2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#2021 Postby skyline385 » Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:19 pm

aspen wrote:

The 2022 and 2021 SSTA maps are almost total inverses of each other right now. The exact parts of the Canary Current that were warm last year and now much below-average, and we’ve got a developing Atlantic Nina instead of an Atlantic Niño.

Honestly the only thing this season has going for it in terms of SST is the cooler subtropics. If you look at the EPS the canary current is going to continue to cool into August.
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#2022 Postby SFLcane » Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:42 pm

Folks, its getting a little annoying to see all the chat about oh we are not getting big ones this year because of the sst's. You know coming from someone like myself who went through Andrew, katrina, wilma , etc.. let me tell you EVERY hurricane is a problem you surely don't need a cat 4-5. All you need is a cat 1 and guess what its " lights out". My point is try to focus on impacts and less on categories. As i have said before most in south florida think they have experienced a full fledged major hurricane quite frankly have no idea.
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#2023 Postby aspen » Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:53 pm

skyline385 wrote:
aspen wrote:

The 2022 and 2021 SSTA maps are almost total inverses of each other right now. The exact parts of the Canary Current that were warm last year and now much below-average, and we’ve got a developing Atlantic Nina instead of an Atlantic Niño.

Honestly the only thing this season has going for it in terms of SST is the cooler subtropics. If you look at the EPS the canary current is going to continue to cool into August.

How much does the Canary Current influence MDR activity? Will a cool CC limit or try to shut down the MDR?
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#2024 Postby tolakram » Fri Jul 22, 2022 2:11 pm

What is Atlantic Nina? What is Canary Current? Is someone making these up?

https://coralreefwatch.noaa.gov/product/5km/

7 day SST Trend (Coral Reef Watch)

Image

Daily anomaly
Image

Trend GIF
Image
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#2025 Postby tolakram » Fri Jul 22, 2022 2:18 pm

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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#2026 Postby tolakram » Fri Jul 22, 2022 2:22 pm

And just for fun, July 22, 1989

Image
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#2027 Postby ScottNAtlanta » Fri Jul 22, 2022 2:30 pm

The Canary Current is a wind driven current that is a generally cold current. That is what has been cooling the subtropics. It has very little to do with the MDR. It is caused by the strength or weakness and position of the Azores high.
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#2028 Postby Hypercane_Kyle » Fri Jul 22, 2022 2:32 pm

SFLcane wrote:Folks, its getting a little annoying to see all the chat about oh we are not getting big ones this year because of the sst's. You know coming from someone like myself who went through Andrew, katrina, wilma , etc.. let me tell you EVERY hurricane is a problem you surely don't need a cat 4-5. All you need is a cat 1 and guess what its " lights out". My point is try to focus on impacts and less on categories. As i have said before most in south florida think they have experienced a full fledged major hurricane quite frankly have no idea.


This conversation pops up every July, lol.

This season feels like a very normal hurricane season so far, instead of 2021 & 2020 just spamming out barely nameable storms until August.
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#2029 Postby zzh » Fri Jul 22, 2022 2:46 pm

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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#2030 Postby skyline385 » Fri Jul 22, 2022 2:55 pm

SFLcane wrote:Folks, its getting a little annoying to see all the chat about oh we are not getting big ones this year because of the sst's. You know coming from someone like myself who went through Andrew, katrina, wilma , etc.. let me tell you EVERY hurricane is a problem you surely don't need a cat 4-5. All you need is a cat 1 and guess what its " lights out". My point is try to focus on impacts and less on categories. As i have said before most in south florida think they have experienced a full fledged major hurricane quite frankly have no idea.

But no one implied that and no one will. No one said we are not having a hurricane or a major this year because of SSTs. The discussion was purely to compare SSTs with previous years, yes a ton of other factors affect the hurricane season and everyone is aware of it.
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#2031 Postby SFLcane » Fri Jul 22, 2022 2:58 pm

skyline385 wrote:
SFLcane wrote:Folks, its getting a little annoying to see all the chat about oh we are not getting big ones this year because of the sst's. You know coming from someone like myself who went through Andrew, katrina, wilma , etc.. let me tell you EVERY hurricane is a problem you surely don't need a cat 4-5. All you need is a cat 1 and guess what its " lights out". My point is try to focus on impacts and less on categories. As i have said before most in south florida think they have experienced a full fledged major hurricane quite frankly have no idea.

But no one implied that and no one will. No one said we are not having a hurricane or a major this year because of SSTs. The discussion was purely to compare SSTs with previous years, yes a ton of other factors affect the hurricane season and everyone is aware of it.


Sure its all over twitter lol. Anyway, back on topic New eps should get this place going.
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#2032 Postby weeniepatrol » Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:05 pm

tolakram wrote:What is Atlantic Nina? What is Canary Current? Is someone making these up?




Nah they're legit.

Image

Image

Image

https://www.aoml.noaa.gov/news/the-atlantic-nino-el-ninos-little-brother/

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2010JC006665
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#2033 Postby SFLcane » Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:08 pm

tolakram wrote:
SFLcane wrote:Well this is interesting!

https://i.postimg.cc/ZnYVjdNZ/eps22.gif


This belongs in the globals thread I think, not in the indicators thread.


16 day models? Oh i see. Yea please move.

Thanks!
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2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#2034 Postby skyline385 » Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:09 pm

aspen wrote:
skyline385 wrote:
aspen wrote:The 2022 and 2021 SSTA maps are almost total inverses of each other right now. The exact parts of the Canary Current that were warm last year and now much below-average, and we’ve got a developing Atlantic Nina instead of an Atlantic Niño.

Honestly the only thing this season has going for it in terms of SST is the cooler subtropics. If you look at the EPS the canary current is going to continue to cool into August.

How much does the Canary Current influence MDR activity? Will a cool CC limit or try to shut down the MDR?

You can see the effect the Canary current has on ACE, a warm current supercharges AEWs as they leave Africa. Irma (see SSTa map below for Aug 30, 2017) was the best example of this which started RI’ing as soon as she left Africa. A cooler canary current would simply mean that AEWs don’t explode immediately which is well in line with the Caribbean hurricane season expected.

Image
Image

Comparison with current SSTs (still have more than a month left to peak season so can build up)

Image
Last edited by skyline385 on Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#2035 Postby tolakram » Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:09 pm



Does this have any verification? Is there any actual science behind this?
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#2036 Postby tolakram » Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:11 pm

skyline385 wrote:
aspen wrote:
skyline385 wrote:Honestly the only thing this season has going for it in terms of SST is the cooler subtropics. If you look at the EPS the canary current is going to continue to cool into August.

How much does the Canary Current influence MDR activity? Will a cool CC limit or try to shut down the MDR?

You can see the effect the Canary current has on ACE, a warm current supercharges AEWs as they leave Africa. Irma was the best example of this which started RI’ing as soon as she left Africa.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220722/661a22d60ab2c420e0dafa43f9e289fc.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220722/144f2d893f762f73a11550315c50ddaa.jpg


Source for this?
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#2037 Postby skyline385 » Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:13 pm

tolakram wrote:
skyline385 wrote:
aspen wrote:How much does the Canary Current influence MDR activity? Will a cool CC limit or try to shut down the MDR?

You can see the effect the Canary current has on ACE, a warm current supercharges AEWs as they leave Africa. Irma was the best example of this which started RI’ing as soon as she left Africa.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220722/661a22d60ab2c420e0dafa43f9e289fc.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220722/144f2d893f762f73a11550315c50ddaa.jpg


Source for this?

Source for the ACE correlation? It’s from CSU’s forecasts.
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#2038 Postby tolakram » Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:18 pm

skyline385 wrote:
tolakram wrote:
skyline385 wrote:You can see the effect the Canary current has on ACE, a warm current supercharges AEWs as they leave Africa. Irma was the best example of this which started RI’ing as soon as she left Africa.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220722/661a22d60ab2c420e0dafa43f9e289fc.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220722/144f2d893f762f73a11550315c50ddaa.jpg


Source for this?

Source for the ACE correlation? It’s from CSU’s forecasts.


I'm reading the latest CSU discussion and can't find the word Canary anywhere. If this is from a particular discussion or verification we'd all benefit from a link to the source.
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#2039 Postby cycloneye » Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:19 pm

FYI Adrian, moved your ensembles post to the Global Models Discussion 16 day thread.
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2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#2040 Postby skyline385 » Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:23 pm

tolakram wrote:
skyline385 wrote:
tolakram wrote:
Source for this?

Source for the ACE correlation? It’s from CSU’s forecasts.


I'm reading the latest CSU discussion and can't find the word Canary anywhere. If this is from a particular discussion or verification we'd all benefit from a link to the source.

They don’t talk specifically about the canary current in the discussion but the ACE-SST correlation highlights the impact it has on ACE which is amongst the highest. A cooler canary current simply means systems develop more in the Western Atlantic (and not the E/C Atlantic which is what the tweet above was saying as well) and this pretty much matches the Caribbean season expected as well.
Last edited by skyline385 on Fri Jul 22, 2022 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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