2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#1081 Postby Category5Kaiju » Thu Jun 09, 2022 6:54 pm

toad strangler wrote:
Spacecoast wrote:In the CSU June 2nd forecast, Phil K identified six analog years that have key environmental conditions which are similar to current May 2022 conditions and, more importantly, projected August–October 2022 conditions....

"Analog years for 2022 (generally characterized by cool neutral ENSO or
weak La Niña conditions and warmer than normal North Atlantic SSTs
during the peak of the Atlantic hurricane season):"

1996, 1999, 2000, 2008, 2011, & 2021

Here are the hurricane tracks for those six years:...
https://i.ibb.co/FDjPptv/anatracks.jpg

Total of 47 hurricanes, (27 of them were major hurricanes). Average of 7.8 hurricanes / year, and 4.5 major hurricane / year.
Interesting to note how many recurved and the number of NC landfalls.


Re-Curves off the SE US Coast are standard climo fair and I don’t think are attached to Niña or cool neutral ENSO years in any exclusive capacity. I mean that’s the Atlantic Basin I-95. It’s there nearly every year.

NC landfalls? Well it’s the “Cow Catcher” for a reason. It’s not the Niña Cow Catcher.

Just playing devils advocate. I firmly believe there is no correlation to specific tracks compared to similar base basin or global indicators. IMO 500mb is the key and can be extremely fluid no matter all the other indicators.


To add to this, I can think of many La Nina years like 1995, 1999, 2000, 2010, 2011, and 2021 that were heavy recurve years (even then, some of those years definitely had at least one very strong storm make a memorable CONUS or other landmass impact). Then you have years like 1998, 2005, 2008, 2017, and 2020 that were also La Nina years (of varying strengths too) and that featured way more devastating land impacts. I agree with your statement.
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#1082 Postby Spacecoast » Thu Jun 09, 2022 7:36 pm

Category5Kaiju wrote:
toad strangler wrote:
Re-Curves off the SE US Coast are standard climo fair and I don’t think are attached to Niña or cool neutral ENSO years in any exclusive capacity. I mean that’s the Atlantic Basin I-95. It’s there nearly every year.

NC landfalls? Well it’s the “Cow Catcher” for a reason. It’s not the Niña Cow Catcher.

Just playing devils advocate. I firmly believe there is no correlation to specific tracks compared to similar base basin or global indicators. IMO 500mb is the key and can be extremely fluid no matter all the other indicators.


To add to this, I can think of many La Nina years like 1995, 1999, 2000, 2010, 2011, and 2021 that were heavy recurve years (even then, some of those years definitely had at least one very strong storm make a memorable CONUS or other landmass impact). Then you have years like 1998, 2005, 2008, 2017, and 2020 that were also La Nina years (of varying strengths too) and that featured way more devastating land impacts. I agree with your statement.


Yes, of course, you are both correct.
My intention was to simply plot out the six analog years that Phil K identified (out of curiosity).

What can be deduced from climo based 'Analog years', TC density anomaly maps, etc.??
Probably not much. As you both point out, there isn't much that is 'unique' about these six analog years.

CSU seems to use analogs as (1 of 5) schemes to determine their season forecast(s), and also to "provide useful clues as to likely levels of
activity that the forthcoming 2022 hurricane season may bring", so they might be useful for that general purpose.
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#1083 Postby Category5Kaiju » Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:40 am

Well isn't this quite interesting to see :)

Image

Yes, I know that a pronounced Loop Current existed in years like 2020 and 2021 and had all of us wondering about what could possibly go wrong with that. But this seems like the most pronounced Loop Current this early that I can remember in a while.
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2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#1084 Postby skyline385 » Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:58 am

Category5Kaiju wrote:Well isn't this quite interesting to see :)

Image

Yes, I know that a pronounced Loop Current existed in years like 2020 and 2021 and had all of us wondering about what could possibly go wrong with that. But this seems like the most pronounced Loop Current this early that I can remember in a while.

2020 Loop current in June wasnt even close to what the current is right now

Image
Image

Here's the little patch of loop current eddies which Ida ran over overnight and blew up to almost Cat 5 (this was in September)

Image


I remember that article from the Uni of Miami Oceanology scientist few days ago warning that the loop current seems extremely strong this year (comparing to 2005) and so many were just discounting him.
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#1085 Postby SFLcane » Fri Jun 10, 2022 11:32 am

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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#1086 Postby SFLcane » Fri Jun 10, 2022 11:53 am

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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#1087 Postby SFLcane » Fri Jun 10, 2022 1:51 pm

:crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: nearing 180 for ace this season!

 https://twitter.com/wx_tiger/status/1535328203794956289


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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#1088 Postby cycloneye » Fri Jun 10, 2022 1:55 pm

SFLcane wrote::crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: nearing 180 for ace this season!

https://twitter.com/wx_tiger/status/1535328203794956289?s=20&t=a_JJXIeBDpu0NimysP779A


Posted it here.
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#1089 Postby SFLcane » Fri Jun 10, 2022 1:55 pm

This is insanity folks... Going to be a history season.

Image
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#1090 Postby AlphaToOmega » Fri Jun 10, 2022 1:55 pm

SFLcane wrote::crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: nearing 180 for ace this season!

https://twitter.com/wx_tiger/status/1535328203794956289?s=20&t=a_JJXIeBDpu0NimysP779A


Seems pretty close to my forecast: I wonder if WeatherTiger is looking at the same factors I am observing.
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#1091 Postby skyline385 » Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:01 pm

SFLcane wrote::crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: nearing 180 for ace this season!

 https://twitter.com/wx_tiger/status/1535328203794956289



Going to look at this at the end of season and it's going to be fun seeing how much it changed
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#1092 Postby toad strangler » Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:05 pm

skyline385 wrote:
SFLcane wrote::crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: nearing 180 for ace this season!

https://twitter.com/wx_tiger/status/1535328203794956289?s=20&t=a_JJXIeBDpu0NimysP779A

Going to look at this at the end of season and it's going to be fun seeing how much it changed


If there is such thing as power left in SE US :wink:
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#1093 Postby skyline385 » Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:58 pm

toad strangler wrote:
skyline385 wrote:
SFLcane wrote::crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: nearing 180 for ace this season!

https://twitter.com/wx_tiger/status/1535328203794956289?s=20&t=a_JJXIeBDpu0NimysP779A

Going to look at this at the end of season and it's going to be fun seeing how much it changed


If there is such thing as power left in SE US :wink:

I am fully prepared for Florida to go underwater
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#1094 Postby cycloneye » Fri Jun 10, 2022 4:26 pm

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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#1095 Postby skyline385 » Fri Jun 10, 2022 6:09 pm

SFLcane wrote:This is insanity folks... Going to be a history season.

https://i.postimg.cc/VsbJ9pZF/model.webp


Just something to keep in mind for now :D

Image
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#1096 Postby zzh » Fri Jun 10, 2022 8:40 pm

Image
If this verifies, we can see some significant warming in the MDR. Maybe this is the final piece we need for a hyperactive setup? :wink:
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#1097 Postby AlphaToOmega » Fri Jun 10, 2022 8:46 pm

zzh wrote:https://i.imgur.com/0EenHnp.gif
If this verifies, we can see some significant warming in the MDR. Maybe this is the final piece we need for a hyperactive setup? :wink:


The MDR is not an issue. The past couple seasons (2019, 2020, and 2021), the MDR has always been warm enough for hyperactivity; it was always other factors that prevented hyperactivity: for 2019, it was the +ENSO; for 2020, it was nothing because that season was hyperactive; for 2021, it was the strong Atlantic Nino.
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#1098 Postby skyline385 » Fri Jun 10, 2022 9:23 pm

zzh wrote:https://i.imgur.com/0EenHnp.gif
If this verifies, we can see some significant warming in the MDR. Maybe this is the final piece we need for a hyperactive setup? :wink:

The MDR (9°N and upwards) is only starting to see lower trades towards the end of the loop though. It looks like its cooling right now which should persist for a few days and long range forecast is always subject to change...
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#1099 Postby Yellow Evan » Fri Jun 10, 2022 11:06 pm

skyline385 wrote:
Category5Kaiju wrote:Well isn't this quite interesting to see :)

https://i.imgur.com/A2Ol7wP.gif

Yes, I know that a pronounced Loop Current existed in years like 2020 and 2021 and had all of us wondering about what could possibly go wrong with that. But this seems like the most pronounced Loop Current this early that I can remember in a while.

2020 Loop current in June wasnt even close to what the current is right now

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220610/ef09da139d0472417d9d6616dfebd642.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220610/c278167ea6513b4bb8d2d270775431ee.jpg

Here's the little patch of loop current eddies which Ida ran over overnight and blew up to almost Cat 5 (this was in September)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220610/fc877ebe5021a12e9f57f4a4b4270638.jpg


I remember that article from the Uni of Miami Oceanology scientist few days ago warning that the loop current seems extremely strong this year (comparing to 2005) and so many were just discounting him.


Good thing there’s no correlation to GOM SST’s and overall activity.
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#1100 Postby skyline385 » Fri Jun 10, 2022 11:36 pm

Yellow Evan wrote:
skyline385 wrote:
Category5Kaiju wrote:Well isn't this quite interesting to see :)

https://i.imgur.com/A2Ol7wP.gif

Yes, I know that a pronounced Loop Current existed in years like 2020 and 2021 and had all of us wondering about what could possibly go wrong with that. But this seems like the most pronounced Loop Current this early that I can remember in a while.

2020 Loop current in June wasnt even close to what the current is right now

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220610/ef09da139d0472417d9d6616dfebd642.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220610/c278167ea6513b4bb8d2d270775431ee.jpg

Here's the little patch of loop current eddies which Ida ran over overnight and blew up to almost Cat 5 (this was in September)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220610/fc877ebe5021a12e9f57f4a4b4270638.jpg


I remember that article from the Uni of Miami Oceanology scientist few days ago warning that the loop current seems extremely strong this year (comparing to 2005) and so many were just discounting him.


Good thing there’s no correlation to GOM SST’s and overall activity.


I wouldn't say there is no correlation, especially to the north of Cuba where the loop current runs. But yes, obviously this effects the systems which get into the Gulf which have been plenty in the last couple of years.

Image
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