ATL: IRMA - Post-Tropical - Discussion

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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#8261 Postby stormreader » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:43 pm

Shell Mound wrote:
RL3AO wrote:
SoupBone wrote:When's the last time the U.S. had a cat 5 landfall? Most weaken before they hit.


Andrew. Labor Day (Florida Keys) and Camille are the others.

It is important to note that none of those earlier landfalling Category-5 hurricanes even neared Irma's size. Camille was only marginally larger than Andrew at landfall, and the 1935 hurricane was more compact even than 2004's Charley. Irma is much more similar to 2004's Frances or 1999's Floyd, both of which were of similar size to Irma's while just east of the Bahamas. Of course, Irma is just as or even more intense than those two cyclones ever were. Given the recent completion of the eyewall replacement cycle, the radius of hurricane-force winds is likely to increase even further, especially once the pressure gradient weakens a bit as Irma's north-northwest turn commences. Hurricane-force winds could very well extend almost one hundred miles from the eye, and gale-force winds almost two hundred miles, by the time Irma crosses the middle to lower Keys. Accounting for the girth of the system, even a weaker solution, say, 120 to 125 knots (140 to 145 mph) in the Keys would bring tremendous storm-surge and wind-related effects over a very broad area, including high tides along both coasts of the mainland, well to the north of the Keys. At this point, the only thing that could result in a weaker strike is Cuba, and only marginally so. The chance of a Category-5 landfall on the Keys and Everglades National Park, and of a upper-end Category-4 impact to the Naples and Marco Island vicinities, is far greater than one would wish it to be.

Great point. All three were smallish. The most intense one (Labor Day 1935 Keys) was extremely small. This storm seems like it was transported out of the western Pacific for sustainability. Strength may be more like a couple of recent monsters from the Eastern Pacific which harmlessly moved out to sea.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#8262 Postby JBCycloneStan » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:43 pm

Looks like ReCON so far has found only 125 knots for SFMR. Do we know what part of the eye it travelled through?
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#8263 Postby Stangfriik » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:44 pm

Stangfriik wrote:Apologies for the lack of proper terminology but that front or whatever it is thats bringing us rain in New Smyrna right now seems to extend all the way to the gulf. Does this affect the steering pattern of Irma?


Boards moving to fast lol. Curious if someone could answer this
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#8264 Postby stormreader » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:45 pm

jasons wrote:
ROCK wrote:
jasons wrote:This is not the kind of storm you want to chase. Period.

Yeah if you are not a seasoned vet cane chaser I wouldn't chase this one. Start with a cat 1 and work your way up..js :eek:


There are some seasoned chasers in the Keys, and honestly I think they are crazy.


As crazy as it seems, you know how a chaser is. He lives his whole life to experience major hurricanes. It would probably kill him to miss this one. I know, bad choice of words!
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Recon Discussion Thread

#8265 Postby meriland29 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:46 pm

Sciencerocks wrote:
BYG Jacob wrote:Thought I saw 144 kt SFMR somewhere in there, may be wrong.



That was the earlier flight into the storm this morning.

The highest smrf now is 123 knots.



So she is weakening significantly? Thought 155mph
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#8266 Postby KWT » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:46 pm

stormreader wrote:
bjackrian wrote:
Meteorcane wrote:
That is estimated pressure and usually has a negative bias, drop will probably be 3-4 mb higher


925 mb with 10 kts of wind on the eye drop.

Small drop 2 mb's. Storm structure seems improved some, core. Tonight is the night to watch for more important pressure falls.


I suspect strengthening is going to be limited by its approach to Cuba, landfall probably not too far away either tonight and we may briefly see some frictonal strengthening which maybe just enough to push it back to a 5 before landfall. After that alot will depend on exactly how deep into Cuba it goes.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Main Recon Thread (Data only)

#8267 Postby Sciencerocks » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:46 pm

000
URNT15 KWBC 082139
NOAA2 2311A IRMA HDOB 14 20170908
212930 2236N 07538W 6957 03055 9899 +108 //// 160079 082 057 009 01
213000 2238N 07536W 6957 03059 9902 +110 //// 158074 074 058 008 01
213030 2239N 07534W 6957 03063 9915 +104 //// 153076 078 056 010 01
213100 2240N 07532W 6952 03075 9923 +101 //// 155073 076 054 015 01
213130 2241N 07530W 6952 03076 9930 +098 //// 151086 091 054 009 01
213200 2242N 07529W 6961 03071 9929 +107 +100 150091 092 054 006 00
213230 2243N 07527W 6958 03082 9933 +110 +090 150086 086 054 003 00
213300 2244N 07525W 6959 03085 9950 +099 +095 151088 088 051 003 00
213330 2245N 07523W 6961 03087 9952 +102 +098 151084 085 050 003 00
213400 2246N 07521W 6961 03091 9957 +101 +095 153084 085 049 004 00
213430 2247N 07519W 6960 03097 9964 +101 +090 152081 083 047 005 00
213500 2248N 07517W 6960 03102 9963 +106 +084 150078 079 047 005 00
213530 2249N 07516W 6955 03115 9968 +107 +080 151076 077 047 004 00
213600 2250N 07514W 6954 03121 9975 +106 +080 151074 075 045 005 00
213630 2251N 07512W 6957 03119 9982 +103 +083 148074 074 043 006 00
213700 2252N 07510W 6963 03116 9992 +099 +085 148073 074 043 006 03
213730 2253N 07508W 6957 03127 9988 +105 +085 147071 072 041 007 03
213800 2254N 07506W 6957 03129 9988 +107 +081 148069 070 /// /// 03
213830 2255N 07504W 6967 03122 9993 +106 +084 146068 069 /// /// 03
213900 2256N 07502W 6961 03132 9995 +109 +080 146067 067 /// /// 03
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#8268 Postby shawn6304 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:46 pm

ROCK wrote:
fci wrote:
ROCK wrote:yeah the west movement has stopped to me and I suspect the models were picking up on this jog and shifted west to compensate. Would not be surprised if they swung a tad east now on tonight's runs with Gonzo flying. Personally, until the NWS can pin point an actual track they are going on best guess in winds for Miami. If she does shift east those forecasts will need to be amended to show increased impacts....JMO...


Are you getting a feel for a shift a bit east or is it becoming established that the westward movement has sealed the west movement from today to be firm?


My feel really doesn't count. The NWS NHC is what matters However given I do have an opinion on track..lol I am leaning dead center up the spine of FL...Stormgeo track similar...and yes slowing down due to reaching the end of the ridge...NW then N movement upcoming sooner rather than later..JMO..personally all of FL is about to be decimated and parts uninhabitable...JMHO..




My opinion is worth less then yours rock but i agree with you my gut is saying middle , i think if vegas was running odds they would be with us too.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#8269 Postby Centralflamama » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:47 pm

ROCK wrote:
fci wrote:
ROCK wrote:yeah the west movement has stopped to me and I suspect the models were picking up on this jog and shifted west to compensate. Would not be surprised if they swung a tad east now on tonight's runs with Gonzo flying. Personally, until the NWS can pin point an actual track they are going on best guess in winds for Miami. If she does shift east those forecasts will need to be amended to show increased impacts....JMO...[/quote

Are you getting a feel for a shift a bit east or is it becoming established that the westward movement has sealed the west movement from today to be firm?


My feel really doesn't count. The NWS NHC is what matters However given I do have an opinion on track..lol I am leaning dead center up the spine of FL...Stormgeo track similar...and yes slowing down due to reaching the end of the ridge...NW then N movement upcoming sooner rather than later..JMO..personally all of FL is about to be decimated and parts uninhabitable...JMHO..



All of Florida decimated? That's pretty intense :( hopefully our house makes it, we weren't told to evacuate.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Main Recon Thread (Data only)

#8270 Postby Sciencerocks » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:47 pm

000
URNT12 KWBC 082141
VORTEX DATA MESSAGE AL112017
A. 08/21:13:46Z
B. 22 deg 06 min N
076 deg 41 min W
C. 700 mb 2455 m
D. 123 kt
E. 313 deg 17 nm
F. 039 deg 139 kt
G. 309 deg 21 nm
H. 925 mb
I. 13 C / 3066 m
J. 20 C / 3068 m
K. 11 C / NA
L. CLOSED
M. C40
N. 1234 / 7
O. 0.01 / 1 nm
P. NOAA2 2311A IRMA OB 09
MAX FL WIND 139 KT 309 / 21 NM 21:08:05Z
MAX FL TEMP 21 C 314 / 6 NM FROM FL CNTR
CNTR DROPSONDE SFC WIND 150 / 10 KTS
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#8271 Postby Airboy » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:47 pm

JBCycloneStan wrote:Looks like ReCON so far has found only 125 knots for SFMR. Do we know what part of the eye it travelled through?


In to the eye from NW out to the NE
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#8272 Postby stormreader » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:48 pm

KWT wrote:
stormreader wrote:
bjackrian wrote:
925 mb with 10 kts of wind on the eye drop.

Small drop 2 mb's. Storm structure seems improved some, core. Tonight is the night to watch for more important pressure falls.


I suspect strengthening is going to be limited by its approach to Cuba, landfall probably not too far away either tonight and we may briefly see some frictonal strengthening which maybe just enough to push it back to a 5 before landfall. After that alot will depend on exactly how deep into Cuba it goes.

Checking closely myself. Talk of the storm slowing, perhaps a tad less west movement, might ensure its core stays off the Cuban coast. But going to be very close.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#8273 Postby tolakram » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:49 pm

Stangfriik wrote:
Stangfriik wrote:Apologies for the lack of proper terminology but that front or whatever it is thats bringing us rain in New Smyrna right now seems to extend all the way to the gulf. Does this affect the steering pattern of Irma?


Boards moving to fast lol. Curious if someone could answer this


I'm giving you an amateur explanation, I am not a met.

There are a couple of upper level lows heading SE towards the gulf, you can see them in the water vapor loop.

https://weather.msfc.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/get-goes?satellite=GOES-E%20CONUS&lat=25&lon=-80&info=wv&zoom=4&width=1600&height=800&quality=90&type=Animation&palette=wv1.pal&numframes=30&mapcolor=black

For some of the best visual explanations take time to watch Tropical Tidbit videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gVFeGLROmA
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#8274 Postby Hurricane Andrew » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:49 pm

My gut has now been right 3/3 times for Irma...geez. Recon doesn't seem to be finding C5 winds yet, at least.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#8275 Postby meriland29 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:49 pm

So she has weakened a bit?
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#8276 Postby Weatherhorse » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:49 pm

jasons wrote:
ROCK wrote:
jasons wrote:This is not the kind of storm you want to chase. Period.

Yeah if you are not a seasoned vet cane chaser I wouldn't chase this one. Start with a cat 1 and work your way up..js :eek:


There are some seasoned chasers in the Keys, and honestly I think they are crazy.

I hope they are seasoned swimmers too...
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Recon Discussion Thread

#8277 Postby Extratropical94 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:49 pm

meriland29 wrote:
Sciencerocks wrote:
BYG Jacob wrote:Thought I saw 144 kt SFMR somewhere in there, may be wrong.



That was the earlier flight into the storm this morning.

The highest smrf now is 123 knots.



So she is weakening significantly? Thought 155mph


The upgrade to 155mph was probably based on the single unflagged SFMR of 137 in between several flagged 120-130 kt readings.
So it's unlikely that recon will find a closed ring around the center with 155mph+ winds. We might get a similar reading when the plane penetrates the northern part of the storm.

Even if we don't, she's not really weakening. Last mission had plenty of center passes with only 100-110 kt SFMRs.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#8278 Postby Sciencerocks » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:49 pm

JBCycloneStan wrote:Looks like ReCON so far has found only 125 knots for SFMR. Do we know what part of the eye it travelled through?



Northwest
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#8279 Postby AutoPenalti » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:50 pm

meriland29 wrote:So she has weakened a bit?

No.
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Re: ATL: IRMA - Hurricane - Discussion

#8280 Postby KBBOCA » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:51 pm

Wow, I know quite a lot of FL Hurricane history, but I really hadn't realized the discrepancy in major hits between these two 51-year periods. I knew the 50s were active years in FL... but honestly surprised. Again, it just reminds us that most in FL have never experienced a major.

 https://twitter.com/philklotzbach/status/906272869990019072


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