Terri Schiavo Bill passes

[GalvestonDuck]

I'm actually with you on some counts, Lyle. I believe this stresses the importance of having specific advanced directives. It would have saved a lot of trouble if Terri had made her wishes known to all her family.

I posted about my mom in a previous thread. I know how hard it is.

[Toni - 574]

OtherHD, it sounds like you went through a very difficult time with your mom. It's real hard when you have to watch and endure something like that especially when it comes to a parent or child.
Now as far as Terri is concerned you are right, I don't know anyone that would chose to be that way. I wish that I could take you on a tour of the school where I work. I care for students that are physically and mentally delayed quite a lot of them simular to Terri. A lot of them is feed in the same way that Terri has to be. Healthy people can live normal lives being feed that way also. We have students at my school as old as 22yrs. Sometimes I wish that if Terri was younger she could attend.She would get so much therapy and socialization than what she is getting now. Her husband has denied her any type of therapy for years now. If you just lay dormant you will indeed lose what potiental you do have. Even though the quality of life is not what we think quality should be they long to have someone to read to them, sing to them, give them a soft touch, laugh, put them in a wheel chair and dance with them, and the list goes on and on. I will pray that one day you too will find GOD and that you will find a peace that only he can give. HINT: GOD ALWAYS WORKS WITH BROKEN PIECES!!

[ColdFront77]

Perhaps I should add that those of you who went through DNR orders, I have been there too, quite recently in fact. My mother died on October 9th. A few months prior to that, she and my dad signed a DNR order without consulting me. I was pretty mad about it, because of course, I didn't want her to die. I wanted her to live as long as possible. She always reminded me in the months prior that it was her dream to see me graduate. Signing the DNR wouldn't allow her to do that. The night she died, her condition was horrible. The way she looked is something I never want to see again in my life. I feel that resuscitating her would prolong that. So I do understand the family's motives for keeping her alive. But I will say this again. I would never want to live the way Terry is living. And I can't imagine anyone else would either.

Lyle, I am very sorry to hear about the loss of your mother.

[rainstorm]

sorry hd

[mf_dolphin]

OtherHD, I too wnet through a DNR situation with my mom. See fought Lupus for nearly 15 years before finally giving losing her battle. She had an absolute fear of being in the position Terri is in right now. Fortunately, she had a living will and we had family discussions so that everyone knew Mom's views on the subject. It was one of the most difficult times in my life when the time came to exercise those wishes but it was the right thing to do. Just like Terri, my Mom was brain dead. The person that I loved was no longer in the body I saw laying on the bed. People comments here about Terri's husband are both unwarranted and show a lack of understanding on the position he's in. I believe that he's fighting for his wife's wishes and I support him fully! This case has been decided by every court that has heard the case and the true medical evidence. Terri has no brain activity other than reflex activity. Having also lost a child, I also know how hard a parent wants to hold on to a child's life. When a human being can no longer think, love, imagine and dream then life ends. The body can be sustained indefinitely but that's not living IMO.

[Rainband]

OMG LYLE..I am so sorry to hear about your mother..

[ColdFront77]

Is the truth Terri has brain activity or no brain activity... the movements she is showing, i.e. following a balloon is an indication of being brain dead?

[GalvestonDuck]

I'd like to know if they used the cold calorics test on her. It's used in the ER on patients with severe head trauma who present with all other outward signs of being brain dead. A large syringe is filled with ice-cold water and the water is flushed at full force into the ear. If a brain doesn't react to that, brain death is declared.

Cat scan? EEG? Has anyone seen any of this?

[stormy]

others and df i agree with both of u. this is no way to live. ppl do not plan for the future. we have a living will and i do not want to live on life support, but that is my choice. i feel for the other side too, let God take her when he wills. i do believe that the husband just wants to get rid of her, so he doesnt have the burden of her. i know this man whose wife is in a home, she doesnt even know him now. he won t date, but sometimes does goes out, but he says he married her for better or worst. i have alot of mixed emotions on this subject. this is a sad. :?

[blizzard]

I'd like to know if they used the cold calorics test on her. It's used in the ER on patients with severe head trauma who present with all other outward signs of being brain dead. A large syringe is filled with ice-cold water and the water is flushed at full force into the ear. If a brain doesn't react to that, brain death is declared.

Cat scan? EEG? Has anyone seen any of this?

I am sure that the doctors have performed every conceivable method to indicate brain activity. The courts probably made sure of that. (I would hope anyway)

others and df i agree with both of u. this is no way to live. ppl do not plan for the future. we have a living will and i do not want to live on life support, but that is my choice. i feel for the other side too, let God take her when he wills. i do believe that the husband just wants to get rid of her, so he doesnt have the burden of her. i know this man whose wife is in a home, she doesnt even know him now. he won t date, but sometimes does goes out, but he says he married her for better or worst. i have alot of mixed emotions on this subject. this is a sad.

IMHO it has been God's will to take her. Feeding tubes are a form of artificial life support.

[rainstorm]

OtherHD, I too wnet through a DNR situation with my mom. See fought Lupus for nearly 15 years before finally giving losing her battle. She had an absolute fear of being in the position Terri is in right now. Fortunately, she had a living will and we had family discussions so that everyone knew Mom's views on the subject. It was one of the most difficult times in my life when the time came to exercise those wishes but it was the right thing to do. Just like Terri, my Mom was brain dead. The person that I loved was no longer in the body I saw laying on the bed. People comments here about Terri's husband are both unwarranted and show a lack of understanding on the position he's in. I believe that he's fighting for his wife's wishes and I support him fully! This case has been decided by every court that has heard the case and the true medical evidence. Terri has no brain activity other than reflex activity. Having also lost a child, I also know how hard a parent wants to hold on to a child's life. When a human being can no longer think, love, imagine and dream then life ends. The body can be sustained indefinitely but that's not living IMO.

are her parents keeping her in this conditin(and it will only get worse) for decades because they cant let go? i think the husband has better motives than the parents do.

[JCT777]

OtherHD - sorry to hear about the loss of your mother.

As far as this case is concerned, if it is absolutely determined that she is brain dead and will never get any better - then the right thing to do is to let nature take its course.

[Amanzi]

I had a look at this website and found some interesting reading.

Terri was 26 years old when she suffered brain damage from a sudden collapse. Terri receives her food and water by means of a feeding tube. Terri’s other bodily functions are physically stable. Terri smiles, laughs and cries. Terri recognizes voices and responds. At times, she vocalizes sounds, trying in her best way to speak. Terri is not a brain dead vegetable as characterized by her husband and legal guardian, Michael Schiavo nor a houseplant as implied by his attorney. Terri is not on a respirator or any artificial life support. She is a living human being and needs to be granted an opportunity to recover. Terri has not had any progressive rehabilitation or arousal therapy in more than ten years.
http://www.terrisfight.org/Framesets/SituationFrame.htm

[rainstorm]

you are wrong. in the paper today it was made clear that her movements are totally reflexive, as the experts have testified to many times. as far as that video, how many hours did they have to film her before they coaught a few seconds of movement. a better portrayal would be to film her for days at a time, and watch her then. i feel the parents are only thinking of themselves. it is hard to let go, but they have to.

[ColdFront77]

We don't have proof that Terri can't get through the state she is in.

She has been in this state without anyone doing what needs to be done to potentially get her better, no matter how little an improvement.

[Lindaloo]

One of my best friends 2 year old daughter came down with encephylitus in 1995. She kept having brain seizures which put her in a brain damaged coma. She was in the same state as Terri. Having to be fed through a tube and was on a breathing machine. I felt so bad for this little girl after watching her go from a bouncy toddler to a bed ridden toddler. She did not know anyone anymore. She would respond to the balloons too and she would respond to her Mom. All she did was grunt and make gurgling noises. She could not do anything on her own. She survived that way for two years until she developed pneumonia and passed away. Her Mother confided in me later on that she was so glad Stephanie was out of her misery, but she could not bring herself to let her go. Sherry would blame herself for letting her baby suffer. It is a natural emotion to not want to let your child go and it certainly clouds our decisions.

But disconnecting the feeding tubes for this lady to die is unnatural. They are more or less letting her starve to death. This is not God's way of doing things nor should it be anyone's way. Let nature run it's course and when God is ready, he will call Terri home.

[blizzard]

But disconnecting the feeding tubes for this lady to die is unnatural. They are more or less letting her starve to death. This is not God's way of doing things nor should it be anyone's way. Let nature run it's course and when God is ready, he will call Terri home.

Unnatural? Were we all born with plastic feeding tubes attached to us? I don't see how this is a natural thing and not considered a form of life support. I agree that the family is more or less being selfish on this issue and just cannot make that decision that she is not going to get any better. If she were going to get better, she would have sometime in the last ten years. Let her go to a better world.

Put youself in the following situation. Tie your hands and feet to a chair, have someone put you in a closet and close the door. This is what it is like for her in my mind. She is in a closet that she cannot open. THis has gone on for ten+ years. How awful a life that has got to be. I would want to move onto a better place. If you all are Christians as you claim, you know that the other side if far better for Terri. The only benefit in keeping her around is her family doesn't have to feel the guilt of letting her go.

[rainstorm]

But disconnecting the feeding tubes for this lady to die is unnatural. They are more or less letting her starve to death. This is not God's way of doing things nor should it be anyone's way. Let nature run it's course and when God is ready, he will call Terri home.

Unnatural? Were we all born with plastic feeding tubes attached to us? I don't see how this is a natural thing and not considered a form of life support. I agree that the family is more or less being selfish on this issue and just cannot make that decision that she is not going to get any better. If she were going to get better, she would have sometime in the last ten years. Let her go to a better world.

Put youself in the following situation. Tie your hands and feet to a chair, have someone put you in a closet and close the door. This is what it is like for her in my mind. She is in a closet that she cannot open. THis has gone on for ten+ years. How awful a life that has got to be. I would want to move onto a better place. If you all are Christians as you claim, you know that the other side if far better for Terri. The only benefit in keeping her around is her family doesn't have to feel the guilt of letting her go.

i do think it would be cruel to starve her to death. a member of her family needs to think hard about helping her die, just my opinion. again, all objective opinion is she has no cognitive thought whatsoever.

[Lindaloo]

You missed my point blizzard. I was merely trying to say that it is not God's way to allow someone to starve to death. The feeding tubes were still attached to Steph and it was God's will to bring her home. She did not starve to death.

I know I could NEVER EVER allow someone to starve to death even though all hope is lost. I believe that is the emotional thinking of her family as well. Her husband is not seeing that.

[GalvestonDuck]

I'm just wondering -- unless things have changed since I moved five years ago, KY state licenses used to have an agreement on the back for the licensed driver and two witnesses to sign if they wanted to be organ donors in case of death. Why couldn't they have a general advanced directives/living will agreement also? How many people DON'T carry their ID or license with them? It's almost always there and easier to keep with you than a bunch of legal forms and so forth. And it's easier to sign if you so desire to make your wishes known.

Of course, anyone who wants specifics wouldn't have to sign it and, therefore, could (and should) have their own specific wishes spelled out for family, physicians, and/or lawyers.

It would sure save families the heartbreak and pain that Terri's family is having to suffer now.