Seasonal Indicators (Beyond Day 16): Instability / SST's / MSLP / Steering / Sal

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Re: 2016 indicators: Instability / SST's / MSLP / Steering / Sal

#781 Postby Big O » Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:01 pm

ninel conde wrote:By mid august alot of other factors will be getting more negative. 6/2/1 might be way too high. http://moe.met.fsu.edu/tcgengifs/gfs/20 ... /slp60.png

I expect pressures to continue to rise over the atlantic tropics and a huge flood of bone dry dust in aug/sept. eastpac looks super favorable in aug/sept which will increase shear even more in the atlantic. That low in se canada is the most multi-year long persistent feature i have ever seen. Winter-like pattern will become firmly established in the heart of cane season.
a- i expect another early shutdown to the season
b-no major US landfall
c-very unlikely to see a hurricane landfall
d-bone dry california winter
e-JB's high impact atlantic season prediction isnt going to pan out.


Shocking. A negative outlook coming from ninel conde. :roll: :P

But honestly, 6/2/1 is laughable. I'll defer to wxman57 (and many other pro mets for that matter) on the prospects for this season.
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Re: 2016 indicators: Instability / SST's / MSLP / Steering / Sal

#782 Postby Hurricaneman » Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:27 pm

I'd bet more on a 11\6\3 the rest of the hurricane season to be honest, but its not the number that matters its where they go

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Re: 2016 indicators: Instability / SST's / MSLP / Steering / Sal

#783 Postby Hammy » Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:27 pm

Big O wrote:
ninel conde wrote:By mid august alot of other factors will be getting more negative. 6/2/1 might be way too high. http://moe.met.fsu.edu/tcgengifs/gfs/20 ... /slp60.png

I expect pressures to continue to rise over the atlantic tropics and a huge flood of bone dry dust in aug/sept. eastpac looks super favorable in aug/sept which will increase shear even more in the atlantic. That low in se canada is the most multi-year long persistent feature i have ever seen. Winter-like pattern will become firmly established in the heart of cane season.
a- i expect another early shutdown to the season
b-no major US landfall
c-very unlikely to see a hurricane landfall
d-bone dry california winter
e-JB's high impact atlantic season prediction isnt going to pan out.


Shocking. A negative outlook coming from ninel conde. :roll: :P

But honestly, 6/2/1 is laughable. I'll defer to wxman57 (and many other pro mets for that matter) on the prospects for this season.


I think the most laughable thing here (and thus proving the poster as nothing but a troll) is the "another early shutdown" notion--when was the last season we had an early end to start with? There were two hurricanes after September last year and 2014 (both years included a Cat 4), four storms after September in 2013 (including one in December), Sandy and a few other hurricanes in October, two majors in 2011, etc. In fact the last early shutdown was 2006 with Isaac dissipating October 2, and the last year nothing was tracked after September was 1993.
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ninel conde

Re: 2016 indicators: Instability / SST's / MSLP / Steering / Sal

#784 Postby ninel conde » Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:44 pm

WPBWeather wrote:
TheStormExpert wrote:Well according to ninel the season is officially over, no more storms! :rofl:

Seriously though, it may not be an active season like some were expecting or hoping for, but BE WARNED! All it takes is one bad storm in the wrong place at the wrong time to change some or many peoples thoughts and views on the season.

Last year that one storm was "Joaquin" enough said!

In 2014 it was "Gonzalo" though not as bad as it could have been to earn retirement.

Hope everyone is having a Happy July 4th!
:flag:



Ninel really has no sound science to back his/her positions. Just selected cherry picked one off data. Don't know if he/she is a troll just trying to throw bombs out, but its been happening for far longer than you've been posting here.



Just cant agree. Low pressure over se canada protects the entire coast which is why so few canes have hit anywhere since 2005. Low pressure over SE canada also means the sw atlantic, gom, and west carib will be unfavorable. That low just opens the door for a sweeping wnw flow across the east coast well out into the atlantic. If you expect to see them favorable you need high pressure locked over se canada/nw atlantic. and i mean locked, not a transient 2 day high. Based on the same science i said last season would have no major landfalls and no fla cane hits. Unless that low is replaced with a high i expect the same this season.
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Re: 2016 indicators: Instability / SST's / MSLP / Steering / Sal

#785 Postby WPBWeather » Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:04 pm

ninel conde wrote:
WPBWeather wrote:
TheStormExpert wrote:Well according to ninel the season is officially over, no more storms! :rofl:

Seriously though, it may not be an active season like some were expecting or hoping for, but BE WARNED! All it takes is one bad storm in the wrong place at the wrong time to change some or many peoples thoughts and views on the season.

Last year that one storm was "Joaquin" enough said!

In 2014 it was "Gonzalo" though not as bad as it could have been to earn retirement.

Hope everyone is having a Happy July 4th!
:flag:



Ninel really has no sound science to back his/her positions. Just selected cherry picked one off data. Don't know if he/she is a troll just trying to throw bombs out, but its been happening for far longer than you've been posting here.



Just cant agree. Low pressure over se canada protects the entire coast which is why so few canes have hit anywhere since 2005. Low pressure over SE canada also means the sw atlantic, gom, and west carib will be unfavorable. That low just opens the door for a sweeping wnw flow across the east coast well out into the atlantic. If you expect to see them favorable you need high pressure locked over se canada/nw atlantic. and i mean locked, not a transient 2 day high. Based on the same science i said last season would have no major landfalls and no fla cane hits. Unless that low is replaced with a high i expect the same this season.


Ninel--you have NO science here. Just your opinions.
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Re: 2016 indicators: Instability / SST's / MSLP / Steering / Sal

#786 Postby ninel conde » Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:04 pm

Hammy wrote:
Big O wrote:
ninel conde wrote:By mid august alot of other factors will be getting more negative. 6/2/1 might be way too high. http://moe.met.fsu.edu/tcgengifs/gfs/20 ... /slp60.png

I expect pressures to continue to rise over the atlantic tropics and a huge flood of bone dry dust in aug/sept. eastpac looks super favorable in aug/sept which will increase shear even more in the atlantic. That low in se canada is the most multi-year long persistent feature i have ever seen. Winter-like pattern will become firmly established in the heart of cane season.
a- i expect another early shutdown to the season
b-no major US landfall
c-very unlikely to see a hurricane landfall
d-bone dry california winter
e-JB's high impact atlantic season prediction isnt going to pan out.


Shocking. A negative outlook coming from ninel conde. :roll: :P

But honestly, 6/2/1 is laughable. I'll defer to wxman57 (and many other pro mets for that matter) on the prospects for this season.


I think the most laughable thing here (and thus proving the poster as nothing but a troll) is the "another early shutdown" notion--when was the last season we had an early end to start with? There were two hurricanes after September last year and 2014 (both years included a Cat 4), four storms after September in 2013 (including one in December), Sandy and a few other hurricanes in October, two majors in 2011, etc. In fact the last early shutdown was 2006 with Isaac dissipating October 2, and the last year nothing was tracked after September was 1993.



I would say last season did shutdown early. Nothing formed in Oct and 1 formed in nov.
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Re: 2016 indicators: Instability / SST's / MSLP / Steering / Sal

#787 Postby ninel conde » Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:07 pm

WPBWeather wrote:
ninel conde wrote:
WPBWeather wrote:

Ninel really has no sound science to back his/her positions. Just selected cherry picked one off data. Don't know if he/she is a troll just trying to throw bombs out, but its been happening for far longer than you've been posting here.



Just cant agree. Low pressure over se canada protects the entire coast which is why so few canes have hit anywhere since 2005. Low pressure over SE canada also means the sw atlantic, gom, and west carib will be unfavorable. That low just opens the door for a sweeping wnw flow across the east coast well out into the atlantic. If you expect to see them favorable you need high pressure locked over se canada/nw atlantic. and i mean locked, not a transient 2 day high. Based on the same science i said last season would have no major landfalls and no fla cane hits. Unless that low is replaced with a high i expect the same this season.


Ninel--you have NO science here. Just your opinions.


Simply cant agree. low pressure over se canada is quite protective of the coast. Just a fact.
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Re: 2016 indicators: Instability / SST's / MSLP / Steering / Sal

#788 Postby Hammy » Tue Jul 05, 2016 12:06 am

ninel conde wrote:I would say last season did shutdown early. Nothing formed in Oct and 1 formed in nov.


You seem to be twisting things to fit your ever-changing definition of how things are inactive in some way or another whey they aren't. I wouldn't call having the strongest storm in five years, and the strongest October storm since 1998, to be an early shutdown, especially when combined with the first November hurricane since 2009. October/November of 2015 (and 2014 for that matter) had both higher ACE and more hurricanes than September, so in both years the tail end of the season proved to be busier than the peak. Last year you claimed the MDR would be dead, that there were no 'true' hurricanes because they were all forming north of 23-25N (this seems to be changing as well depending on how convenient it is.) Danny formed then you claimed it didn't count because it was east of 60, then Joaquin formed and you claimed it didn't count because it didn't make landfall in the U.S. These posts are getting quite tiring, and are cluttering the forum and essentially blocking any meaningful discussion. There is also absolutely nothing backing your "permanent trof" points, given that the trough has not been permanent, nor is it anything unusual for the first two months of the season (see my post about 1998/2004/2008.) There were clear mitigating factors in 2013, being much cooler and wetter weather along the entire eastern half of the US (the southeast is now in drought/record heat, similar to previous active years of 1998, 2005, and 2010), as well as significantly below normal instability (non-existent this year, it's higher than the last three years), significantly above normal pressures (again this year is lower than the last three years), and much below normal moisture content (and yet again this year is above the last three years. 2014-15 were also expected to be quiet, so you can't use those for your back-patting. And rather than trying to explain why you think the (non-existent) east coast trough (it's more of a northeastern linear pattern overtop of high pressure) will remain "permanent" this year you are simply repeating your one-line posts that you disagree with everybody else posting, rather than offering some sort of meaningful discussion.
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Re: 2016 indicators: Instability / SST's / MSLP / Steering / Sal

#789 Postby hurricanehunter69 » Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:05 am

You would think by the tone of some posters that another El Nino was setting back in....When technically, we're still "actually" ahead of 2005's pace. 2005 only had three named storms by this date, and even had a 15 day lull of it's own from June 13'th to June 28. While I don't think any of us will see another 2005 in our lifetimes, I still like our chances of seeing 1 to 2 in July, 3 to 5 in August, 5 to 7 in September, 2 to 4 in October and 1 to 3 the rest of the way.....7 to 9 Hurricanes, 2 to 4 major. As for land falling hurricanes...? Who knows? However, I do know that the probability of a land falling hurricane naturally increases when greater numbers of them form.
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Re: 2016 indicators: Instability / SST's / MSLP / Steering / Sal

#790 Postby Hammy » Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:27 am

hurricanehunter69 wrote:You would think by the tone of some posters that another El Nino was setting back in....When technically, we're still "actually" ahead of 2005's pace. 2005 only had three named storms by this date, and even had a 15 day lull of it's own from June 13'th to June 28. While I don't think any of us will see another 2005 in our lifetimes, I still like our chances of seeing 1 to 2 in July, 3 to 5 in August, 5 to 7 in September, 2 to 4 in October and 1 to 3 the rest of the way.....7 to 9 Hurricanes, 2 to 4 major. As for land falling hurricanes...? Who knows? However, I do know that the probability of a land falling hurricane naturally increases when greater numbers of them form.


I'll add that ironically the lack of phantom storms may be increasing a few posters' impatience. We're used to seeing 2-3 phantom MDR storms per run around this time so that they are showing nothing must mean conditions are extra unfavorable, when in all likelihood the models are probably (finally) reading the atmosphere correctly.
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Re: 2016 indicators: Instability / SST's / MSLP / Steering / Sal

#791 Postby tolakram » Tue Jul 05, 2016 7:33 am

Let's take it down a notch or two please. Opinions have been given and we'll all see how it turns out. If you have a disagreement you are free to give reasoning but avoid attacks on other posters.

I specifically doubt that the pattern will not change over the summer, I'm not sure where the weather channel forecaster gets that notion or the science to back it up. I also don't understand why common low pressure over Canada has anything to do with seasonal performance. As far as I can tell that is a semi permanent feature, there's nothing unusual about it, and explains why it's so rare to get an East coast hit, thankfully.

If the science was that easy then forecasting hurricane season would be easy as well.
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Re: 2016 indicators: Instability / SST's / MSLP / Steering / Sal

#792 Postby tolakram » Tue Jul 05, 2016 7:59 am

If you care to compare ... and I hate to bring up 2005 but it's there and we know what happened.

2005 Surface Maps, you can step all the way through the season. This link starts on June 1st.




You can do the same with the 500mb maps.

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Re: 2016 indicators: Instability / SST's / MSLP / Steering / Sal

#793 Postby Darvince » Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:15 am

Something I think we all need to remember is that the Atlantic is a very large basin, and if one part of it is shut down (like the CARIB and GOM last year) that doesn't necessarily mean that nothing will happen throughout the entire ocean.
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Re: 2016 indicators: Instability / SST's / MSLP / Steering / Sal

#794 Postby TheAustinMan » Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:48 am

Just a brief reminder on monthly averages here, and tallies so far this year. Figures are by when storms formed. -
Tropical and Subtropical Storms
Month 1995-2016 Average ... without 2005/1995 2016
JAN 0.00 0.00 1
FEB 0.00 0.00 0
MAR 0.00 0.00 0
APR 0.04 0.05 0
MAY 0.29 0.32 1
JUN 0.76 0.74 2
JUL 1.52 1.21 ?
AUG 4.00 3.79 ?
SEP 4.19 4.21 ?
OCT 2.48 2.16 ?
NOV 0.67 0.58 ?
DEC 0.19 0.16 ?
TOT 14.14 13.22 ?

Hurricanes, Including Majors
Month 1995-2016 Average ... without 2005/1995 2016
JAN 0.00 0.00 1
FEB 0.00 0.00 0
MAR 0.00 0.00 0
APR 0.00 0.00 0
MAY 0.00 0.00 0
JUN 0.19 0.16 0
JUL 0.67 0.53 ?
AUG 1.95 1.84 ?
SEP 2.90 2.79 ?
OCT 1.24 1.05 ?
NOV 0.43 0.42 ?
DEC 0.00 0.00 ?
TOT 7.38 6.79 ?

Major Hurricanes (Cat 3+)
Month 1995-2016 Average ... without 2005/1995 2016
JAN 0.00 0.00 0
FEB 0.00 0.00 0
MAR 0.00 0.00 0
APR 0.00 0.00 0
MAY 0.0 0.00 0
JUN 0.00 0.00 0
JUL 0.24 0.16 ?
AUG 1.00 0.95 ?
SEP 1.52 1.33 ?
OCT 0.52 0.38 ?
NOV 0.10 0.11 ?
DEC 0.00 0.00 ?
TOT 3.38 2.93 ?
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Re: 2016 indicators: Instability / SST's / MSLP / Steering / Sal

#795 Postby tarheelprogrammer » Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:10 pm

Quick question about 2013. I did not follow that season much but it seems like so much was in favor of an active season what happened?
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Re: Seasonal Indicators (Beyond Day 15): Instability / SST's / MSLP / Steering / Sal

#796 Postby cycloneye » Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:13 pm

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Re: 2016 indicators: Instability / SST's / MSLP / Steering / Sal

#797 Postby Ntxw » Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:38 pm

tarheelprogrammer wrote:Quick question about 2013. I did not follow that season much but it seems like so much was in favor of an active season what happened?


On the predictions side it was the lemming effect. Im not sure what source began the snowball, but it was the first year to be forecasted ENSO neutral since 2005. This was one of the factors. Assumptions were then made a 2005esque season could happen thus the predictions. Then mother nature humbled everyone.
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Re: 2016 indicators: Instability / SST's / MSLP / Steering / Sal

#798 Postby tarheelprogrammer » Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:43 pm

Ntxw wrote:
tarheelprogrammer wrote:Quick question about 2013. I did not follow that season much but it seems like so much was in favor of an active season what happened?


On the predictions side it was the lemming effect. Im not sure what source began the snowball, but it was the first year to be forecasted ENSO neutral since 2005. This was one of the factors. Assumptions were then made a 2005esque season could happen thus the predictions. Then mother nature humbled everyone.


So, was it shear? Colder water temps? What was the part that killed the season?
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Re: 2016 indicators: Instability / SST's / MSLP / Steering / Sal

#799 Postby Ntxw » Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:49 pm

tarheelprogrammer wrote:
Ntxw wrote:
tarheelprogrammer wrote:Quick question about 2013. I did not follow that season much but it seems like so much was in favor of an active season what happened?


On the predictions side it was the lemming effect. Im not sure what source began the snowball, but it was the first year to be forecasted ENSO neutral since 2005. This was one of the factors. Assumptions were then made a 2005esque season could happen thus the predictions. Then mother nature humbled everyone.


So, was it shear? Colder water temps? What was the part that killed the season?


It was mutltitude of issues. High pressures, lots of dry air, some shear. Globe as a whole was experiencing below normal ACE
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Re: 2016 indicators: Instability / SST's / MSLP / Steering / Sal

#800 Postby tarheelprogrammer » Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:59 pm

Ntxw wrote:
tarheelprogrammer wrote:
Ntxw wrote:
On the predictions side it was the lemming effect. Im not sure what source began the snowball, but it was the first year to be forecasted ENSO neutral since 2005. This was one of the factors. Assumptions were then made a 2005esque season could happen thus the predictions. Then mother nature humbled everyone.


So, was it shear? Colder water temps? What was the part that killed the season?


It was mutltitude of issues. High pressures, lots of dry air, some shear. Globe as a whole was experiencing below normal ACE


Thanks I was just wondering I ran across an old video predicting the 2013 season made by Levi Cowan. Thought I entered an alternate dimension. :lol:
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