Broad area of disturbed weather in the Western Caribbean Sea (Is INVEST 91L)

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Re: Broad area of disturbed weather in the southwestern Caribbean Sea

#161 Postby Aric Dunn » Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:26 pm

LarryWx wrote:Are there any models beside Euro, GFS, UK that we can trust won't overstrengthen in high shear?


The models that are intensifying it dont have high shear. the upper environment just plays out differently.

Like I have mentioned already pay attention to the current upper low heading to the Yucutan.

there is variance between how that current upper low plays out and a second upper low that develops and retrogrades ( AJC3 also mentioned this previously) west later in the week. the second one cant come in if the first one does not move or die.

so right now looking at the models past 48 hours is pointless to make any rational decision.

if this current upper low shifts farther west and wnw that will make a conducive environment to see something develop faster ( in the next couple days) if it parks itself about where it is like the GFS and euro say then continued shear as it meanders north and slow development possible.

so we just have to wait and look for some short term trends that might lead to some long term better solutions. i.e if we see something consolidate quicker and not broad.
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Re: Broad area of disturbed weather in the southwestern Caribbean Sea

#162 Postby LarryWx » Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:38 pm

SSTs: https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/tafb/sst_loop/14_atl.png

The worry is that IF this gets into fav shear, these SSTs of 29-30C off SE/Gulf, which are as warm as the W Car and are normal for Aug, will provide extra fuel. Look at the Big Bend: over 30C, hottest in entire basin! This is not normal.
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Re: Broad area of disturbed weather in the southwestern Caribbean Sea

#163 Postby SFLcane » Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:47 pm

You can already see convection increasing down there...

Image
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Re: Broad area of disturbed weather in the southwestern Caribbean Sea

#164 Postby TheStormExpert » Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:53 pm

LarryWx wrote:
toad strangler wrote:
SFLcane wrote:12z EPS has about 5 hurricanes surrounding FL so still rather active.


All at once?

:lol:


Besides 2 E coast scrapers, I counted 5 H hits on FL, all Big Bend to Sarasota. 3 on 10/11 and 2 on 10/16.

Hopefully those two are wrong as that’s my birthday. :lol:
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Re: Broad area of disturbed weather in the southwestern Caribbean Sea

#165 Postby AtlanticWind » Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:55 pm

LarryWx wrote:Are there any models beside Euro, GFS, UK that we can trust won't overstrengthen in high shear?

You can't trust any models that much over 72 hours when it comes to genesis
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Re: Broad area of disturbed weather in the southwestern Caribbean Sea

#166 Postby Aric Dunn » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:01 pm

Currently that upper low the last 8 hours has been moving at a pretty good clip to the w.
in response to that you can the outflow from the convection go from blowing off to the NE now expanding N and NW as an anticyclone builds across the SW carrib.

Image
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Re: Broad area of disturbed weather in the southwestern Caribbean Sea

#167 Postby Abdullah » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:02 pm

LarryWx wrote:SSTs: https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/tafb/sst_loop/14_atl.png

The worry is that IF this gets into fav shear, these SSTs of 29-30C off SE/Gulf, which are as warm as the W Car and are normal for Aug, will provide extra fuel. Look at the Big Bend: over 30C, hottest in entire basin! This is not normal.


Does anyone know the SST(Sea Surface Temperature)s Wilma intensified on?
Also, why the big difference between the FV3 and GFS? The FV3 is obviously not the new model, which, as someone earlier stated, is projected to come out 2019.

Regular GFS :darrow: Nothing at all. The whole model.
Image
The FV3 :darrow: Brings 972 mB Hurricane into SouthEast Florida
Image
Last edited by Abdullah on Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Broad area of disturbed weather in the southwestern Caribbean Sea

#168 Postby gatorcane » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:04 pm

18Z NAM much more bullish:

Image
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Re: Broad area of disturbed weather in the southwestern Caribbean Sea

#169 Postby Aric Dunn » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:08 pm

gatorcane wrote:18Z NAM much more bullish:

https://i.postimg.cc/43wQYczk/nam_mslp_pcpn_watl_28.png


yes. compare the sterngth and position of the current up low from 12z to 18z you will see why.
:)
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Re: Broad area of disturbed weather in the southwestern Caribbean Sea

#170 Postby Aric Dunn » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:17 pm

Abdullah wrote:
LarryWx wrote:SSTs: https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/tafb/sst_loop/14_atl.png

The worry is that IF this gets into fav shear, these SSTs of 29-30C off SE/Gulf, which are as warm as the W Car and are normal for Aug, will provide extra fuel. Look at the Big Bend: over 30C, hottest in entire basin! This is not normal.


Does anyone know the SST(Sea Surface Temperature)s Wilma intensified on?
Also, why the big difference between the FV3 and GFS? The FV3 is obviously not the new model, which, as someone earlier stated, is projected to come out.

Regular GFS :darrow: Nothing at all. The whole model.
http://i66.tinypic.com/2is9kq8.png
The FV3 :darrow: Brings 972 mB Hurricane into SouthEast Florida
http://i64.tinypic.com/15z2lft.png


what do you mean the FV3 gfs is not new ?

it very much is. it is the GFS built around the Finite Volume core (in this case version 3 I believe it has been in testing for years in various incarnations?). the resolution among many other things are new and improved.

its actually fun way to resolve some issues with various differential equation solutions using some geometry based algebraic methods. nothing new there really but the computations are slightly faster I suppose and you can get better resolution in smaller spatial grids.
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Re: Broad area of disturbed weather in the southwestern Caribbean Sea

#171 Postby Abdullah » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:30 pm

Aric Dunn wrote:
Abdullah wrote:
LarryWx wrote:SSTs: https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/tafb/sst_loop/14_atl.png

The worry is that IF this gets into fav shear, these SSTs of 29-30C off SE/Gulf, which are as warm as the W Car and are normal for Aug, will provide extra fuel. Look at the Big Bend: over 30C, hottest in entire basin! This is not normal.


Does anyone know the SST(Sea Surface Temperature)s Wilma intensified on?
Also, why the big difference between the FV3 and GFS? The FV3 is obviously not the new model, which, as someone earlier stated, is projected to come out 2019.

Regular GFS :darrow: Nothing at all. The whole model.
http://i66.tinypic.com/2is9kq8.png
The FV3 :darrow: Brings 972 mB Hurricane into SouthEast Florida
http://i64.tinypic.com/15z2lft.png


what do you mean the FV3 gfs is not new ?

it very much is. it is the GFS built around the Finite Volume core (in this case version 3 I believe it has been in testing for years in various incarnations?). the resolution among many other things are new and improved.

its actually fun way to resolve some issues with various differential equation solutions using some geometry based algebraic methods. nothing new there really but the computations are slightly faster I suppose and you can get better resolution in smaller spatial grids.


No, I'm talking about the newer one. the 2019 one. As said earlier in the thread, someone was saying that they missed a bit, and what was the FV3, is it the new one. The next person said it'll come out 2019.

I've scoured this thread 3 times for that and I still can't find it.

EDIT: found it

ronjon wrote:
DESTRUCTION5 wrote:
SFLcane wrote:Very plausible track if you asked me with that massive ridge overhead.

https://www.imageupload.co.uk/images/2018/10/01/yep.gif


I must have missed the memo sometime...is this model considered the new GFS?


Will be starting in 2019.
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Re: RE: Re: Broad area of disturbed weather in the southwestern Caribbean Sea

#172 Postby jlauderdal » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:55 pm

South floridians know the drill with hits this far out
Abdullah wrote:
LarryWx wrote:SSTs: https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/tafb/sst_loop/14_atl.png

The worry is that IF this gets into fav shear, these SSTs of 29-30C off SE/Gulf, which are as warm as the W Car and are normal for Aug, will provide extra fuel. Look at the Big Bend: over 30C, hottest in entire basin! This is not normal.


Does anyone know the SST(Sea Surface Temperature)s Wilma intensified on?
Also, why the big difference between the FV3 and GFS? The FV3 is obviously not the new model, which, as someone earlier stated, is projected to come out 2019.

Regular GFS :darrow: Nothing at all. The whole model.
Image
The FV3 :darrow: Brings 972 mB Hurricane into SouthEast Florida
Image
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Re: Broad area of disturbed weather in the southwestern Caribbean Sea

#173 Postby Aric Dunn » Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:03 pm

well would you look at that.. the 18z GFS takes that current upper low and moves it wnw into southern gulf. in response, there is a much more coherent vort moving in the NW carrib. looking much more reasonable so far.

does not do too much on intensity mostly because it looks to be partially over land.
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Re: Broad area of disturbed weather in the southwestern Caribbean Sea

#174 Postby Dean4Storms » Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:05 pm

Starting to see more and more model agreement on some form of a Low down there and some of the highest TC Heat Potential resides currently over the Western Carib. Sea in the whole Atlantic Basin. We've seen heavily sheared systems spin up down there when the TCHP is this high so not ruling out a hurricane that is for sure. The fact that the 12z ECM OP does little also does not rule out development, it's been known to be late to the party down there in the past.
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Re: Broad area of disturbed weather in the southwestern Caribbean Sea

#175 Postby Nimbus » Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:05 pm

Butterfly effect is better modeled with newer technology or is there a limit?
I thought there were hard limits to chaos theory that would render newer models just as inaccurate.
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Re: Broad area of disturbed weather in the southwestern Caribbean Sea

#176 Postby AutoPenalti » Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:22 pm

If model runs were precise on strength and location, this thread wouldn’t be 8 pages long. :cheesy:
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Re: Broad area of disturbed weather in the southwestern Caribbean Sea

#177 Postby Aric Dunn » Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:26 pm

well at least the first 120 hours were reasonable.. now we are back to a string of pearls for the 18z gfs.

but a notable change either way.
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Re: Broad area of disturbed weather in the southwestern Caribbean Sea

#178 Postby ronjon » Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:28 pm

Abdullah wrote:
Aric Dunn wrote:
Abdullah wrote:
Does anyone know the SST(Sea Surface Temperature)s Wilma intensified on?
Also, why the big difference between the FV3 and GFS? The FV3 is obviously not the new model, which, as someone earlier stated, is projected to come out 2019.

Regular GFS :darrow: Nothing at all. The whole model.
http://i66.tinypic.com/2is9kq8.png
The FV3 :darrow: Brings 972 mB Hurricane into SouthEast Florida
http://i64.tinypic.com/15z2lft.png


what do you mean the FV3 gfs is not new ?

it very much is. it is the GFS built around the Finite Volume core (in this case version 3 I believe it has been in testing for years in various incarnations?). the resolution among many other things are new and improved.

its actually fun way to resolve some issues with various differential equation solutions using some geometry based algebraic methods. nothing new there really but the computations are slightly faster I suppose and you can get better resolution in smaller spatial grids.


No, I'm talking about the newer one. the 2019 one. As said earlier in the thread, someone was saying that they missed a bit, and what was the FV3, is it the new one. The next person said it'll come out 2019.

I've scoured this thread 3 times for that and I still can't find it.

EDIT: found it

ronjon wrote:
DESTRUCTION5 wrote:
I must have missed the memo sometime...is this model considered the new GFS?


Will be starting in 2019.


The FV3 is scheduled to completely replace the existing GFS in 2019. It's commonly called the parallel GFS now.
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Re: Broad area of disturbed weather in the southwestern Caribbean Sea

#179 Postby Aric Dunn » Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:32 pm

lol the GFS looks like a petri dish of cells undergoing mitosis .....:P
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Re: Broad area of disturbed weather in the southwestern Caribbean Sea

#180 Postby gatorcane » Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:41 pm

FV3 GFS going with a 1005mb low in just 60 hours:

Image
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