I'm open minded BUT.......
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Well Im just going to come out and say it.. I believe from a biblical point of view its wrong, and I just cant go against that or argue with it (just read the first chapter of Romans) who am I to argue with God's word.
It is strange though, cause growing up in the theatre circles, I always had Gay and Lesbian friends, but I always made it clear I did not agree with there sexual orientation... In the end they respected my honesty, and I still remain in contact with a few of them....
It is strange though, cause growing up in the theatre circles, I always had Gay and Lesbian friends, but I always made it clear I did not agree with there sexual orientation... In the end they respected my honesty, and I still remain in contact with a few of them....
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GalvestonDuck
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Whoa...back up!
You're equating crossdressers with gay????? Believe it or not...it's not always the case.
Furthermore -- http://www.apa.org/releases/homophob.html
And you really don't want me to go into the Biblical arguments.
You're equating crossdressers with gay????? Believe it or not...it's not always the case.
Furthermore -- http://www.apa.org/releases/homophob.html
And you really don't want me to go into the Biblical arguments.
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Rainband
Give it up DUCK!!! It's obvious here whats going on.. People are ignorant to who we are and why we are ..We were born this way and that is that..and as Duck said "alot of cross-dressers are straight.. If Gay people...are born gay..which we are..then how can it be a sin. I am not even gonna go there. All I know is I am sick and tired of people judging me for what they don't know and preconceive...I am GAY and most of you never even knew that..It is very sad that we..the gay people or fags or queers as we are most commanly called have to live our lives in fear due to the ignorance of others...We want to live our lives..plain and simple..we don't want to push it in your face.we just want to exist... There are bad in all groups and good..all groups..Most of you thought I was awesome..a Bud and a great member of this team..well as such it's time for honesty.. You all know me and "love" me ..lets see how you feel now... Time for reality...I come in peace I mean no harm....Wish I could say the same for some of the judgemental people..who create the myths and preconceived notions..of how I am supposed to act and live. I personally am very masculine and would never even dream of cross dressing but ..like i read above "to each is own". Why are we all so judgemental of everyone else??? I am who I am and I have had to lie my whole life and say it doesn't matter and people will still like me for who I am..when in reality..some people who find out your gay won't even come near you. Like I said I don't come across as "the defintion..preconceived I might add..of what a homosexual looks or acts like.. I hate the color pink and never wear dresses..I am not after your young children...and I never wear make-up. I am Johnathan..ie Rainband..just as I was before and I just thought you should knowGalvestonDuck wrote:Whoa...back up!
You're equating crossdressers with gay????? Believe it or not...it's not always the case.
Furthermore -- http://www.apa.org/releases/homophob.html
And you really don't want me to go into the Biblical arguments.
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All cross dressers that I know of are not gay and some of them even have wives, like the one mentioned above in my post. Some men just like to do it for fun or even money. I hear the money is good.
I only know of one gay cross dresser and I sent AFLAC a PM about him. But he is cool and I worked with him for about 12 years.
I only know of one gay cross dresser and I sent AFLAC a PM about him. But he is cool and I worked with him for about 12 years.
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I used to have feelings for women myself, although I had no trouble appreciating men. I look at the issue as a matter of choice, more than one being "born that way" or being brought up to accept it. Since I have decided to live my life based on the premises in the Bible about 10 years ago, I have abandoned the very idea of attraction to another woman and just as I would reject the temptation to lust for a man other than my husband, I have chosen to reject the temptation to lust for another woman, as there is a higher calling on my life now. Granted, there is often more to a lesbian or gay relationship than lust, but I believe that at the core of the issue is mankind's corrupt nature, redeemed only by the grace of God, found through Jesus Christ. I would certainly understand if one thought this a bit preachy, but I wouldn't be on this soapbox if I hadn't seen God's power at work in my own life. I share this out of a desire to impart grace. I'm sure not all will agree with my perspective, but I feel it's worth expressing.
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Rainband
I am very close to GOD too..until I came out and admited who I was..I had a horrible life and attempted suicide several times..I was on drugs and my life was all but lost..When I admited I was gay..Born that way..maybe some people aren't but I was..My life turned around..Plain and simple..I respect those of you that think I live in sin.. As I said GOD made me and I am a great person..i would give the shirt off my back and an organ if I had a spare... So I think on judgement day..I will be straight with my maker..No pun intended!!
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Rainband
That makes no sense to me..If you take issue to what we are..then obviously you take issue who we areMomlett wrote:I'd like to clarify one thing. Many Bible-thumpers are prejudiced against gays. I have no issue with gays, I take issue with homosexuality. I have no issue with adulterers; I take issue with adultery....
:o
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Rainband wrote:As I said GOD made me and I am a great person..i would give the shirt off my back and an organ if I had a spare... So I think on judgement day..I will be straight with my maker..No pun intended!!
I would ask you, for the sake of friendly debate, is your God the God of the Bible? Do you believe the Bible is true?
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Rainband
Yes I do.Momlett wrote:Rainband wrote:As I said GOD made me and I am a great person..i would give the shirt off my back and an organ if I had a spare... So I think on judgement day..I will be straight with my maker..No pun intended!!
I would ask you, for the sake of friendly debate, is your God the God of the Bible? Do you believe the Bible is true?
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GalvestonDuck
- Category 5
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I'll just post my main points and then leave it alone. I've been through this on other boards and to be honest, it gets a bit redundant hearing the same arguments, both sides - back and forth, over and over again.
1) I couldn't live without God in my life. He gives me strength and blessings that I shall forever be grateful for. My dad was Baptist, my mom Catholic. I believe in the Christian faith and go to church with many others who fellowship with me...and know about me.
2) Not everyone does believe in the Christian faith or the Bible. So for us to try to tell them that OUR set of rules applies to them just makes them laugh harder at us as Christians.
3) The original Hebrew translations of the Bible did not even include the word "homosexual." The original text of many of the passages of Scripture used against gays was about male prostitutes and idol worship.
4) David and Jonathon. Ruth and Naomi. It's hard to say, but they were in relationships of a questionable nature.
5) Lust = bad. Love = good. There's heterosexual lust also and it's just as sinful. The Bible is clear that LUST IS BAD. Having sex in public restrooms, adult theaters, or whatever...engaging in kiddie stuff or child molestation..... prostitution. It's all a sin.
6) "For God so loved the world, He gave His only begotten Son so that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life." I'm a whosoever and I believeth.
7) "Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Rev. Phelps and his "God Hates Fags" crap turns my stomach. No one is going to tell me that God hates me or anyone else.
And can someone explain why we now say it's okay to wear clothes made of two kinds of fabric, eat pork, eat seafood, and plant corn and hay in the same field, as well as why we go to church on Sundays instead of Saturdays and it's okay for a man to be with a woman during certain times of the month? Could it be because Christ created a new covenant?
Colossians 2:16-17 "Therefore let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or Sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is Christ."
Hebrews 9:9-10 The first Covenant "was a figure for the time then present symbolic...concerned only with foods and drink, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation."
No one is perfect, but Christ. And no one will shake my faith in Him and how I live my life for Him.
"When the weight of all my dreams
Is resting heavy on my head
And the thoughtful words of help and hope
Have all been nicely said
But I'm still hurting, wondering if I'll ever be the one
I think I am--I think I am.
Then you gently re-remind me
That You've made me from the first
And the more I try to be the best
The more I get the worst.
And I realize the good in me is only there because of who
You are, who You are.
And all I ever have to be is what
You've made me
Any more or less would be a step out of Your plan
As you daily recreate me help me always keep in mind
That I only have to do what I can find
And all I ever have to be
All I have to be
All I ever have to be is what You've made me"
~Amy Grant
1) I couldn't live without God in my life. He gives me strength and blessings that I shall forever be grateful for. My dad was Baptist, my mom Catholic. I believe in the Christian faith and go to church with many others who fellowship with me...and know about me.
2) Not everyone does believe in the Christian faith or the Bible. So for us to try to tell them that OUR set of rules applies to them just makes them laugh harder at us as Christians.
3) The original Hebrew translations of the Bible did not even include the word "homosexual." The original text of many of the passages of Scripture used against gays was about male prostitutes and idol worship.
4) David and Jonathon. Ruth and Naomi. It's hard to say, but they were in relationships of a questionable nature.
5) Lust = bad. Love = good. There's heterosexual lust also and it's just as sinful. The Bible is clear that LUST IS BAD. Having sex in public restrooms, adult theaters, or whatever...engaging in kiddie stuff or child molestation..... prostitution. It's all a sin.
6) "For God so loved the world, He gave His only begotten Son so that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life." I'm a whosoever and I believeth.
7) "Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Rev. Phelps and his "God Hates Fags" crap turns my stomach. No one is going to tell me that God hates me or anyone else.
And can someone explain why we now say it's okay to wear clothes made of two kinds of fabric, eat pork, eat seafood, and plant corn and hay in the same field, as well as why we go to church on Sundays instead of Saturdays and it's okay for a man to be with a woman during certain times of the month? Could it be because Christ created a new covenant?
Colossians 2:16-17 "Therefore let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or Sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is Christ."
Hebrews 9:9-10 The first Covenant "was a figure for the time then present symbolic...concerned only with foods and drink, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation."
No one is perfect, but Christ. And no one will shake my faith in Him and how I live my life for Him.
"When the weight of all my dreams
Is resting heavy on my head
And the thoughtful words of help and hope
Have all been nicely said
But I'm still hurting, wondering if I'll ever be the one
I think I am--I think I am.
Then you gently re-remind me
That You've made me from the first
And the more I try to be the best
The more I get the worst.
And I realize the good in me is only there because of who
You are, who You are.
And all I ever have to be is what
You've made me
Any more or less would be a step out of Your plan
As you daily recreate me help me always keep in mind
That I only have to do what I can find
And all I ever have to be
All I have to be
All I ever have to be is what You've made me"
~Amy Grant
Last edited by GalvestonDuck on Wed Jul 30, 2003 11:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Now that you mentioned the God Hates Fags website, Phelps has sent a letter to Trent Lott and the Preacher of First Baptist Church here in Pascagoula demanding them to take a stand against the recent Supreme Court ruling. First of all he is wasting his time because Trent is no long Majority leader and second he does not feel that way against people. So the Preacher sent an email to Bill Frist about it. No response.
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I would ask you, for the sake of friendly debate, is your God the God of the Bible? Do you believe the Bible is true?[/quote] Yes I do.[/quote]
If you believe the Bible is true, are God's commands not then valid? If the Bible says that homosexuality is a sin, is it not then a sin? I am not being judgmental; I have lived that kind of lifestyle myself! But I have seen the truth of the Bible and chosen to agree with God and allow Him to change me by the power of His Spirit, imparted to those who trust in His Son, Jesus. I believe having this power to overcome a lifestyle requires a willingness to obey His commands and a yieldedness to His authority. According to the Bible, we are not all "OK" people; but in fact are separated from God by our sin, which is why Jesus came in the first place: to forgive us and restore our relationship with God by taking our sin on Himself. This was His expression of love to us, for who can give more than their life for another? Ultimately, we must all choose to accept or reject Him, but the Bible is pretty clear about the consequences.
Thanks for hearing me out. I know it's hard to stomach for many people; I used to cringe myself...but if you can accept this as truth, it will bring amazing grace into your life.
Oh, I'm popular now!
If you believe the Bible is true, are God's commands not then valid? If the Bible says that homosexuality is a sin, is it not then a sin? I am not being judgmental; I have lived that kind of lifestyle myself! But I have seen the truth of the Bible and chosen to agree with God and allow Him to change me by the power of His Spirit, imparted to those who trust in His Son, Jesus. I believe having this power to overcome a lifestyle requires a willingness to obey His commands and a yieldedness to His authority. According to the Bible, we are not all "OK" people; but in fact are separated from God by our sin, which is why Jesus came in the first place: to forgive us and restore our relationship with God by taking our sin on Himself. This was His expression of love to us, for who can give more than their life for another? Ultimately, we must all choose to accept or reject Him, but the Bible is pretty clear about the consequences.
Thanks for hearing me out. I know it's hard to stomach for many people; I used to cringe myself...but if you can accept this as truth, it will bring amazing grace into your life.
Oh, I'm popular now!
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Stephanie
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WOW!!!
Johnathan - Good for you!
Here's my point - I know that this is not true for all people that believe in God and Jesus Christ, but I know of alot of people that go to church, go to Bible Study, are very religious, but cannot tolerate ANYONE that is gay. I believe that God and the Bible teaches tolerance - to love our fellow man/woman, that we are all His children and HE LOVES US ALL. Anyone that cannot or WILL NOT accept another person because they are different, church goers or not, IMHO, are going against God's wishes. I've said in many posts - "Who are we to judge?" I am not perfect and I never will be and neither is anyone else.
Johnathan - Good for you!
Here's my point - I know that this is not true for all people that believe in God and Jesus Christ, but I know of alot of people that go to church, go to Bible Study, are very religious, but cannot tolerate ANYONE that is gay. I believe that God and the Bible teaches tolerance - to love our fellow man/woman, that we are all His children and HE LOVES US ALL. Anyone that cannot or WILL NOT accept another person because they are different, church goers or not, IMHO, are going against God's wishes. I've said in many posts - "Who are we to judge?" I am not perfect and I never will be and neither is anyone else.
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vbhoutex
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Steve-EXCELLENT POST!! We all are who we are, straight or gay, homphobic or nonhomphobic, crazy or "straight as an arrow"(not referring to sexuality), etc. ad infinitum. I, like you, have some of every thing you can think of in my life for friends.
I too stand by the Bible and what it has taught me. One thing it has taught me is to not be judgemental of others. Due to the environments we all liv/grow up in and the IMPERFECTNESS OF MAN we can not always get away from the fault of being judgemental, which can make for some unintentional hard feelings, but at the same time I am not going to live my life worrying whether what I say or do is going to offend every person I come in contact with. I would never talk of do anything if I did.
Since you have chosen to announce that you are gay here Johnathan, I can tell you that I could care less what your sexual orientation is. It is of no consequence to me one way or the other until "you" try to push it off on me or ask for specieal dispensation due to your sexual orientation. I guess the best way to say how I feel is that I have never understood why SOME have to let others publicly know what their sexual orientation is(and I am not saying you should not have "come out" here)by the way they act in public. AS YOU SAID YOU ARE WHO YOU ARE AND YOU ARE A GOOD PERSON!!! I FIRMLY BELIEVE ALL PEOPLE ARE GOOD PEOPLE UNTIL PROVEN OTHERWISE. I have been burned a few times by those that have chosen not to be "good people", but that is a "burden" I have to bear if I am to live my life as a Christian.
I too stand by the Bible and what it has taught me. One thing it has taught me is to not be judgemental of others. Due to the environments we all liv/grow up in and the IMPERFECTNESS OF MAN we can not always get away from the fault of being judgemental, which can make for some unintentional hard feelings, but at the same time I am not going to live my life worrying whether what I say or do is going to offend every person I come in contact with. I would never talk of do anything if I did.
Since you have chosen to announce that you are gay here Johnathan, I can tell you that I could care less what your sexual orientation is. It is of no consequence to me one way or the other until "you" try to push it off on me or ask for specieal dispensation due to your sexual orientation. I guess the best way to say how I feel is that I have never understood why SOME have to let others publicly know what their sexual orientation is(and I am not saying you should not have "come out" here)by the way they act in public. AS YOU SAID YOU ARE WHO YOU ARE AND YOU ARE A GOOD PERSON!!! I FIRMLY BELIEVE ALL PEOPLE ARE GOOD PEOPLE UNTIL PROVEN OTHERWISE. I have been burned a few times by those that have chosen not to be "good people", but that is a "burden" I have to bear if I am to live my life as a Christian.
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Skywarn, C.E.R.T.
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Rainband
Yes I do.[/quote] If you believe the Bible is true, are God's commands not then valid? If the Bible says that homosexuality is a sin, is it not then a sin? I am not being judgmental; I have lived that kind of lifestyle myself! But I have seen the truth of the Bible and chosen to agree with God and allow Him to change me by the power of His Spirit, imparted to those who trust in His Son, Jesus. I believe having this power to overcome a lifestyle requires a willingness to obey His commands and a yieldedness to His authority. According to the Bible, we are not all "OK" people; but in fact are separated from God by our sin, which is why Jesus came in the first place: to forgive us and restore our relationship with God by taking our sin on Himself. This was His expression of love to us, for who can give more than their life for another? Ultimately, we must all choose to accept or reject Him, but the Bible is pretty clear about the consequences.Momlett wrote:I would ask you, for the sake of friendly debate, is your God the God of the Bible? Do you believe the Bible is true?
Thanks for hearing me out. I know it's hard to stomach for many people; I used to cringe myself...but if you can accept this as truth, it will bring amazing grace into your life.
Oh, I'm popular now!
[/quote]The bible?? I believe the bible was translated to the best of the ablities of the translators...
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