ATL: DEBBY - Post-Tropical

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gatorcane
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Re: Re:

#321 Postby gatorcane » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:27 pm

jeff wrote:
Aric Dunn wrote:only timr will tell. just some rotational dynamics ... will see but i dont se much north of the yucatsn


The circulation is ill defined and spans upwards of 150 miles as stated by wxman. NHC will track the broad center and not the vorticity centers that can/will rotate around the main broad center. Again this is very much like a large monsoon trough/depression...large and sprawling....it will take time to consolidate.

Things are actually playing out to some degree much like the models showed last week with a weak and broad low ejecting out of MX into the BOC (the broad low as done just that, but slightly more to the north and east than the models were showing last week). That slight NE ejection seems to have been the starting point of the differences between the models with respect to FL or the W Gulf. Ensemble means continue to favor the western Gulf with the GFS ensembles more split into the two camps. Hopefully some of this will clear up before NHC has to put out a 5 day forecast...luckily they have slow motion on their side.


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Yes as mentioned, it will be a slow process. Convection is on the decrease in a dramatic way this evening and the low is broad. It still has a long way to go before getting classified. Will be interesting how much convection decreases now that the heating of the day is lost over the Yucatan. A named system is possible but still would be this weekend not sooner more than likely. I don't see whatever comes of this being strong. That said, I will up my development chances from my thinking last night to around 50%.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 96L - Models

#322 Postby Rgv20 » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:31 pm

Ivanhater wrote:Just reviewing the Euro and Canadian from this afternoon....they are so close to getting picked up it is not even funny. Just where the center consolidates and how far north she gets is crucial....what a tough forecast.


Yeah it was very close but the fact that the ECMWF Ensemble Means have 1003mb low in the Western Gulf it leads me to believe that the Operational is on the right idea. I will be surprise if the Euro flips back to an eastern gulf solution.
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#323 Postby HouTXmetro » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:31 pm

Convection very weak at the moment. I will be interested to see where and if they start firing up again. IMO the longer it takes to develop... the more likely it gets pushed west. Just my opinion.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 96L - Models

#324 Postby GTStorm » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:32 pm

cycloneye wrote:18z GFS ensembles are all over the place.

Image

Uploaded with Imageshack.us


That kind of says, "we really have no clue", doesn't it....
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Re: ATL: INVEST 96L - Discussion

#325 Postby ROCK » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:37 pm

still that (whatever you want to call it) out NE of the Yucatan is under 20-30 knots of shear...also that anticyclone is sitting where the best track was progged,

http://tropic.ssec.wisc.edu/real-time/w ... oom=&time=
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Re: ATL: INVEST 96L - Discussion

#326 Postby jeff » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:39 pm

cycloneye wrote:jeff, in your estimation,how strong this system may get?


Easily and weak tropical storm...maybe a mid range tropical storm. If it sits over the Gulf and heads for the western Gulf could be a strong TS. Earlier SHIPS run today had it near 65kts, but the new 00Z run is 55kts peak.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 96L - Discussion

#327 Postby jeff » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:42 pm

Hurricaneman wrote:If this somehow relocates 200 miles or more farther east, would that possibly make the up and out scenerio that the GFS shows more likely


If the center did do that then yes, but there is little evidence of that possibility. One option would be for steady SW shear to result in center reformations toward the NE under deep convection as is so common int he Gulf, but this does not look likely in the longer ranges as shear relaxes and there is currently no deep convection on the NE side to help "tug" the center in that direction.
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Re: Re:

#328 Postby Aric Dunn » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:43 pm

gatorcane wrote:
jeff wrote:
Aric Dunn wrote:only timr will tell. just some rotational dynamics ... will see but i dont se much north of the yucatsn


The circulation is ill defined and spans upwards of 150 miles as stated by wxman. NHC will track the broad center and not the vorticity centers that can/will rotate around the main broad center. Again this is very much like a large monsoon trough/depression...large and sprawling....it will take time to consolidate.

Things are actually playing out to some degree much like the models showed last week with a weak and broad low ejecting out of MX into the BOC (the broad low as done just that, but slightly more to the north and east than the models were showing last week). That slight NE ejection seems to have been the starting point of the differences between the models with respect to FL or the W Gulf. Ensemble means continue to favor the western Gulf with the GFS ensembles more split into the two camps. Hopefully some of this will clear up before NHC has to put out a 5 day forecast...luckily they have slow motion on their side.


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Yes as mentioned, it will be a slow process. Convection is on the decrease in a dramatic way this evening and the low is broad. It still has a long way to go before getting classified. Will be interesting how much convection decreases now that the heating of the day is lost over the Yucatan. A named system is possible but still would be this weekend not sooner more than likely. I don't see whatever comes of this being strong. That said, I will up my development chances from my thinking last night to around 50%.
yes it will tske time for sir
e ... main point is 9 times out 10 look to deep convection in broad systems for something to consolidatee
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Re: ATL: INVEST 96L - Discussion

#329 Postby ozonepete » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:49 pm

"yes it will take time for sure ... main point is 9 times out 10 look to deep convection in broad systems for something to consolidate"

But you can't look for that at the expected diurnal minimum, right?
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Re: ATL: INVEST 96L - Discussion

#330 Postby ozonepete » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:50 pm

:uarrow: Especially when the Yucatan is involved with its almost daily MCCs developing over the peninsula which complicates visual analysis.
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#331 Postby Rgv20 » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:59 pm

I know its the NAM......Here is the new 0zNAM forecast valid for Monday Morning....It has it drifting west at the end of the run.

Image
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Re: ATL: INVEST 96L - Discussion

#332 Postby ozonepete » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:00 pm

That Mesoscale Convective Complex (MCC) over the Yucatan sure looks like it was a Mesoscale Convective Vortex (MCV), which are fairly common there due to sea-breeze front interactions. I don't think it has/had anything much to do with the overall circulation that is developing north or northeast of there. If you look at the satellite loops it is already getting absorbed into the broader circulation. Luckily the models won't get fooled by it either.
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#333 Postby Zanthe » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:02 pm

So...any guess on what the 2 AM advisory will say? Stay at 70 or 80? Go down to 40 or 50?

And if this goes to the east, it could have some serious impacts in Nova Scotia, right?
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Re: ATL: INVEST 96L - Models

#334 Postby djmikey » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:06 pm

This about sums it up right now! lol...remember this?

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/542/wtfim.jpg/
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Re: ATL: INVEST 96L - Discussion

#335 Postby Houstonia » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:08 pm

It is very frustrating when the Tallahassee NWS implies the system will move toward TX/LA (http://www.srh.noaa.gov/tlh/)and our own KTRK weather guy shows the system moving toward FLorida.

How can their forecasts diverge so much? We are all reading the same info, right??
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Re: ATL: INVEST 96L - Discussion

#336 Postby Zanthe » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:10 pm

Houstonia wrote:It is very frustrating when the Tallahassee NWS implies the system will move toward TX/LA (http://www.srh.noaa.gov/tlh/)and our own KTRK weather guy shows the system moving toward FLorida.

How can their forecasts diverge so much? We are all reading the same info, right??


We have no clue just might put people off.
:double:
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Re: ATL: INVEST 96L - Discussion

#337 Postby crimi481 » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:12 pm

I can only see a rotation in area aaprox 50b -100 miles WSW of Key west
Had to do zoomong to find it

http://www.ssec.wisc.edu/data/geo/index ... thod=flash
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Re: ATL: INVEST 96L - Discussion

#338 Postby cycloneye » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:13 pm

Here is the 00z TAFB Surface Analysis. They have the low at the same position as Best Track.

Image
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Re: Re:

#339 Postby NDG » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:27 pm

Rgv20 wrote:
NDG wrote:The much trusted TVCA/TVCN concensus model by the NHC:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b245/ ... z-tvca.jpg


Looks like they only used the GFS.....New runs of the UKMET and ECMWF make a left turn.


Yes, to be fair they probably used only the GFS, tomorrow's TVCA track should be more important.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 96L - Models

#340 Postby ROCK » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:32 pm

the TVCN includes a bunch of models including the EURO....but its weighted more towards the GFS....well thats how I understand it...
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