2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#3241 Postby WiscoWx02 » Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:17 am

skyline385 wrote:
Category5Kaiju wrote:https://i.imgur.com/MWg8POL.png

If somebody just showed me this image without context and said that it was August 28 when it was taken, I would have been quick to say that that year looks like it will be a hyperactive and very impactful season. :lol: :lol:


Well SSTs arent everything right? :wink:


They certainly aren't, but when it comes to the situation we are in this year with the Maritime heatwave in the subtropics and extra-tropics potentially disrupting the global instability distribution...then it becomes a bit of a larger issue overall. These heatwaves so to speak won't just disrupt the hurricane season either, we will all likely be feeling the effects of it this coming winter IMO.
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#3242 Postby tolakram » Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:57 am

I'll go on record thinking the majority, if not all, hot takes on the season are wrong. If it was that easy predicting hurricane seasons would also be easy. Larry's work to review of past seasons is much more interesting than any of these tweets. :)
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#3243 Postby Steve » Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:46 am



Kind of what we were talking about the other day - plenty of heat is already in the pattern.
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#3244 Postby Steve » Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:52 am

tolakram wrote:I'll go on record thinking the majority, if not all, hot takes on the season are wrong. If it was that easy predicting hurricane seasons would also be easy. Larry's work to review of past seasons is much more interesting than any of these tweets. :)


Yeah, his posts are always full of good information. That was no exception. I'll see if anyone posted it over in the models thread, but the ECMWF is kind of showing what I posted the other day in response to a question of what did I think. It's got a burst of 3 systems which head up into the mid-latitudes then two more waves rolling off Africa which look promising as far as development. So by the peak, we have the 4th system near 40W and another rolling off the African coast. Both of yesterday's EC and JMAN bring MJO into the circle and do an immediate left turn back which would appear to indicate a return to Phases 1 or 2 by the end of the first week of September. We'll see. Remember, Phase 2 is also an indicator for the Mexican Pacific Coast, so any energy on the western side of the Atlantic around that time could be focused along that coast (EPAC). EC does show activity there toward the end of its 10 day run.

https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysi ... 000&fh=240
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#3245 Postby Deshaunrob17 » Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:11 am

Category5Kaiju wrote:https://i.imgur.com/MWg8POL.png

If somebody just showed me this image without context and said that it was August 28 when it was taken, I would have been quick to say that that year looks like it will be a hyperactive and very impactful season. :lol: :lol:

I would have a thought an active season too. However, I would have assumed stability issues because of the crazy mid lattitude warmth
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#3246 Postby Category5Kaiju » Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:22 am

Something that I have been personally thinking for a bit, but given the La Nina and how the thermodynamics look to be quite warm and favorable in the tropics, I cannot help but imagine that regardless of whether this season ends up below average, near average, or slightly above average overall by November 30, there may very well be an instance where we get a single powerhouse storm that at least encounters localized favorable conditions and occurs, making the season remembered for that one storm. Or maybe even several. The inactivity we're seeing is much unlike 2013 as in 2013, storms were forming as scheduled, but something in the atmosphere was so wrong that Gabrielle and Humberto only ended up being Cat 1 hurricanes, and the long-track Dorian didn't end up stronger. In 2013, quantity was great but quality was seriously lacking; this year, quantity seems to be lacking, but I still think it's too early to make a judgement as to whether quality will take a hit too. We still have September and October to go through, and while some may argue that since we haven't seen a big switch flip that that would mean nothing will be able to make that switch flip happen, that also imho doesn't mean that we will be certainly unable to see a strong storm or two down the line, during what should be the most favorable months of hurricane season regardless of ENSO state and that stuff. If anything, who knows if this year could be like one of those years back in the old days (like 1900, 1929, 1930, 1938, or 1992 for example) that predominantly were below average seasons but featured one storm that came to define each of those years?

The WPAC is now about to feature a super typhoon, and who would have imagined that that would have happened after nearly all of July and August with nothing really happening in that basin, with a severe lack of monsoonal troughs? I even recall comments being made about how that lack of activity was highly unusual for the basin, and (myself included as I am partly to blame for saying it lol) that it was a "snoozefest." I extend that behavioral logic to the Atlantic. I simply am unsure if we're going to go through all of the next two months without really anything; I'm inclined to believe that at some point, we'll be tracking a pretty decent major Atlantic hurricane, even if it may be just one or maybe two for the season.
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#3247 Postby aspen » Tue Aug 30, 2022 12:00 pm

What’s the record latest major hurricane? 2022 might get close to that record if the basin remains this unfavorable and stable. Models have been trending less favorable with 91L, and anything beyond that might not fare any better.
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#3248 Postby cycloneye » Tue Aug 30, 2022 12:12 pm

aspen wrote:What’s the record latest major hurricane? 2022 might get close to that record if the basin remains this unfavorable and stable. Models have been trending less favorable with 91L, and anything beyond that might not fare any better.


No hurricanes since October 5 2021.
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#3249 Postby tolakram » Tue Aug 30, 2022 12:27 pm

So I suggested, with no evidence whatsoever, that maybe the Atlantic needed the WPAC to be at least somewhat active to get things started. The big WPAC storms usually end up perturbing the global flow and perhaps that's what is needed to get the pattern unstuck? IF the pattern is stuck. It sure looks stuck at the moment.
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#3250 Postby Iceresistance » Tue Aug 30, 2022 12:36 pm

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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#3251 Postby Category5Kaiju » Tue Aug 30, 2022 12:36 pm

tolakram wrote:So I suggested, with no evidence whatsoever, that maybe the Atlantic needed the WPAC to be at least somewhat active to get things started. The big WPAC storms usually end up perturbing the global flow and perhaps that's what is needed to get the pattern unstuck? IF the pattern is stuck. It sure looks stuck at the moment.


That would be an interesting idea; maybe Typhoon Hinnamnor would be the hidden "hero" for the Atlantic if this theory is correct and if the Atlantic becomes more active in the coming weeks :D
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#3252 Postby CFLHurricane » Tue Aug 30, 2022 12:39 pm



Bastardi is sooo desperate for a landfalling hurricane it’s almost comical.
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#3253 Postby SFLcane » Tue Aug 30, 2022 1:22 pm

Just ridiculous we can't by 1 hurricane. Maybe we won't have any this year. :double:

 https://twitter.com/MJVentrice/status/1564678307534278657


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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#3254 Postby Steve » Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:26 pm

CFLHurricane wrote:


Bastardi is sooo desperate for a landfalling hurricane it’s almost comical.


He was talking about Donna this weekend on the little of the Saturday Summary I could actually stand listening to. He's been waiting for that since the 1960's and talking about it for a couple decades. haha. It didn't appear to me that the front wave could get all the way to the SEUS, and maybe it can. But there seemed to be a pretty stark poleward motion several degrees east of the US. He said he'd talk about it next week whether he was right or wrong. I'd bet money he was wrong though from 9-10 days out if it's close, that's not all that bad minus the hype of the storm with hurricane winds in every coastal state.
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#3255 Postby skyline385 » Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:27 pm

CFLHurricane wrote:


Bastardi is sooo desperate for a landfalling hurricane it’s almost comical.

Yea with the amount of busts we have had this season from long range models i would not put any faith into that. This season is just not behaving as a normal season with models busting left and right.


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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#3256 Postby Hammy » Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:30 pm

aspen wrote:What’s the record latest major hurricane? 2022 might get close to that record if the basin remains this unfavorable and stable. Models have been trending less favorable with 91L, and anything beyond that might not fare any better.


Otto was the latest to form. I'm not sure what the 'latest with none' record would be given several years had none.
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#3257 Postby Iceresistance » Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:30 pm

SFLcane wrote:Just ridiculous we can't by 1 hurricane. Maybe we won't have any this year. :double:

https://twitter.com/MJVentrice/status/1564678307534278657?s=20&t=uwlgrrLGDXbK41t0K-3thw


Seriously? A combination of extremely destructive interferences in the middle of hurricane season that comes one after another? If that is the case, then 2022 would become a unique analog that would be extremely difficult to repeat. 2013 never featured this!
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#3258 Postby aspen » Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:45 pm

Hammy wrote:
aspen wrote:What’s the record latest major hurricane? 2022 might get close to that record if the basin remains this unfavorable and stable. Models have been trending less favorable with 91L, and anything beyond that might not fare any better.


Otto was the latest to form. I'm not sure what the 'latest with none' record would be given several years had none.

I meant latest first major, for years that actually had a major. It’s not impossible 2022 is one of those because it’s making 2013 look active by comparison.
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#3259 Postby Category5Kaiju » Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:55 pm

Whatever happens going foward, whether it's in 2023, or 2024, or the next several years, I have optimism that scientists will eventually be able to determine what went wrong this year despite attempts to minimize bust forecasts after 2013, and incorporate whatever went wrong this year into our body of knowledge regarding the anatomy of an Atlantic hurricane season and what factors can cause this kind of unexpected, massive bust to occur.

With that being said, who really knows if 2031, for example, ends up as some weak La Nina from moderate El Nino transition year (which is arguably the best, historically speaking, ENSO state for heightened Atlantic activity) and has a super warm Canary current and tropical MDR and a rather cooler subtropics and only features 1914-level activity? :D
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Re: 2022 Indicators (SSTs/SAL/MSLP/Shear/Steering/Instability) and >Day 16 Models

#3260 Postby FireRat » Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:56 pm

aspen wrote:
Hammy wrote:
aspen wrote:What’s the record latest major hurricane? 2022 might get close to that record if the basin remains this unfavorable and stable. Models have been trending less favorable with 91L, and anything beyond that might not fare any better.


Otto was the latest to form. I'm not sure what the 'latest with none' record would be given several years had none.

I meant latest first major, for years that actually had a major. It’s not impossible 2022 is one of those because it’s making 2013 look active by comparison.



1912 comes to mind, had its first and only major in Mid NOV
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