2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

This is the general tropical discussion area. Anyone can take their shot at predicting a storms path.

Moderator: S2k Moderators

Forum rules

The posts in this forum are NOT official forecasts and should not be used as such. They are just the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. They are NOT endorsed by any professional institution or STORM2K. For official information, please refer to products from the National Hurricane Center and National Weather Service.

Help Support Storm2K
Message
Author
User avatar
Category5Kaiju
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 4097
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:45 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2721 Postby Category5Kaiju » Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:03 pm

Grace has demonstrated two important things:

1. This year is no 2013 repeat. Heck no.

2. The MDR may not be anomalously warm, but the West Atlantic sure is more than favorable for powerful hurricanes otherwise.

Buckle up, we have ways to go folks.
20 likes   
Unless explicitly stated, all info in my posts is based on my own opinions and observations. Tropical storms and hurricanes can be extremely dangerous. Do not think you can beat Mother Nature. Refer to an accredited weather research agency or meteorologist if you need to make serious decisions regarding an approaching storm.

User avatar
Landy
Category 1
Category 1
Posts: 338
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 7:43 pm
Location: Port Orange, FL

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2722 Postby Landy » Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:10 pm

I hope Grace finally puts an end to the season cancel posts. This August has shown more than enough to disprove such thoughts and we still have a bit over a week left to go for the month. :spam:
9 likes   

User avatar
CyclonicFury
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 2025
Age: 26
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:32 pm
Location: NC
Contact:

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2723 Postby CyclonicFury » Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:17 pm

As we commonly see with active Atlantic hurricane seasons, the first major hurricane is a major hurricane in the Gulf of Mexico in August. This happened in 2017 with Harvey, and 2020 with Laura. Usually the western part of the basin becomes favorable before the eastern part of the basin, and it's likely a result of MJO progression. Henri is likely to become a hurricane tomorrow, which would get us to 8-3-1 with above average ACE with the potential for more activity later this month as indicated by ensembles.

I have mentioned many times that no Atlantic hurricane season since 2009 had a major hurricane before August 20. Dr. Gray would ring the bell on August 20 for a reason.
16 likes   
NCSU B.S. in Meteorology Class of 2021. Tropical weather blogger at http://www.cyclonicfury.com. My forecasts and thoughts are NOT official, for official forecasts please consult the National Hurricane Center.

User avatar
galaxy401
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 2419
Age: 30
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:04 pm
Location: Casa Grande, Arizona

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2724 Postby galaxy401 » Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:27 pm

This season could see this naming list finally get some more usage. Since 2003, the list was the most unluckiest one since it always happened on El Nino years. Names past Kate have been rare and the list has never seen any names past Peter. Every other naming list has used the R name. We'll see if this year can push it or not.
1 likes   
Got my eyes on moving right into Hurricane Alley: Florida.

User avatar
Hammy
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 5849
Age: 41
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 5:25 pm
Contact:

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2725 Postby Hammy » Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:54 pm

galaxy401 wrote:This season could see this naming list finally get some more usage. Since 2003, the list was the most unluckiest one since it always happened on El Nino years. Names past Kate have been rare and the list has never seen any names past Peter. Every other naming list has used the R name. We'll see if this year can push it or not.


Isn't 2003 pretty much the only year that went past Kate?
0 likes   
The above post is not official and should not be used as such. It is the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. It is not endorsed by any professional institution or storm2k.org. For official information, please refer to the NHC and NWS products.

User avatar
Teban54
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 3206
Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 1:19 pm

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2726 Postby Teban54 » Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:01 pm

Hammy wrote:
galaxy401 wrote:This season could see this naming list finally get some more usage. Since 2003, the list was the most unluckiest one since it always happened on El Nino years. Names past Kate have been rare and the list has never seen any names past Peter. Every other naming list has used the R name. We'll see if this year can push it or not.


Isn't 2003 pretty much the only year that went past Kate?


Indeed it is. Two other seasons, 1985 and 2015, stopped at Kate.
0 likes   

User avatar
AtlanticWind
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 1889
Age: 66
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2004 9:57 pm
Location: Plantation,Fla

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2727 Postby AtlanticWind » Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:07 pm

I really think, unfortunately , we are looking at a very high ACE this season.
2 likes   

User avatar
Steve
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 9621
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2003 11:41 pm
Location: Not a state-caster

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2728 Postby Steve » Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:09 pm

Teban54 wrote:
Hammy wrote:
galaxy401 wrote:This season could see this naming list finally get some more usage. Since 2003, the list was the most unluckiest one since it always happened on El Nino years. Names past Kate have been rare and the list has never seen any names past Peter. Every other naming list has used the R name. We'll see if this year can push it or not.


Isn't 2003 pretty much the only year that went past Kate?


Indeed it is. Two other seasons, 1985 and 2015, stopped at Kate.


Not sure how old you are, but 1985 was considered an active season for that era. haha
2 likes   

User avatar
Steve
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 9621
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2003 11:41 pm
Location: Not a state-caster

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2729 Postby Steve » Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:14 pm

Landy wrote:I hope Grace finally puts an end to the season cancel posts. This August has shown more than enough to disprove such thoughts and we still have a bit over a week left to go for the month. :spam:


Maybe it's just me, but it seems those posts are significantly down this year from pretty much every other year I've been on the site (+/- 2002).
8 likes   

Shell Mound
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 2434
Age: 32
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:39 pm
Location: St. Petersburg, FL → Scandinavia

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2730 Postby Shell Mound » Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:25 pm

Well, now I’m definitely recalibrating my earlier posts, given that Grace became a hurricane in the W Caribbean and then a MH in the BoC.
11 likes   
CVW / MiamiensisWx / Shell Mound
The posts in this forum are NOT official forecasts and should not be used as such. They are just the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. They are NOT endorsed by any professional institution or STORM2K. For official information, please refer to products from the NHC and NWS.

MarioProtVI
Category 4
Category 4
Posts: 935
Age: 24
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:33 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2731 Postby MarioProtVI » Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:46 pm

Shell Mound wrote:Well, now I’m definitely recalibrating my earlier posts, given that Grace became a hurricane in the W Caribbean and then a MH in the BoC.

Maybe this could be an indicator to always be patient and not immediately downcast based on sometimes dubious trends and that August 20 is a set date for a specific reason in the hurricane season? :lol: :lol:
8 likes   

User avatar
WiscoWx02
Category 1
Category 1
Posts: 391
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:09 pm

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2732 Postby WiscoWx02 » Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:01 am

Just got back from storm chasing and wow :eek: Grace is a solid category 3 hurricane! In the 7 years I have been tracking hurricanes, I have never witnessed one in the Atlantic this early if memory serves. With Henri about to become the third hurricane of the season, I don't think we have had 3 hurricanes already by this point in the last 7 years either but I'm not 100% sure on that one. August 20th is a magical day for the wrong reason no denying.
3 likes   

User avatar
Hammy
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 5849
Age: 41
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 5:25 pm
Contact:

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2733 Postby Hammy » Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:04 am

CyclonicFury wrote:As we commonly see with active Atlantic hurricane seasons, the first major hurricane is a major hurricane in the Gulf of Mexico in August. This happened in 2017 with Harvey, and 2020 with Laura. Usually the western part of the basin becomes favorable before the eastern part of the basin, and it's likely a result of MJO progression. Henri is likely to become a hurricane tomorrow, which would get us to 8-3-1 with above average ACE with the potential for more activity later this month as indicated by ensembles.

I have mentioned many times that no Atlantic hurricane season since 2009 had a major hurricane before August 20. Dr. Gray would ring the bell on August 20 for a reason.


If you include years where the first major was earlier, it's a remarkably good indicator--1980, 1985, 1999, 2004, 2005, 2008 (Gustav was 110 but close enough :wink: ), 2017, and 2020 all had major hurricanes during August and saw an active season (most being hyperactive in fact.) The only exceptions in the last four decades were 1983 and 1992, and neither of those had named storms before August 15.

In fact during that period, the only years to have a major hurricane at all prior to September and end up average to below average were 1983, 1991, 1992, and 2009--and none had more than two storms by that point.
Last edited by Hammy on Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
4 likes   
The above post is not official and should not be used as such. It is the opinion of the poster and may or may not be backed by sound meteorological data. It is not endorsed by any professional institution or storm2k.org. For official information, please refer to the NHC and NWS products.

User avatar
Landy
Category 1
Category 1
Posts: 338
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2021 7:43 pm
Location: Port Orange, FL

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2734 Postby Landy » Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:05 am

Steve wrote:
Landy wrote:I hope Grace finally puts an end to the season cancel posts. This August has shown more than enough to disprove such thoughts and we still have a bit over a week left to go for the month. :spam:


Maybe it's just me, but it seems those posts are significantly down this year from pretty much every other year I've been on the site (+/- 2002).


Yeah I doubt you're wrong. I've only seen the posts from last year and this year so I have limited knowledge regarding that, though I may have some idea on how far it can get based on others references back to 2017. Perhaps I should read back. :lol:

Personally I felt the month-long break of tropical cyclogenesis brought about a little surge of them similar to but less than last year's quantity > quality posts. Regardless just like then they'll probably phase out over time as we reach the first and second climatological peaks respectively.
Last edited by Landy on Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1 likes   

User avatar
Teban54
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 3206
Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 1:19 pm

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2735 Postby Teban54 » Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:47 am

Interestingly, we might have just witnessed the most exciting August 20 in recent history. Here are what happened on August 20 dating back to 2014:

2021: Grace RIed into a high-end Cat 3 at landfall in Mexico. Henri is holding steady as a high-end TS, ready to intensify once shear abates. Another lemon is mentioned by the NHC, but models are not enthusiastic.
2020: TS Laura was just named in the eastern MDR, but was very disorganized and would not reach its peak intensity until 7 days later. An organizing wave in the SW Caribbean would become Marco the next day.
2019: Chantal formed on August 20, defying all model forecasts and NHC advisories. The wave that would become Dorian just left Africa.
2018: Nothing in the North Atlantic and no AOIs mentioned by the NHC.
2017: The remnants of Harvey were in the Western Caribbean after opening up to a wave due to a wall of shear. Two other lemons are on the NHC TWO, but neither eventually developed.
2016: Fiona reached its peak intensity of 45 kt in the Central Atlantic. Two other waves are being monitored for development, and they would eventually become Hurricanes Gaston and Hermine.
2015: Danny just started its RI phase that would eventually bring it to a 110 kt Cat 3 the following day (!!!). Three AOIs were mentioned by the NHC, and one of them would become Erika.
2014: Cristobal's precursor wave was moving across the western MDR, but would not develop until it was north of DR in 3 days.

As you can see, not even in above-average or hyperactive seasons are we guaranteed to have significant activity on or before August 20, so Grace was certainly exceptional in that regard.

On the other hand, the day itself is not a very good indicator of seasonal activity as you should expect: see 2015. Still, Grace's RI might indeed be an ominous sign for the rest of the season, for reasons many others have mentioned in several threads.
1 likes   

AlphaToOmega
Category 5
Category 5
Posts: 1448
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:51 am
Location: Somewhere in Massachusetts

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2736 Postby AlphaToOmega » Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:50 am

There is no doubt: the switch has been flipped.
1 likes   

User avatar
AnnularCane
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 2862
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:18 am
Location: Wytheville, VA

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2737 Postby AnnularCane » Sat Aug 21, 2021 8:59 am

I must confess, I actually rang a bell yesterday. So what happened with Gracie was probably my fault. :oops:
8 likes   
"But it never rained rain. It never snowed snow. And it never blew just wind. It rained things like soup and juice. It snowed mashed potatoes and green peas. And sometimes the wind blew in storms of hamburgers." -- Judi Barrett, Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs


User avatar
SFLcane
S2K Supporter
S2K Supporter
Posts: 10163
Age: 47
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:44 pm
Location: Lake Worth Florida

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2739 Postby SFLcane » Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:28 am

Shell I thought this season was over or conditions were extremely hostile or there’s 5 tutts. Your down casting is exhausting it’s mid aug 3 hurricanes and 1 major i say we are off to a blazing start.

:spam:
9 likes   

User avatar
cycloneye
Admin
Admin
Posts: 145322
Age: 68
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 10:54 am
Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico

Re: 2021 Indicators: SST's / SAL / MSLP / Shear / Steering / Instability / Sat Images

#2740 Postby cycloneye » Sat Aug 21, 2021 11:01 am

ACE for 2021 is at 30.0 and is above average for the August 21rst date. The average for this date is 17.3 units. Enough said,season is running ahead of normal.
7 likes   
Visit the Caribbean-Central America Weather Thread where you can find at first post web cams,radars
and observations from Caribbean basin members Click Here


Return to “Talkin' Tropics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Cdenton12, rolltide, StormWeather and 61 guests