ATL: FLORENCE - Post-Tropical - Discussion

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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Advisories

#1521 Postby cycloneye » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:49 pm

BULLETIN
Hurricane Florence Advisory Number 43
NWS National Hurricane Center Miami FL AL062018
1100 PM AST Sun Sep 09 2018

...FLORENCE CONTINUES TO STRENGTHEN...
...EXPECTED TO BECOME A MAJOR HURRICANE BY MONDAY NIGHT...


SUMMARY OF 1100 PM AST...0300 UTC...INFORMATION
-----------------------------------------------
LOCATION...24.6N 57.7W
ABOUT 685 MI...1100 KM SE OF BERMUDA
ABOUT 560 MI...905 KM NE OF THE NORTHERN LEEWARD ISLANDS
MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS...90 MPH...150 KM/H
PRESENT MOVEMENT...W OR 280 DEGREES AT 7 MPH...11 KM/H
MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE...974 MB...28.77 INCHES


Hurricane Florence Discussion Number 43
NWS National Hurricane Center Miami FL AL062018
1100 PM AST Sun Sep 09 2018

Florence's satellite appearance has continued to improve quite
markedly since the previous advisory. An eye was evident in GOES-16
high-resolution infrared imagery and other channels between
2300-0000 UTC, but it became cloud covered immediately thereafter
due to a strong burst of deep convection in the southern and eastern
eyewall where cloud tops colder than -80C and an abundance of
lightning activity was observed. Since that time, the CDO has
expanded and become more circular, outflow has increased and become
more symmetrical, and an eye has begun to re-appear. The initial
intensity has been increased to 80 kt for this advisory based on a
subjective Dvorak intensity estimate of T4.5/77 kt from SAB and NHC
objective intensity estimates ranging from 77 kt to 87 kt.

The initial motion estimate is 280/06 kt. Once again, there is no
significant change to the previous forecast track or synoptic
reasoning. The models appear to be getting better dialed in on both
the location and strength of the developing blocking ridge in the
vicinity of Bermuda during the next 4 days as the mid-latitude flow
amplifies across the CONUS and the northwestern Atlantic. In fact,
the global models are now in very good agreement on forecasting
Florence's upper-level mass outflow being deposited to the north and
east of the hurricane, which will act to further strengthen the
blocking ridge and help to drive the hurricane northwestward toward
the southeastern U.S. coastal region. The new NHC model guidance is
even more tightly packed about the previous forecast track, with
less than a 90 n mi cross-track spread at 72 h and less than 120 n
mi spread at 96 h, just prior to expected landfall. Therefore, the
new official advisory track is essentially just an update and
extension of the previous forecast, and lies between the nearly
juxtaposed HCCA and FSSE corrected consensus track models.

Now that Florence has developed an inner-core ring of deep
convection, which has insulated the eye from intrusions of dry air,
rapid intensification appears likely to begin soon and continue for
the next 36 hours or so due to the expected very low vertical wind
shear conditions, dual outflow jet pattern that will be developing,
and very warm SSTs of 29-29.5 deg C beneath the hurricane. The most
favorable combination of the aforementioned factors will occur in
about 48 h, and that's when Florence is likely to achieve its
maximum intensity. After 72 hours, the wind shear is expected to
increase to around 10-15 kt from the south or southwest, and the
dual outflow pattern is forecast to change to only a single poleward
outflow pattern. This slight degradation in the upper-level
environment, along with slightly cooler SSTs, is expected to result
in a gradual weakening of the powerful cyclone. However, Florence is
still forecast to be near category-4 strength when the dangerous
hurricane makes landfall. The official intensity forecast is an
average of the intensity forecast from the corrected consensus
models HCCA and FSSE, with the latter explicitly forecasting a peak
intensity of 134 kt in 72 hours. It is also worth noting that the
model guidance is also significantly increasing the size of
Florence's wind field over the next few days, and the official
forecast reflects this trend.

The NOAA G-IV jet will conduct another synoptic surveillance
mission early Monday morning in support of the 1200 UTC model
cycle, and these flights will continue through Tuesday. In addition,
upper-air stations across portions of the central and eastern U.S.
are conducting special 0600 UTC and 1800 UTC radiosonde launches to
collect extra data for the numerical models. Hopefully these data
will help improve the track and intensity forecasts.

Key Messages:

1. There is an increasing risk of two life-threatening impacts from
Florence: storm surge at the coast and freshwater flooding from a
prolonged heavy rainfall event inland. While it is too soon to
determine the exact timing, location, and magnitude of these
impacts, interests at the coast and inland from South Carolina into
the mid-Atlantic region should closely monitor the progress of
Florence, ensure they have their hurricane plan in place, and follow
any advice given by local officials.

2. Large swells affecting Bermuda and portions of the U.S. East
Coast will continue this week. These swells will result in
life-threatening surf and rip currents.


FORECAST POSITIONS AND MAX WINDS

INIT 10/0300Z 24.6N 57.7W 80 KT 90 MPH
12H 10/1200Z 24.9N 59.1W 90 KT 105 MPH
24H 11/0000Z 25.6N 61.5W 105 KT 120 MPH
36H 11/1200Z 26.5N 64.4W 120 KT 140 MPH
48H 12/0000Z 27.8N 67.6W 130 KT 150 MPH
72H 13/0000Z 31.2N 73.6W 130 KT 150 MPH
96H 14/0000Z 34.0N 77.5W 120 KT 140 MPH
120H 15/0000Z 35.2N 79.0W 55 KT 65 MPH...INLAND

$$
Forecaster Stewart
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#1522 Postby ScottNAtlanta » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:50 pm

Moving west 280 degrees via 11p adv
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#1523 Postby cheezyWXguy » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:50 pm

ScottNAtlanta wrote:
cheezyWXguy wrote:
Aric Dunn wrote:Check out that large eye starting to clear out.. major hurricane by morning.. and so far still holding around 24.5n.
http://weather.cod.edu/satrad/exper/?pa ... =undefined

Agreed on it being a major by morning, but I’m curious: is it going through an erc right now? IR looks like 2 concentric eyewalls. I’m inclined to write it off as dry air entrainment, but I do remember watching Katrina go through a series of erc’s before it bombed out in the gulf as well.



I think its just in the process of reforming the eye since it was sheared. You have to have an eye before it can be replaced :wink:


Just because a clear eye is not present on IR imagery doesn’t mean no eye exists. Microwave imagery and recon have confirmed at least a partial eyewall through most of the day.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#1524 Postby eastcoastFL » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:50 pm

24.6 and still chugging west per 11pm advisory. ..
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#1525 Postby TheAustinMan » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:51 pm

There are a lot of lightning strikes happening right now in the core of Florence. Frequent strikes in tropical cyclones are often signs of significant intensity change.

196 KB. Source: http://weather.cod.edu/satrad/exper/?parms=meso-meso2-11-200-0-100-1&checked=map&colorbar=undefined
Image
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#1526 Postby supercane4867 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:51 pm

NHC explicitly forecasting a CAT4 landfall in the 11PM discussion...
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#1527 Postby HurricaneEric » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:52 pm

reds37win wrote:Having been through a couple that have gone through the Carolinas (Hugo, Fran, Floyd), I wouldn't worry too much about Winston-Salem. There could be some limbs down and some really good flooding, but I would be more worried about people living in metro areas such as Wilmington, Fayetteville, Raleigh (like me) and everyone closer to the coast than Winston-Salem.


Thanks so much for your insight. That does give me a little sigh of relief. Please stay safe yourself. This is looking like it’ll be one to add to that list unfortunately.


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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#1528 Postby TheProfessor » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:53 pm

Flo is really starting to get her act together.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#1529 Postby Hurricane Mac » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:55 pm

So this may sound like a dumb question, however, I’m going to ask it.
When talking about the “size” of a storm, what is considered official: the diameter of the TS winds or the entire cloud shield?
Earlier tonight a met on a local station said the storm was over 400 miles wide. The 11p advisory states TS force winds extend out 125 miles (so 250 if symmetric).
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#1530 Postby Kazmit » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:56 pm

Anyone have any prediction of whether or not it will get to cat 5 strength? I think it will get very close.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#1531 Postby 1900hurricane » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:56 pm

Instantaneous DT is still hanging out at 4.5 (OW eye embedded in MG surrounded by LG), but not far off from a 5.0 if the MG splotches can be patched up. Eye warming to WMG would also raise the DT.

Image
Last edited by 1900hurricane on Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#1532 Postby txwatcher91 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:57 pm

Aric Dunn wrote:So far, I have been tracking anywhere from 24.3 to 24.6 with every convective burst. unfortunately, because of said convection, we do not know the true motion yet. however it is still likely 270 with a lot of wobbles.


No need to. NHC officially puts her at 24.6N and at 5pm she was at 24.4N. They’re the best in the business at what they do and have access to a lot of additional data we don’t and it confirms the northerly component that is beginning right on schedule.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#1533 Postby hipshot » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:59 pm

1900hurricane wrote:Instantaneous DT is still hanging out at 4.5 (OW eye embedded in MG surrounded by LG), but not far off from a 5.0 if the LG splotches can be patched up. Eye warming to WMG would also raise the DT.


You want to translate that for us non-weather experts?
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#1534 Postby 1900hurricane » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:00 pm

hipshot wrote:
1900hurricane wrote:Instantaneous DT is still hanging out at 4.5 (OW eye embedded in MG surrounded by LG), but not far off from a 5.0 if the LG splotches can be patched up. Eye warming to WMG would also raise the DT.


You want to translate that for us non-weather experts?

NHC's 75 kt looks good at the moment, but it could be up to 90-100 kt by the morning possibly.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#1535 Postby Highteeld » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:02 pm

hipshot wrote:
1900hurricane wrote:Instantaneous DT is still hanging out at 4.5 (OW eye embedded in MG surrounded by LG), but not far off from a 5.0 if the LG splotches can be patched up. Eye warming to WMG would also raise the DT.



You want to translate that for us non-weather experts?

Image
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvorak_technique
http://tropic.ssec.wisc.edu/real-time/adt/odt06L.html
Last edited by Highteeld on Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Very useful information on the Dvorak Technique --

https://severe.worldweather.wmo.int/TCF ... kBeven.pdf

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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#1536 Postby ScottNAtlanta » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:02 pm

cheezyWXguy wrote:
ScottNAtlanta wrote:
cheezyWXguy wrote:Agreed on it being a major by morning, but I’m curious: is it going through an erc right now? IR looks like 2 concentric eyewalls. I’m inclined to write it off as dry air entrainment, but I do remember watching Katrina go through a series of erc’s before it bombed out in the gulf as well.



I think its just in the process of reforming the eye since it was sheared. You have to have an eye before it can be replaced :wink:


Just because a clear eye is not present on IR imagery doesn’t mean no eye exists. Microwave imagery and recon have confirmed at least a partial eyewall through most of the day.


Partial, but that is not concentric, and no there wasnt an eyewall replacement cycle under way because it was a partial eyewall...so there, you answered your own question
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#1537 Postby supercane4867 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:04 pm

Here is a comparison of OHC map during the forecast period of Florence and last year's Irma. Irma intensified into a 155kt hurricane along the 75 isobar

Image

Image
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#1538 Postby 1900hurricane » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:05 pm

Heh, sure enough WMG begins poking though the very next frame.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#1539 Postby psyclone » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:06 pm

Hurricane Mac wrote:So this may sound like a dumb question, however, I’m going to ask it.
When talking about the “size” of a storm, what is considered official: the diameter of the TS winds or the entire cloud shield?
Earlier tonight a met on a local station said the storm was over 400 miles wide. The 11p advisory states TS force winds extend out 125 miles (so 250 if symmetric).

Always look at the gale radii. I've seen tv people count distant outflow as part of the storm and laughably overestimate its size.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#1540 Postby SunnyThoughts » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:08 pm

I'm afraid when we wake up tomorrow morning, we are going to be looking at a beast unfortunately. I hope all you guys in the Carolinas are prepared, Its not often that the NHC actually forecasts a hurricane to become 150 mph while it is still sitting at cat1.
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