Texas Winter 2013-2014

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Re: Texas Winter 2013-2014

#1821 Postby BrokenGlassRepublicn » Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:01 pm

ravyrn wrote:Just south of Alvord on 287
Image

Strange way to park a car!
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#1822 Postby Texas Snowman » Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:49 pm

:uarrow: Hope no one was hurt in that.
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Re: Texas Winter 2013-2014

#1823 Postby katheria » Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:58 pm

dfw scanner on facebook, just posted a incredible video of ice coming off the top of a apt building in plano :double:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=671229996231199

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =1&theater

if anyone had been down there , they would have been seriously hurt or worse...

be careful if you go out !
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#1824 Postby Texas Snowman » Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:03 pm

Even with temperatures near or just above freezing, skies remain cloudy in Sherman/Denison. EPIC travel problems continue here in Grayson County.

Here is KXII-TV Facebook updates on road conditions in my area:

Sherman area, four hours ago: "UPDATE from Sherman police: dispatch advised Sgt. D.M. Hampton that commercial traffic has been closed through Sherman. He says no word on who made that decision. Hampton says Highway 75 is still slow-going with abandoned vehicles everywhere. Highway 82 is blocked both ways due to accidents and jackknifed semi-trucks. Hampton says roads are still dangerous and travel needs to be avoided."

Grayson County OEM, four hours ago: "US75 SB & NB still a problem. Hwy 5 out of Van Alstyne now stopped by accidents. US82 a parking lot. SH289 a skating rink and not treated. Name a road in Grayson County - it's a problem. #brokenrecord #stayoffroads"

Bryan County, OK (just across the Red River) from 12 noon: "UPDATE from Bryan County Emergency Manager James Dalton: Roads in Bryan County are the worst they've been. The roads are glazed over, making them extremely icy. He asks that drivers stay off the roads altogether, if possible; however, there are NO road closures at this time. Dalton says 69/75 is getting better because ODOT crews are using road graters and other vehicles to treat the highway, but the ODOT vehicles are having a hard time traveling. They are currently working an accident at the Highway 70 exit in Durant. Dalton says he's going to send me pictures of the roads soon.

Denison Dam/Hwy. 91, from Oklahoma HP an hour ago: "From OHP: AT THE REQUEST OF TEXAS DOT, SH91 WILL BE SHUT DOWN GOING TOWARD TEXAS. ODOT WILL BE PLACING A SIGN AT SH91 AT THE US69 OFF RAMP IN COLBERT ADVISING TRAFFIC OF THE CLOSURE. TEXAS DOT ADVISED THEY ARE HAVING NUMEROUS ACCIDENT CALLS ON SH91 JUST INTO TEXAS BECAUSE OF A LOW SPOT IN THE HIGHWAY. A LARGE NUMBER OF VEHICLES ARE TRYING TO USE SH91 HIGHWAY BECAUSE OF THE SEMI CONGESTION ON US75/US69 AT THE RED RIVER."

Cooke County (one county west of Sherman/Denison, where I-35 enters Texas) from 12 noon: "UPDATE from Cooke County Emergency Manager Ray Fletcher: Traffic is moving very slowly along I-35. All other roads, aside from I-35, are covered in ice and extremely dangerous. Highway 51 is closed to through-traffic from Era to Decatur due to road conditions there. People that live in that area of Highway 51 CAN get to their homes. There are multiple vehicles stranded along that part of Highway 51. TXDOT is working to sand I-35 and parts of Highway 82. Fletcher asks that those in Cooke County do not drive unless it's absolutely necessary."

Fannin County (one county east) from 12 noon: "UPDATE from Fannin County Emergency Manager Darrell Brewer: All roads are still covered with ice and treacherous, but none are closed. Travel still discouraged."
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Re:

#1825 Postby downsouthman1 » Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:19 pm

Texas Snowman wrote::uarrow: Hope no one was hurt in that.

Seeings how jokes are already being made about it. My apologies to the one who made the joke but I think such a joke is distasteful considering that the car flipping like that probably did result in an injury to at least the driver.
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Re: Texas Winter 2013-2014

#1826 Postby wxman57 » Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:27 pm

Portastorm wrote:
wxman57 wrote:I saved those GFS meteograms for Austin, Portastorm. The GFS actually did quite well with its Austin forecast. On the 4th, it had sub-freezing temps from 9PM Friday (6th) to near 6AM Sunday (33 hrs). And on Thursday morning at 12AM, the 5th, it had Austin temps dropping to 32F at 6pm Friday and staying below freezing until 8am Sunday (38 hrs).
(images deleted)


There you go again, using factual-supported arguments against my anecdotal-driven drivel! Stop that!!

Actually and all kidding aside, thanks for posting that. I am impressed by the GFS and what you showed there. I should have looked back at the information prior to opening my big mouth. :oops:


I didn't remember, myself, so I went back and took a look at some of the meteograms I'd saved. Hot here in Houston this afternoon, up to 50 degrees.
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Re: Re:

#1827 Postby BrokenGlassRepublicn » Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:29 pm

downsouthman1 wrote:
Texas Snowman wrote::uarrow: Hope no one was hurt in that.

Seeings how jokes are already being made about it. My apologies to the one who made the joke but I think such a joke is distasteful considering that the car flipping like that probably did result in an injury to at least the driver.

Apologies, I assumed that since the roof wasn't buckled and there is no broken glass, that likely no one was hurt.
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Re: Texas Winter 2013-2014

#1828 Postby Ntxw » Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:31 pm

wxman57 wrote:I didn't remember, myself, so I went back and took a look at some of the meteograms I'd saved. Hot here in Houston this afternoon, up to 50 degrees.


I see you are adjusting to the cold well, typically anything below 70 is frigid for you :cheesy:. Perhaps we can sway you the other way?

Nice video katheria, I'm sure that could be happening to many roofs around the metroplex since it's such a slow melt and it just slips under the weight.
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Re: Texas Winter 2013-2014

#1829 Postby Texas Snowman » Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:17 pm

:uarrow: All of that travel woe info has me thinking.

After three days of EPIC, UNPRECEDENTED travel woes where thousands of people have been all but stranded for hours on end in many North Texas counties (some for a couple of days), where does this sleet/ice storm stack up historically in North Texas weather annals?

This storm certainly belongs in the conversation with some of the greatest ice storms recorded in these parts. I've seen them all since 1979 when we moved to Grayson County. And I don't think I have ever seen the travel woes of the past three days.

* Feb. 2011 produced widespread travel woes during Super Bowl 45 week. There was some sleet, but more snow, and I don't remember travel being as bad as it has been the past three days.

* The Feb. 2003 storm in DFW was pretty tough on travel. So was the Nov. 1996 sleet storm here along the Red River.

* The Dec. 31, 1978/Jan. 1, 1979 ice storm was treacherous for the freezing rain (1" plus accumulations) but I don't think travel was as bad for as long.
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Re: Texas Winter 2013-2014

#1830 Postby Texas Snowman » Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:25 pm

Image
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Re: Texas Winter 2013-2014

#1831 Postby Ntxw » Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:41 pm

Texas Snowman wrote::uarrow: All of that travel woe info has me thinking.

After three days of EPIC, UNPRECEDENTED travel woes where thousands of people have been all but stranded for hours on end in many North Texas counties (some for a couple of days), where does this sleet/ice storm stack up historically in North Texas weather annals?

This storm certainly belongs in the conversation with some of the greatest ice storms recorded in these parts. I've seen them all since 1979 when we moved to Grayson County. And I don't think I have ever seen the travel woes of the past three days.


Here is where I have a question for the NWS. Before the storm began there was a poster here who asked what kind of warnings could we expect, I thought an ice storm warning would have been issued for the I-35 corridor and to points east. I still believe it was warranted as it was pretty evident a paralyzing ice storm was about to take shape. Yet the FW NWS stuck with a winter storm warning. Now I don't know their criteria for an ice storm exactly but usually it's a quarter inch or more. To the public the word "ice storm" would click to them more serious than "winter storm" which they would connect with snow. Many of the forecasting offices adjacent in Oklahoma and Arkansas went with the ice storm warning but not FW. Curious...

But it is not all that, the thanksgiving week complacency and the media's lateness to latch on only escalated the problem.
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#1832 Postby BigB0882 » Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:44 pm

Didn't someone say that an Ice Storm is only issued for an event that is predicted to be all freezing rain. Once any other frozen precip is involved, it is a Winter Storm. Since sleet was a strong possibility, they went with Winter Storm. I think I read about this.
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#1833 Postby Texas Snowman » Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:55 pm

True, much more played into this storm's impact than just the weather itself.

Here in Grayson County, we got 1/4" of freezing rain accumulation or less, so there weren't as many power outages here as further SE (Tom Bean, Whitewright, Howe, Van Alstyne, and other areas of SE GC had some power outage issues).

But as you see from the NWS graphic above, we got 2-4" of sleet in the Sherman/Denison area. Since moving here in 1979, I've seen that amount of sleet here in the Red River Valley on a few other occasions. But never with this kind of travel misery though.

I've got a couple of law enforcement friends who say it's the worst they've ever seen as far as travel goes. And I've heard reports of some people being stuck/stranded in their vehicles for 24+ hours in here in Grayson County. That's unprecedented here.

And I'm not just talking about a few people here and there. At its worst on Friday evening and yesterday, I'd say that there were hundreds - if not thousands - of vehicles barely moving or not moving at all on Hwy. 75 and Hwy. 82 here in GC. I've never - NEVER - seen anything remotely close to that.
Last edited by Texas Snowman on Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re:

#1834 Postby Ntxw » Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:57 pm

BigB0882 wrote:Didn't someone say that an Ice Storm is only issued for an event that is predicted to be all freezing rain. Once any other frozen precip is involved, it is a Winter Storm. Since sleet was a strong possibility, they went with Winter Storm. I think I read about this.


I don't think it's as black and white as that. I do understand a winter storm warning can also include significant amount of ice and snow. Again adjacent forecasting areas put up the ice storm warning, which I think still fits with areas to the east of I-35 as the majority of the precip there was freezing rain. It's not a ridicule just a question, both are troublesome in their own right but personally I think the wording itself would've caught their attention a bit better.
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#1835 Postby BigB0882 » Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:59 pm

I agree that an Ice Storm warning sounds much more serious. Especially for those of us down south where ice storms have caused us mayhem more often than snow storms. Winter Weather, to most people, just means "hey, it might SNOW!"
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#1836 Postby Texas Snowman » Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:01 pm

TxDOT moved in heavy duty road graders during the overnight hours and were able to make significant progress late this morning and afternoon on Hwy. 75. But refreeze is approaching here in Sherman/Denison with sunset and the highways will be rough again overnight.

And the side streets and parking lots in Texoma are still ice skating rinks. Every single school in this region is closed again tomorrow.
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Re:

#1837 Postby Texas Snowman » Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:05 pm

BigB0882 wrote:I agree that an Ice Storm warning sounds much more serious. Especially for those of us down south where ice storms have caused us mayhem more often than snow storms. Winter Weather, to most people, just means "hey, it might SNOW!"


:uarrow: True dat. Snow can still produce widespread, longstanding travel problems - see the Super Bowl 45 week back in 2011. But usually not as bad or as for long.

But sleet is such a different animal. After living through a few sleet storms, I told someone this on Friday morning, that it would be slippery but drivable Friday morning into Friday afternoon.

But then the traffic, the effect of the sun overhead, etc. would cause the sleet to pack down into a solid sheet of very slick ice. And when that happened, driving would be all but impossible and that sheet of ice would not go away for several days.

Even then, I didn't think I would see semi-trucks and vehicles stuck/stranded for miles.
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#1838 Postby Ntxw » Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:14 pm

:uarrow: I'm sure many kids this evening (outside of grayson county :P) are wondering if they will get tomorrow off too. My guess is when the districts go out in the morning they will find slick spots still from the melting today and especially in Tarrant, Parts of Dallas, Collin, and Denton counties. I'm not sure what's out there in Rockwall county at this hour, but I think a delayed start is a possibility with highs likely staying up in the mid to upper 30s we'll see more melting but still residual ice during the day. Wonder if they might just let them off another full day?
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Re: Re:

#1839 Postby TheProfessor » Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:17 pm

Ntxw wrote:
BigB0882 wrote:Didn't someone say that an Ice Storm is only issued for an event that is predicted to be all freezing rain. Once any other frozen precip is involved, it is a Winter Storm. Since sleet was a strong possibility, they went with Winter Storm. I think I read about this.


I don't think it's as black and white as that. I do understand a winter storm warning can also include significant amount of ice and snow. Again adjacent forecasting areas put up the ice storm warning, which I think still fits with areas to the east of I-35 as the majority of the precip there was freezing rain. It's not a ridicule just a question, both are troublesome in their own right but personally I think the wording itself would've caught their attention a bit better.



Well I'm east of I-35 ( by only 10 or 20 miles) and we got 3+ inches of sleet here. So to me a winter warning was appropriate here.
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Re:

#1840 Postby gboudx » Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:43 pm

Ntxw wrote::uarrow: I'm sure many kids this evening (outside of grayson county :P) are wondering if they will get tomorrow off too. My guess is when the districts go out in the morning they will find slick spots still from the melting today and especially in Tarrant, Parts of Dallas, Collin, and Denton counties. I'm not sure what's out there in Rockwall county at this hour, but I think a delayed start is a possibility with highs likely staying up in the mid to upper 30s we'll see more melting but still residual ice during the day. Wonder if they might just let them off another full day?


In our area the roads are mostly dry, however we've had quite a bit of fog develop lately. I expect there will be school.
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