ATL: JOSEPHINE - Remnants - Discussion

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drezee
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Re: ATL: INVEST 95L - Discussion

#161 Postby drezee » Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:37 am

wxman57 wrote:
plasticup wrote:
wxman57 wrote:Seriously, a depression? The bar is being lowered...

http://wxman57.com/images/95L.JPG


Gotta satisfy that "hyperactive" prediction! 2005 was like that too - every little wisp with some spin was given a name. There were 3-4 "Tropical Storms" that lasted <24 hours.


I would not accuse the NHC of falsely trying to pump up the numbers. However, the requirements for what qualifies as a named storm have changed significantly during my 40+ years as a hurricane forecaster.

The data is the data. NHC also downgrades after the season...
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Re: ATL: INVEST 95L - Discussion

#162 Postby drezee » Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:37 am

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Re: ATL: INVEST 95L - Discussion

#163 Postby Hypercane_Kyle » Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:47 am

Before we get our pitchforks out, I'll point out that the NHC has not declared this a tropical depression yet.
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My posts are my own personal opinion, defer to the National Hurricane Center (NHC) and other NOAA products for decision making during hurricane season.

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Re: ATL: INVEST 95L - Discussion

#164 Postby HurricaneEnzo » Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:48 am

Yeah we are far more technically advanced with better data than we were 40 years ago. I've said before if it has met the criteria in place name it. I don't care if it fizzles an hour afterwards. As for this storm it has some work to do but has roughly 48hrs to do it. Still decent odds for classification.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 95L - Discussion

#165 Postby wxman57 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:51 am

Last month, I decided to look back through the best track data to the 1800s to count the number of short-lived storms (2 days or less). Most of them in the 1800s were only short-lived because they could not be detected unless they were passing land. You can see that the number of short-lived storms is steadily increasing, but not necessarily because there are more now than existed in the past. The reason is likely due to better detection techniques combined with changing qualifications for naming. Twenty-storm seasons may become more common in the future, mostly due to short-lived tropical storms or subtropical storms, but the numbers of hurricanes and major hurricanes won't change much.

Image
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Re: ATL: INVEST 95L - Discussion

#166 Postby TheStormExpert » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:15 am

wxman57 wrote:Last month, I decided to look back through the best track data to the 1800s to count the number of short-lived storms (2 days or less). Most of them in the 1800s were only short-lived because they could not be detected unless they were passing land. You can see that the number of short-lived storms is steadily increasing, but not necessarily because there are more now than existed in the past. The reason is likely due to better detection techniques combined with changing qualifications for naming. Twenty-storm seasons may become more common in the future, mostly due to short-lived tropical storms or subtropical storms, but the numbers of hurricanes and major hurricanes won't change much.

http://wxman57.com/images/Short-Lived.JPG

This right here why we could see a high number of named storms but a much lower number of hurricanes or major hurricanes this year and in coming years.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 95L - Discussion

#167 Postby wxman57 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:24 am

You can see a small vortex on the west side of the broad low pressure area. It's rotating southward.

Image
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Re: ATL: INVEST 95L - Discussion

#168 Postby toad strangler » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:29 am

TheStormExpert wrote:
wxman57 wrote:Last month, I decided to look back through the best track data to the 1800s to count the number of short-lived storms (2 days or less). Most of them in the 1800s were only short-lived because they could not be detected unless they were passing land. You can see that the number of short-lived storms is steadily increasing, but not necessarily because there are more now than existed in the past. The reason is likely due to better detection techniques combined with changing qualifications for naming. Twenty-storm seasons may become more common in the future, mostly due to short-lived tropical storms or subtropical storms, but the numbers of hurricanes and major hurricanes won't change much.

http://wxman57.com/images/Short-Lived.JPG

This right here why we could see a high number of named storms but a much lower number of hurricanes or major hurricanes this year and in coming years.


Huh? He just said that hurricanes and major hurricanes numbers would stay the same pretty much the same. Which makes absolute sense.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 95L - Discussion

#169 Postby GCANE » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:31 am

Tropical Cyclone Formation Alert just went up

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Re: ATL: INVEST 95L - Discussion

#170 Postby TheStormExpert » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:31 am

toad strangler wrote:
TheStormExpert wrote:
wxman57 wrote:Last month, I decided to look back through the best track data to the 1800s to count the number of short-lived storms (2 days or less). Most of them in the 1800s were only short-lived because they could not be detected unless they were passing land. You can see that the number of short-lived storms is steadily increasing, but not necessarily because there are more now than existed in the past. The reason is likely due to better detection techniques combined with changing qualifications for naming. Twenty-storm seasons may become more common in the future, mostly due to short-lived tropical storms or subtropical storms, but the numbers of hurricanes and major hurricanes won't change much.

http://wxman57.com/images/Short-Lived.JPG

This right here why we could see a high number of named storms but a much lower number of hurricanes or major hurricanes this year and in coming years.


He just said that hurricanes and major hurricanes numbers would stay the same. Which makes absolute sense.

I meant the contrast. Yes we will still see the normal or same amount of hurricanes, but high amounts of named storms will be more common especially in favorable years like this.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 95L - Discussion

#171 Postby GCANE » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:35 am

That new mesovort appears to be firing off a couple small cells.
Could reform here.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 95L - Discussion

#172 Postby EquusStorm » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:36 am

That's why I don't like hearing comparisons that recent years have more named storms, etc; were the earlier years to repeat themselves today there would be a lot more named storms than are on record since we're catching and classifying the less obvious ones now with much improved tech and less ultra stringent standards. So it's really misleading to see alarmist articles of how much higher our storm count is now.

Note that absolutely I think weaker, briefer storms should certainly be classified into the database somehow when they meet criterion (marginal subtropical storms that never become tropical getting named like a tropical hurricane, kinda on the fence about) just that it's improper for alarmists to say we're having far more now than then. An 8 storm season sixty years ago would probably be 13 now. Maybe number more and name fewer, I dunno. The spree of 12 hour long storms getting named is annoying but I still think they shouldn't be completely ignored
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Re: ATL: INVEST 95L - Discussion

#173 Postby gfsperpendicular » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:42 am

Looks like maybe some new convection near that center. This is one weird-looking disturbance lol
Image
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Re: ATL: INVEST 95L - Discussion

#174 Postby GCANE » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:43 am

Buoy 13008
15.0N 38.0W

22 knot sustained winds.
25 knot gusts.
1013 mb
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Re: ATL: INVEST 95L - Discussion

#175 Postby GCANE » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:46 am

Banded cumulus forming on the east side of the CoC.
Looks like the mesovort will be it.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 95L - Discussion

#176 Postby NDG » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:59 am

wxman57 wrote:You can see a small vortex on the west side of the broad low pressure area. It's rotating southward.

http://wxman57.com/images/95La.JPG


It looks to me like is about to start heading WNW.
But I agree circulation still looks kind of broad with multiple vorticities around it with perhaps the one we are talking about becoming the dominant one.

Image
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Re: ATL: INVEST 95L - Discussion

#177 Postby cycloneye » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:05 am

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Re: ATL: INVEST 95L - Discussion

#178 Postby NDG » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:07 am

wxman57 wrote:Last month, I decided to look back through the best track data to the 1800s to count the number of short-lived storms (2 days or less). Most of them in the 1800s were only short-lived because they could not be detected unless they were passing land. You can see that the number of short-lived storms is steadily increasing, but not necessarily because there are more now than existed in the past. The reason is likely due to better detection techniques combined with changing qualifications for naming. Twenty-storm seasons may become more common in the future, mostly due to short-lived tropical storms or subtropical storms, but the numbers of hurricanes and major hurricanes won't change much.

http://wxman57.com/images/Short-Lived.JPG


Interesting that the big uptick happened after recon flights started and even more after they started naming subtropical systems but not so much after the satellite era started.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 95L - Models

#179 Postby NDG » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:11 am

TheStormExpert wrote:Is it just shear that causes dissipation or is it also dry air?


Both.
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Re: ATL: INVEST 95L - Discussion

#180 Postby ConvergenceZone » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:26 am

TheStormExpert wrote:
wxman57 wrote:Last month, I decided to look back through the best track data to the 1800s to count the number of short-lived storms (2 days or less). Most of them in the 1800s were only short-lived because they could not be detected unless they were passing land. You can see that the number of short-lived storms is steadily increasing, but not necessarily because there are more now than existed in the past. The reason is likely due to better detection techniques combined with changing qualifications for naming. Twenty-storm seasons may become more common in the future, mostly due to short-lived tropical storms or subtropical storms, but the numbers of hurricanes and major hurricanes won't change much.

http://wxman57.com/images/Short-Lived.JPG

This right here why we could see a high number of named storms but a much lower number of hurricanes or major hurricanes this year and in coming years.


I agree with both posts. I expect lots of depressions and storms. It will remain to be seen if we get many hurricanes the rest of the season. I think we will get a couple more hurricanes in September though. Conditions will probably be a bit better by then, before everything slowly winds down
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