ATL: SAM - Remnants - Discussion

[Teban54]

Um... No and no. If a storm is destructive enough, it's name will be retired, no matter what category it is. If isn't destructive enough, it isn't retired, including Cat 5's

This is where I read, posted under "Category 5 : https://www.cyclostorm.com/articles/saffirsimpsonscale.html
"Category 5 – 137+ knots (157+ mph; 262+ km/h). Complete roof failure on most buildings. Many buildings destroyed, or structurally damaged beyond repair. Catastrophic storm surge damage. All Category 5 hurricanes’ names are retired, regardless whether they ever make landfall. In the Northwest Pacific, a typhoon that reaches 150 mph (241 km/hr) is called a Super Typhoon. The damage caused by a super typhoon is equivalent to a strong Category 4 or Category 5 hurricane, depending on how strong the typhoon is. Because conditions in the Northwest Pacific favor storm formation throughout most of the year, super typhoons are much more common than Category 5 hurricanes. Every year the Northwest Pacific sees several super typhoons, while the Atlantic might see one Category 5 every few years."

This is a pretty classic example of why it's important to verify information provided by third-party/unaffiliated/unverified sources. While every Cat 5 up until Emily had been retired, they were not retired for their meteorological significance but instead due to the damage and destruction they caused due to a landfall. Since Emily and Lorenzo did not quite meet this criteria (though Emily's may have more been because it was overshadowed by the rest of 2005), they were not retired.

Achieving Category 5 strength is not what generates a worthy reason for a storm to be retired in the North Atlantic.

Actually, there are a few more unretired Cat 5s. Here are all of them:
Carol 1953, Esther 1961, Edith 1971, Emily 2005, Lorenzo 2019

Carol and Esther were mostly fishes that only brought minimal impacts to land at the very end of their life; Esther was also only classified as a Cat 5 during reanalysis. Edith did make landfall as a Cat 5 so I'm not sure why it wasn't retired, but the name Edith was also never used again.

[InfernoFlameCat]

Im still not convinced an EWRC is imminent. Was there a Microwave scan I missed?

[Ubuntwo]

Im still not convinced an EWRC is imminent. Was there a Microwave scan I missed?

We will find out if there is a double wind max in a few minutes.

[aspen]

Im still not convinced an EWRC is imminent. Was there a Microwave scan I missed?

Microwave from several hours ago showed an outer band that has likely since fully wrapped around. Looking on IR imagery, the W band is broken and the eye has warmed. Suggesting an EWRC has begun — but hopefully hasn’t knocked down Sam that much.

We should get the first center data in ten minutes.

[kevin]

Atlantic: Hey Sam it's been a few days, it's really time for your EWRC now. Just get it over with pal, right?
Sam: No, I don't think I will

[ElectricStorm]

Um... No and no. If a storm is destructive enough, it's name will be retired, no matter what category it is. If isn't destructive enough, it isn't retired, including Cat 5's

This is where I read, posted under "Category 5 : https://www.cyclostorm.com/articles/saffirsimpsonscale.html
"Category 5 – 137+ knots (157+ mph; 262+ km/h). Complete roof failure on most buildings. Many buildings destroyed, or structurally damaged beyond repair. Catastrophic storm surge damage. All Category 5 hurricanes’ names are retired, regardless whether they ever make landfall. In the Northwest Pacific, a typhoon that reaches 150 mph (241 km/hr) is called a Super Typhoon. The damage caused by a super typhoon is equivalent to a strong Category 4 or Category 5 hurricane, depending on how strong the typhoon is. Because conditions in the Northwest Pacific favor storm formation throughout most of the year, super typhoons are much more common than Category 5 hurricanes. Every year the Northwest Pacific sees several super typhoons, while the Atlantic might see one Category 5 every few years."

I should have clarified better, for some reason the last tidbit I tried to put into that did not upload. I wasn't talking anything damage related. The moral of what I was saying is that if it is not going to hit land, the NHC is not going to upgrade it to a category 5 based on satellite presentation. If, for whatever reason, there were to be an issue with data and satellite is all we had, then they would be more inclined to upgrade for urgency reason's. Cat 4 and 5 do the same damage but Cat 5 is more of an alarming statement. The JTWC upgrades cat 5's based on satellite all the time but the NHC never does. That's another way to look at what I am saying.

Nope. Lorenzo and Isabel were upgraded. If there's enough satellite evidence, the NHC will upgrade.

[Hypercane_Kyle]

Core passing coming up on the hurricane hunters.

[InfernoFlameCat]

Anyone else see the 249 knot wind measured by the dropsonde? I know its a false reading but I mean like I never thought I would see a 249 knot wind shown in a dropsonde.

[Chemmers]

I am going to go with 140 knots and 931 mb

[kevin]

Anyone else see the 249 knot wind measured by the dropsonde? I know its a false reading but I mean like I never thought I would see a 249 knot wind shown in a dropsonde.

Haha we're trying to find out whether this is a cat 5 hurricane, not an F5 tornado.

[NXStumpy_Robothing]

This is where I read, posted under "Category 5 : https://www.cyclostorm.com/articles/saffirsimpsonscale.html
"Category 5 – 137+ knots (157+ mph; 262+ km/h). Complete roof failure on most buildings. Many buildings destroyed, or structurally damaged beyond repair. Catastrophic storm surge damage. All Category 5 hurricanes’ names are retired, regardless whether they ever make landfall. In the Northwest Pacific, a typhoon that reaches 150 mph (241 km/hr) is called a Super Typhoon. The damage caused by a super typhoon is equivalent to a strong Category 4 or Category 5 hurricane, depending on how strong the typhoon is. Because conditions in the Northwest Pacific favor storm formation throughout most of the year, super typhoons are much more common than Category 5 hurricanes. Every year the Northwest Pacific sees several super typhoons, while the Atlantic might see one Category 5 every few years."

This is a pretty classic example of why it's important to verify information provided by third-party/unaffiliated/unverified sources. While every Cat 5 up until Emily had been retired, they were not retired for their meteorological significance but instead due to the damage and destruction they caused due to a landfall. Since Emily and Lorenzo did not quite meet this criteria (though Emily's may have more been because it was overshadowed by the rest of 2005), they were not retired.

Achieving Category 5 strength is not what generates a worthy reason for a storm to be retired in the North Atlantic.

Actually, there are a few more unretired Cat 5s. Here are all of them:
Carol 1953, Esther 1961, Edith 1971, Emily 2005, Lorenzo 2019

Carol and Esther were mostly fishes that only brought minimal impacts to land at the very end of their life; Esther was also only classified as a Cat 5 during reanalysis. Edith did make landfall as a Cat 5 so I'm not sure why it wasn't retired, but the name Edith was also never used again.

Thank you for the correction. I had neglected to check to see if the HURDAT reanalysis project had made my statement incorrect, so I appreciate you double-checking for me

Regardless, that just reinforces the point made about Cat 5s. Time to see if Sam may (hopefully) join this list of Cat 5-strength storms who do not cause enough damage/destruction to get retired.

[Hypercane_Kyle]

Anyone else see the 249 knot wind measured by the dropsonde? I know its a false reading but I mean like I never thought I would see a 249 knot wind shown in a dropsonde.

There was a 599 knot dropsonde reading the other day, lol

[Ubuntwo]

Anyone else see the 249 knot wind measured by the dropsonde? I know its a false reading but I mean like I never thought I would see a 249 knot wind shown in a dropsonde.

I believe Dorian, Patricia, and Isabel had dropsondes record gusts of 190kt+

[Extratropical94]

120kt 932.6mb

[kevin]

First pass: 932.6 mbar and 134 kt SFMR, 120 kt FL.

[Extratropical94]

That pass should shut down the cat 5 debate

[Hypercane_Kyle]

Doesn't look like they hit the eye exactly, lowest pressure was with a 104 knot wind.

[ElectricStorm]

There doesn't appear to be a double wind max though, at least for now

[Hypercane_Kyle]

That pass should shut down the cat 5 debate

Debate will continue until the NE quad is sampled, which should be up next. That being said, the eastern quad was weaker than I anticipated.

Doesn't appear that an EWRC is taking place.

[tolakram]

Stay on topic please.