to do, even for an EF-0 so it appears they were correct in not issuing a tornado warning for this event.

[feederband]

Several days after this event there is no survey on the Tampa Bay weather site which they always seem to do, even for an EF-0 so it appears they were correct in not issuing a tornado warning for this event.

They called me around 4 yesterday to ask me a question...They are still looking at it...About 9 of us saw a tornado on the ground...It went back in the rain sheild still on ground with large debri (garage door size and larger) coming out of the rain shield as high as 300 ft...I disagree that a warning should not of been issued...If they couldn't see it to begin with on radar, they could not of known how long it would of lasted...Luckily it looks like it went down twice on as a EF-0 and no one was hurt...

But I am still ok with what ever they find...My main issue was did the report get to the NWS to begin with...Emergency Management says yes I'm good with it...

[senorpepr]

I'm glad that they did get back to you on that feederband.

I'm with Dionne though, I can't believe that they only rely on radar to make the call. Don't they have any other instruments they can use? I mean, they ARE the NWS for crying out loud...

What else are they to use at that time? Really radar and field reports are your only tools to use and you can't always use the field reports you get. It appears in this case the reports were correct, but if the NWS issued a tornado warning on every report they receive, the false alarm rate goes through the roof. In a situation like this, I'm assuming they had no credible field reports (i.e. trained observers) and radar wasn't indicating a tornado. There was already a severe thunderstorm warning out, so it was a good compromise.

It's nice to hear they are following up on the system.

[feederband]

I'm glad that they did get back to you on that feederband.

I'm with Dionne though, I can't believe that they only rely on radar to make the call. Don't they have any other instruments they can use? I mean, they ARE the NWS for crying out loud...

What else are they to use at that time? Really radar and field reports are your only tools to use and you can't always use the field reports you get. It appears in this case the reports were correct, but if the NWS issued a tornado warning on every report they receive, the false alarm rate goes through the roof. In a situation like this, I'm assuming they had no credible field reports (i.e. trained observers) and radar wasn't indicating a tornado. There was already a severe thunderstorm warning out, so it was a good compromise.

It's nice to hear they are following up on the system.

They also said that maybe for a brief moment conditons for a tornado could of existed but conditions ahead of the cell didn't show that a tornado would be long lived and that the storm had reached its peak in our area and was weaking...He said if the cell looked like it was to continue to strenghen and verfied that would of changed the ball game.

[artist]

feederband, I don't understand that answer. It is like saying, oh, well, it will be minor and short lived if anything does happen. Is that what you get from it too? I bet those that were hit from it, don't think so.

And I do totally understand procedure, etc. but having lived in TX and now here, we have found way too often they do not report on things, such as we have thought it has to do with tourist, etc. We could be wrong, but that is the only reason we can find for their not wanting to issue watches on things like they do in TX.