ATL : TROPICAL DEPRESSION ERIKA (06L)

Moderator: S2k Moderators

Message
Author
User avatar
Blown Away
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 10152
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 6:17 am

Re:

#1501 Postby Blown Away » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:42 am

gatorcane wrote:models are diverging at this point. Seems that the CMC and MM5 models recurve it out to sea. But the GFDL/ECMWF/NOGAPS models move it towards the SE Bahamas as a somewhat weaker entity and maybe into Florida. The difference lies partly in how strong they make 94L but how they handle the potential for a High pressure system to move off the Eastern CONUS into the Western Atlantic in the long-range. The latter models think a Bermuda High will builds while the former think that it will not. The long-term future of this invest and whether it impacts the CONUS is still uncertain. I would have to lean towards a recurve but if I did, that would be going with the percentages as most systems do recurve anyway.


The trough is going to sit over the EC for most of this week as 94L moves on a general WNW path. As the trough begins to weaken next weekend and the ridge begins to build back in the question is how will this affect 94L? If 94L were to speed up I think recurving from SFL/GOM would be greater and if 94L is far enough E to miss the current EC trough it may allow a building ridge to push 94L more W.
0 likes   

Aric Dunn
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 21238
Age: 42
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 9:58 pm
Location: Ready for the Chase.
Contact:

#1502 Postby Aric Dunn » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:46 am

wow nogaps 12z run much farther south almost through DR and weaker

https://www.fnmoc.navy.mil/wxmap_cgi/cg ... ql&tau=060
0 likes   

Aric Dunn
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 21238
Age: 42
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 9:58 pm
Location: Ready for the Chase.
Contact:

#1503 Postby Aric Dunn » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:51 am

nogaps looking like a SC carolina hit .. after passing very close to florida. so the past 4 runs of nogaps have shifted significantly farther west..
0 likes   

User avatar
storms NC
Tropical Storm
Tropical Storm
Posts: 247
Age: 69
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 2:41 pm
Location: Coast of NC & southwest coast of Fla

#1504 Postby storms NC » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:51 am

:uarrow:
By the look of that map it should pass to the east of DR. It may go over PR.
Last edited by storms NC on Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
0 likes   

Stormcenter
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 6684
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 11:27 am
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Re:

#1505 Postby Stormcenter » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:52 am

Just my opinion based on the season so far and what the conditions should be like
as 94L moves wnw. I believe too much focus is being put on what the steering currents are going to be like days and days from now when there may not be anything there of significance to steer. That's why I used Ana as an example. As I always say time will tell.


artist wrote:
Stormcenter wrote:The key thing to note is no significant system out there during this run (again)which makes you wonder what will eventually kill off 94L.....Mr. Shear maybe? It reminds me of Ana. It will develop then eventually get hacked by the shear.

stormcenter is that just a guess or do you have some reasoning behind it. I am just trying to learn here. Thanks
0 likes   

MWatkins
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 2574
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2002 7:51 pm
Location: SE Florida
Contact:

#1506 Postby MWatkins » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:52 am

The center of 94L probably passed over Buoy 41040, located at 14.5N, 53W over the past hour. Winds blew northeasterly early this morning, then went calm, then shifted to southerly late this morning. The winds were less than 10 knots during the center passage, so the circulation of 94L is not yet well-defined. The pressure fell significantly as 94L moved over the buoy (seen only after one removes the wiggles due to daily atmospheric tide effect present in the tropics). 94L will appear on Martinique radar on Tuesday.


This quite from Dr Master's blog reflects both experience and willingness to dig past the obvious solution. I think sometimes people miss important clues because they accept the answer (1010MB) without looking at what that number would have been normally.

You can't just look at pressure totals and wind barbs...the tropics are a far more complex thing.

This is why there will always be a place for skilled meteorologists who are willing to dig at the data rather than look at the easiest available data and either accept or dismiss it.

MW



*edited by sg to fix quote
0 likes   

User avatar
artist
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 9792
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:26 pm
Location: West Palm

Re: Re:

#1507 Postby artist » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:59 am

Stormcenter wrote:Just my opinion based on the season so far and what the conditions should be like
as 94L moves wnw. I believe too much focus is being put on what the steering currents are going to be like days and days from now when there may not be anything there of significance to steer. That's why I used Ana as an example. As I always say time will tell.


artist wrote:
Stormcenter wrote:The key thing to note is no significant system out there during this run (again)which makes you wonder what will eventually kill off 94L.....Mr. Shear maybe? It reminds me of Ana. It will develop then eventually get hacked by the shear.

stormcenter is that just a guess or do you have some reasoning behind it. I am just trying to learn here. Thanks

can you explain to me what you mean by what the season has been like? I thought that conditions change daily. I do understand that there has been el nino out there, as well as the mjo can affect it, and sst's, etc., so what are you seeing? I am wondering what you are thinking. Not just a feeling. And thanks again for your reply.
0 likes   

User avatar
wxman57
Moderator-Pro Met
Moderator-Pro Met
Posts: 22984
Age: 67
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2003 8:06 pm
Location: Houston, TX (southwest)

Re: ATL : INVEST 94L

#1508 Postby wxman57 » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:00 pm

Lowest pressure as it passed was 1008mb:
http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/plot_met.php?s ... _label=GMT

Very weak LLC indicated by obs:
Image
0 likes   

User avatar
storms NC
Tropical Storm
Tropical Storm
Posts: 247
Age: 69
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 2:41 pm
Location: Coast of NC & southwest coast of Fla

Re: Re:

#1509 Postby storms NC » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:03 pm

Bocadude85 wrote:
Evil Jeremy wrote:Is it me, or is 94L slowing down and making more of a NW jog in the last few frames?

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/flt/t2/loop-vis.html



Not sure I see a NW motion.. might just be the convection expanding

I see it going more to the NW or WNW at 300-310 degrees.And it is not the convection I am looking at.
0 likes   

User avatar
cycloneye
Admin
Admin
Posts: 145605
Age: 68
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 10:54 am
Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico

Re: ATL : INVEST 94L - Computer Models

#1510 Postby cycloneye » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:04 pm

0 likes   

User avatar
Evil Jeremy
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 5463
Age: 32
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 2:10 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: ATL : INVEST 94L - Computer Models

#1511 Postby Evil Jeremy » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:05 pm

cycloneye wrote:12z CMC is recurve,recurve,recurve.

http://moe.met.fsu.edu/cgi-bin/cmctc2.c ... =Animation


I think Canada is just -removed- the storm will come to it lol.
0 likes   

User avatar
Bocadude85
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 2991
Age: 38
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:20 pm
Location: Honolulu,Hi

Re: Re:

#1512 Postby Bocadude85 » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:05 pm

storms NC wrote:
Bocadude85 wrote:
Evil Jeremy wrote:Is it me, or is 94L slowing down and making more of a NW jog in the last few frames?

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/flt/t2/loop-vis.html



Not sure I see a NW motion.. might just be the convection expanding

I see it going more to the NW or WNW at 300-310 degrees.And it is not the convection I am looking at.



Yes I agree its moving wnw but not nw
0 likes   

Derek Ortt

Re: ATL : INVEST 94L

#1513 Postby Derek Ortt » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:07 pm

cycloneye wrote:Latest analyisis from Dr Jeff Masters

Invest 94L
The well-organized tropical wave (94L) near 14.5N, 52W, about 500 miles east of the central Lesser Antilles Islands, continues to be a threat to develop into a tropical depression. Visible satellite imagery and this morning's QuikSCAT pass do not show a surface circulation yet, though 94L does have a large envelope of moisture and some modest heavy thunderstorm activity. QuikSCAT noted winds up to 30 mph. Water vapor satellite loops show that 94L has moistened the region surrounding it considerably, and dry air from the Saharan Air Layer is not a major impediment to development. Wind shear is a low 5 - 10 knots, and the ocean temperature are a moderately warm 28°C. Visible satellite loops over the past two hours show low-level spiral bands developing on 94L's northeast side, and I give a 70% chance the Hurricane Hunters will find a tropical depression or tropical storm on Tuesday when they investigate 94L.

The center of 94L probably passed over Buoy 41040, located at 14.5N, 53W over the past hour. Winds blew northeasterly early this morning, then went calm, then shifted to southerly late this morning. The winds were less than 10 knots during the center passage, so the circulation of 94L is not yet well-defined. The pressure fell significantly as 94L moved over the buoy (seen only after one removes the wiggles due to daily atmospheric tide effect present in the tropics). 94L will appear on Martinique radar on Tuesday.

The forecast for 94L
Shear will remain low, 5 -10 knots, over the next 5 days, SSTs will be warm, in the 28 - 29°C range, and dry air should have only a minor inhibiting effect, so I can't see anything that will prevent 94L from developing into a tropical depression over the next 1 - 2 days. The HWRF model develops 94L into a hurricane 4 days from now, as does the SHIPS intensity model, but other models, such as the GFDL, ECMWF, and GFS, do not develop 94L at all.

Model solutions for the track of 94L are divergent. Water vapor satellite loops show two upper-level lows to the north and northwest of 94L that are pulling the storm to the west-northwest, and 94L's motion is expected to range between the west-northwest and northwest over the next three days. By Tuesday, 94L will slow down from its current 15 mph forward speed to about 10 mph. Most of the models predict that the steering influence of the upper-level lows will pull 94L far enough north that the storm will miss the Lesser Antilles, with a closest approach occurring Wednesday and Thursday. However, the ECMWF and HWRF models have 94L passing within 200 miles of the islands, and the northern Lesser Antilles may experience tropical storm conditions on Thursday.

At the longer ranges, the fate of 94L is highly uncertain. The Canadian model turns 94L to the north near Bermuda, then out to sea, while the NOGAPS model foresees a threat to the U.S. East Coast early next week. Both of these solutions are believable. The Hurricane Hunters are scheduled to make their first flight into 94L on Tuesday afternoon at 2pm EDT.


One thing I have noticed, Jeff Masters has a high bias with his predictions
0 likes   

Derek Ortt

Re: ATL : INVEST 94L

#1514 Postby Derek Ortt » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:08 pm

ronjon wrote:whats all this talk of shear? Dr Masters indicates along with SHIPs only 5-10 kts the next 5 days. The southerly shear seen on the west side of 94L is due to the clockwise motion of the upper high currently centered over the deepest convection. If this anticyclone moves in tandem with the LLC, then shear will not be an issue.


Jeff Masters and SHIPS are beyond wrong in this case. Was just at HRD map discussion... system has more issues than I thought it would yesterday
0 likes   

User avatar
artist
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 9792
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:26 pm
Location: West Palm

Re: ATL : INVEST 94L

#1515 Postby artist » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:12 pm

Derek Ortt wrote:
ronjon wrote:whats all this talk of shear? Dr Masters indicates along with SHIPs only 5-10 kts the next 5 days. The southerly shear seen on the west side of 94L is due to the clockwise motion of the upper high currently centered over the deepest convection. If this anticyclone moves in tandem with the LLC, then shear will not be an issue.


Jeff Masters and SHIPS are beyond wrong in this case. Was just at HRD map discussion... system has more issues than I thought it would yesterday


can you explain Derek? Thanks
0 likes   

User avatar
Blown Away
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 10152
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 6:17 am

Re: ATL : INVEST 94L - Computer Models

#1516 Postby Blown Away » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:13 pm

cycloneye wrote:12z CMC is recurve,recurve,recurve.

http://moe.met.fsu.edu/cgi-bin/cmctc2.c ... =Animation


I'm starting to believe my theory, the CMC is much faster than the other models moving 94L west. We know there is a trough along the EC for most of the week so if 94L speeds up it will be influenced by that trough and recurve. The CMC has 94L N of Hispaniola in 96 hours and the other models have 94L in the same area in 130+ hours, which will be when the EC trough is lifting out.
0 likes   

User avatar
cycloneye
Admin
Admin
Posts: 145605
Age: 68
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 10:54 am
Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico

Re: ATL : INVEST 94L

#1517 Postby cycloneye » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:14 pm

It has a good chance to be a TD at 5.

Image
0 likes   

Derek Ortt

Re: ATL : INVEST 94L

#1518 Postby Derek Ortt » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:17 pm

cycloneye wrote:It has a good chance to be a TD at 5.

Image


I think it has a good chance to get knocked down to code YELLOW. Look where the surface center is. Look at the environmental conditions. Any further development is almost certainly to be very slow, if at all now
0 likes   

Derek Ortt

Re: ATL : INVEST 94L

#1519 Postby Derek Ortt » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:20 pm

artist wrote:
Derek Ortt wrote:
ronjon wrote:whats all this talk of shear? Dr Masters indicates along with SHIPs only 5-10 kts the next 5 days. The southerly shear seen on the west side of 94L is due to the clockwise motion of the upper high currently centered over the deepest convection. If this anticyclone moves in tandem with the LLC, then shear will not be an issue.


Jeff Masters and SHIPS are beyond wrong in this case. Was just at HRD map discussion... system has more issues than I thought it would yesterday


can you explain Derek? Thanks


strong shear from the upper low and a low level easterly wind surge. 700mb winds at Barbados are close to 30KT
0 likes   

User avatar
Ivanhater
Storm2k Moderator
Storm2k Moderator
Posts: 11162
Age: 38
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:25 am
Location: Pensacola

Re: ATL : INVEST 94L - Computer Models

#1520 Postby Ivanhater » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:20 pm

Image
0 likes   


Return to “2009”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 115 guests