ATL: FLORENCE - Post-Tropical - Discussion

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galaxy401
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#3501 Postby galaxy401 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:29 pm

Chris_in_Tampa wrote:I like to look at the Surge Destructive Potential (SDP) Rating of a storm. The estimated rating is "based on some very coarse wind field assumptions". The technology that uses a gridded analysis, which gives a better result, was sold to a private company. (https://twitter.com/hwind/status/1039868877176545281)

The coarse estimate is currently 4.1 out of 6 as of 8pm EDT Wednesday for Florence.

Calculator:
http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/ike/Calculator_AllQuad.php

"The SDP box is the Surge Destructive Potential Rating based on a scale of zero to 6. SDP is interpreted similar to the Saffir SImpson scale in that the most destructive storms are rated above 5 and the least destructive storms < 1."

How does that compare to other hurricanes that struck the Carolinas like Isabel or Hugo?
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Got my eyes on moving right into Hurricane Alley: Florida.

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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#3502 Postby eastcoastFL » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:30 pm

Buoy 220 nm south of cape hatteras reporting 27ft waves..
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#3503 Postby MrStormX » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:33 pm

The category of storm means next to nothing in the grand scheme of things. The Saffir-Simpson scale is an arbitrary measure that many professional meteorologists, and emergency management officials believe needs to be replaced or altered to better account for the total effects of a storm, not just the wind.

Florence is weakening, but its most serious hazard (inland flooding) remains as significant a threat today, as it was yesterday. As for storm surge, it needs to be kept in mind that Florence has been traveling unencumbered across the Atlantic since the time it emerged from Africa, even if it weakens some, the storm surge threat will likely remain high.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#3504 Postby emeraldislenc » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:33 pm

I used to send a donation to the Miami Herald for a hurricane map. They were the best ones. Loved them.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#3505 Postby NDG » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:37 pm

No hint yet from Florence slowing down, it still moving a good 16-17 mph.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#3506 Postby Hammy » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:39 pm

MrStormX wrote:The category of storm means next to nothing in the grand scheme of things. The Saffir-Simpson scale is an arbitrary measure that many professional meteorologists, and emergency management officials believe needs to be replaced or altered to better account for the total effects of a storm, not just the wind.

Florence is weakening, but its most serious hazard (inland flooding) remains as significant a threat today, as it was yesterday. As for storm surge, it needs to be kept in mind that Florence has been traveling unencumbered across the Atlantic since the time it emerged from Africa, even if it weakens some, the storm surge threat will likely remain high.



I think the SS scale still works for wind (since not every system affects land) and for seasonal statistical purposes, but agree there needs to be a separate classification system for impacts. Too many people with this (or any system really) look at wind and if it weakens or if the eye veers away a bit, tend to let their guard down because the wind threat isn't as high and tend to think the other effects are also lessened.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#3507 Postby Chris_in_Tampa » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:40 pm

galaxy401 wrote:
Chris_in_Tampa wrote:I like to look at the Surge Destructive Potential (SDP) Rating of a storm. The estimated rating is "based on some very coarse wind field assumptions". The technology that uses a gridded analysis, which gives a better result, was sold to a private company. (https://twitter.com/hwind/status/1039868877176545281)

The coarse estimate is currently 4.1 out of 6 as of 8pm EDT Wednesday for Florence.

Calculator:
http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/ike/Calculator_AllQuad.php

"The SDP box is the Surge Destructive Potential Rating based on a scale of zero to 6. SDP is interpreted similar to the Saffir SImpson scale in that the most destructive storms are rated above 5 and the least destructive storms < 1."

How does that compare to other hurricanes that struck the Carolinas like Isabel or Hugo?


Isabel was 5.2 just before landfall using the coarse scale. I don't know the wind field details on Hugo. Let me see if I can find them.

Edit: I couldn't find wind field details on Hugo. You need the radii of the wind field to do that calculation.
Last edited by Chris_in_Tampa on Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#3508 Postby Zarniwoop » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:43 pm

You can see towers firing as she tries to fire up, but she's being crushed by that front to the south.

My intermediate eyes can't see how she's a cat 3 now let alone in the morning.

I know its academic at this point for the rain threat and a large portion of the surge threat. But, the WIND looks like its falling apart and has for quite some time now.

Even the pros here seem to think she's going to weaken most if not all the way in.

I REALIZE its still a TERRIBLE storm and will certainly cause people to lose their lives in historic flooding and trees in basically wet mud will be toppling like bowling pins.

I'm just asking for someone knowledgeable to tell me I'm wrong and why.

Please don't listen to anything I say. Rely on NHC producs for decision making.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#3509 Postby Ken711 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:44 pm

NDG wrote:No hint yet from Florence slowing down, it still moving a good 16-17 mph.


Outer bands should be coming into view of local radars soon.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#3510 Postby ozonepete » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:44 pm

Something else to watch. While the current ERC makes it more difficult to track, it sure looks like it is turning more westward. If so, it may loop or stall way before it reaches the coast - a whole 'nother twist to consider. Look at the current steering winds from CIMSS for a TC of Florence's strength. It may be starting its southward turn way before we thought it would. Just another thought.

Image
Last edited by ozonepete on Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#3511 Postby tolakram » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:44 pm

Recon not quite at the center yet.

Image
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#3512 Postby stormhunter7 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:47 pm

10pm package out. Recon already outbound.


AT 13/0000Z CENTER WAS LOCATED NEAR 31.5N 73.2W
ESTIMATED MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE 957 MB
MAX SUSTAINED WINDS 95 KT WITH GUSTS TO 115 KT.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#3513 Postby PandaCitrus » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:49 pm

ozonepete wrote:Something else to watch. While the current ERC makes it more difficult to track, it sure looks like it is turning more westward. If so, it may loop or stall way before it reaches the coast - a whole 'nother twist to consider. Look at the current steering winds from CIMSS for a TC of Florence's strength. It may be starting its southward turn way before we thought it would. Just another thought.

[url]http://i.imgur.com/4nZNNit.gif [/url]


Are you saying it could ride the gulf stream down to Daytona and Northern FL like this Euro Ensemble member?

Image
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#3514 Postby Ken711 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:50 pm

stormhunter7 wrote:10pm package out. Recon already outbound.


AT 13/0000Z CENTER WAS LOCATED NEAR 31.5N 73.2W
ESTIMATED MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE 957 MB
MAX SUSTAINED WINDS 95 KT WITH GUSTS TO 115 KT.


11PM NHC Update

11:00 PM EDT Wed Sep 12
Location: 32.0°N 73.7°W
Moving: NW at 17 mph
Min pressure: 957 mb
Max sustained: 110 mph
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#3515 Postby floridasun78 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:52 pm

still strong but not bad as cat 4 but wind will bad 110 not kind wind i will not want be kind wind still flood issue
Last edited by floridasun78 on Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#3516 Postby ConvergenceZone » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:52 pm

now that it's a cat 2 and the forcasted winds have also dropped to a Cat 2, doesn't look like they expect it to strengthen now. Let's get it down to a Cat 1 by tomorrow morning when we wake up! Wow, what a change over the last 24 hours!!!
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Advisories

#3517 Postby cycloneye » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:52 pm

BULLETIN
Hurricane Florence Advisory Number 55
NWS National Hurricane Center Miami FL AL062018
1100 PM EDT Wed Sep 12 2018

...FLORENCE WEAKENS A LITTLE MORE...
...LIFE-THREATENING STORM SURGE AND RAINFALL STILL EXPECTED...


SUMMARY OF 1100 PM EDT...0300 UTC...INFORMATION
-----------------------------------------------
LOCATION...32.0N 73.7W
ABOUT 280 MI...455 KM ESE OF WILMINGTON NORTH CAROLINA
ABOUT 325 MI...520 KM ESE OF MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA
MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS...110 MPH...175 KM/H
PRESENT MOVEMENT...NW OR 315 DEGREES AT 17 MPH...28 KM/H
MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE...957 MB...28.26 INCHES



Hurricane Florence Discussion Number 55
NWS National Hurricane Center Miami FL AL062018
1100 PM EDT Wed Sep 12 2018

Satellite data and reports from Hurricane Hunter aircraft indicate
significant changes in the structure of Florence and the
environment near the storm since the last advisory. Microwave
satellite imagery shows that the convection on the southern side of
the storm has been disrupted, and reports from an Air Force Reserve
Hurricane Hunter aircraft indicate the eyewall now wraps less than
50 percent of the way around the center. The aircraft also reports
that the hurricane again has concentric wind maxima, the inner at a
radius 20-30 n mi and the outer at 50-60 n mi. The convection seems
to have been affected by 20-25 kt of southerly vertical wind shear,
most of which appears to be due to strong winds between 200-250 mb
seen in dropsonde data from the NOAA G-IV jet. The central
pressure has risen to 957 mb, and the maximum 700-mb flight-level
winds reported so far are 103 kt. Based on the latter data, the
initial intensity reduced to a probably generous 95 kt.

The initial motion is 315/15. During the next 12-36 hours, the
hurricane is expected to turn toward the west-northwest and west
with a decrease in forward speed as it moves into an area of
weakening steering currents near and over the southeastern United
States. The new forecast track now brings the center onshore in
southern North Carolina near the 36 h point. After landfall, the
cyclone should move slowly westward to west-southwestward through
the 72 h point, then it should turn northwestward to northward by
the end of the forecast period as it moves through the Appalachian
Mountains. The new forecast track lies between the HCCA corrected
consensus model and the other consensus aids, and it is nudged just
a little to the north of the previous track.

The dynamical models forecast the current shear to subside after
6-12 h as Florence moves farther from an upper-level low currently
near northeastern Florida. This, combined with sea surface
temperatures near 29C, would allow a last chance for strengthening
before landfall. However, the storm structure, particularly the
large outer wind maxima, would likely be slow to respond to the
more favorable environment. The pre-landfall part of the intensity
forecast thus calls for little change in strength, but given the
uncertainties the confidence in this is low. After landfall,
Florence should gradually weaken during the 36-48 h period while
the center is near the coast, then weaken more quickly when the
center moves farther inland.

While Florence has weakened below major hurricane intensity, the
wind field of the hurricane continues to grow in size. This
evolution will produce storm surges similar to that of a more
intense, but smaller, hurricane, and thus the storm surge values
seen in the previous advisory are still valid. The threat of
rainfall has also not diminished, and these impacts will cover a
large area regardless of exactly where the center of Florence moves.


Key Messages:

1. A life-threatening storm surge is now highly likely along
portions of the coastlines of South Carolina and North Carolina, and
a Storm Surge Warning is in effect for a portion of this area. All
interests in these areas should complete preparations and follow any
advice given by local officials.

2. Life-threatening, catastrophic flash flooding and prolonged
significant river flooding are likely over portions of the Carolinas
and the southern and central Appalachians late this week into early
next week, as Florence is expected to slow down as it approaches the
coast and moves inland.

3. Damaging hurricane-force winds are likely along portions of the
coasts of South Carolina and North Carolina, and a Hurricane Warning
is in effect. Strong winds could also spread inland into portions
of the Carolinas.

4. Large swells affecting Bermuda, portions of the U.S. East
Coast, and the northwestern and central Bahamas will continue this
week, resulting in life-threatening surf and rip currents.


FORECAST POSITIONS AND MAX WINDS

INIT 13/0300Z 32.0N 73.7W 95 KT 110 MPH
12H 13/1200Z 33.1N 75.3W 95 KT 110 MPH
24H 14/0000Z 33.9N 76.7W 95 KT 110 MPH
36H 14/1200Z 34.2N 78.0W 80 KT 90 MPH...INLAND
48H 15/0000Z 34.1N 78.7W 60 KT 70 MPH...INLAND
72H 16/0000Z 33.5N 80.5W 40 KT 45 MPH...INLAND
96H 17/0000Z 34.0N 83.0W 25 KT 30 MPH...INLAND
120H 18/0000Z 37.5N 83.5W 20 KT 25 MPH...POST-TROP/REMNT LOW

$$
Forecaster Beven
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#3518 Postby tolakram » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:54 pm

The aircraft also reports
that the hurricane again has concentric wind maxima, the inner at a
radius 20-30 n mi and the outer at 50-60 n mi. The convection seems
to have been affected by 20-25 kt of southerly vertical wind shear,
most of which appears to be due to strong winds between 200-250 mb
seen in dropsonde data from the NOAA G-IV jet. The central
pressure has risen to 957 mb, and the maximum 700-mb flight-level
winds reported so far are 103 kt. Based on the latter data, the
initial intensity reduced to a probably generous 95 kt.


Once again, shear forecasts are fairly useless beyond ... oh ... 90 minutes? :)
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#3519 Postby Hammy » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:54 pm

ozonepete wrote:Something else to watch. While the current ERC makes it more difficult to track, it sure looks like it is turning more westward. If so, it may loop or stall way before it reaches the coast - a whole 'nother twist to consider. Look at the current steering winds from CIMSS for a TC of Florence's strength. It may be starting its southward turn way before we thought it would. Just another thought.

[url=https://imgur.com/4nZNNit][url]http://i.imgur.com/4nZNNit.gif[


Any chance that could cause it to get ejected out to sea without coming ashore, or would it simply delay landfall and push it further south?
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Re: ATL: FLORENCE - Hurricane - Discussion

#3520 Postby ozonepete » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:54 pm

PandaCitrus wrote:
ozonepete wrote:Something else to watch. While the current ERC makes it more difficult to track, it sure looks like it is turning more westward. If so, it may loop or stall way before it reaches the coast - a whole 'nother twist to consider. Look at the current steering winds from CIMSS for a TC of Florence's strength. It may be starting its southward turn way before we thought it would. Just another thought.

[url]http://i.imgur.com/4nZNNit.gif [/url]


Are you saying it could ride the gulf stream down to Daytona and Northern FL like this Euro Ensemble member?



I wouldn't forecast past a couple of days (48 hours) which would bring it drifting southward or looping offshore of SC or GA. Florida is way too far off now considering how slowly it will be moving. And one ensemble member is exactly that: one ensemble member out of a whole lot.
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