About the UN...

[ameriwx2003]

Mf_dolphin and others .. YOU bring up some good points.. what Paolo also fails to mention is Iraq imported uranium from several countries one being Italy during the Iran , Iraq war. :):)..

[Lindaloo]

I was just fixing to post that Mike!! Good job!!

[ameriwx2003]

Thanks Linda and good find on what you posted;):):)

[stormchazer]

Mf, my point is: this war to Iraq is wrong, and the reasons claimed by Bush and Blair are wrong.

I admit that international institutions often fails, because we all are defending our own interests more than life. The problem is that we should never consider ourselves as the goods and the others the evils. We are all good and evil, we should manage it in a different way.
Which way? First respect, second tolerance, and third:
US refused Kioto protocol, to reduce carbon dioxide. You know why? That's meaning our entire world is in danger, you all here see everyday how funny weather is and is becoming. Do you really believe that who is not taking care of our world, is taking care about the freedom of a number of iraquis?
I think of it, and the answer in me is: no.

You believe what you wanna believe, but please: don't say this is a war for humanity.

Wrong again...we did not except the Kyoto (at least spell it right) Protocols because it would restrict our output but allow other countries to be exempt due to there being "underdeveloped countries". It would have had a profound effect on our economy which I have the suspicion that the EU would have loved. Good try though.

Oh...and I don't care if you think we are taking care of the world. How much aid do we give to Italy. I expect an uprising by you and the EU, refusing to except our blood money.

[Lindaloo]

Thanks Linda and good find on what you posted;):):)

Thanks Mike!

[rainstorm]

the fact is we have to win no matter what.

[sunnyday]

"We have to win no matter what" is one scary statement.

[GalvestonDuck]

Not really.

"We have to win, by any means necessary" could be construed as scary. That could open us up to a lot of possibilities.

"We have to win no matter what" means (to me) that we have to win through military, diplomatic, and reconstructive measures or else we risk looking as though we backed down and open ourselves to being attacked again.

At least, that's how I took it and agree with it.

[Derek Ortt]

Paolo,

Iraq violated the armstice that ended the first Gulf War. That is the main reason why we had ot go back. Mr Hussein gave his word to agree to the terms of the armstice to end the first war. Under international law, he must abide by the terms or else hostilities may resume at anytime. Therefore, we were justified to resume hostilities with Iraq after many stops and starts during the 12 year interlude

[rainstorm]

"We have to win no matter what" is one scary statement.

if we lose this war, after we were attacked, then we are no longer a great nation. our military will be shown as useless, and we will be the subject of more and more deadly attacks

[stormchazer]

I'm beginning to think there are some who would rather see us be attacked again. Some figure, hey I don't live in New York or LA. The last 10 years of history are not enough.

WTC begat Somalia
Somalia begat Embassy Bombings
Embassy Bombings begat the Cole
The Cole begat 9/11....hmmmm

I'm sure if we run now that Osama will just go away.

[rainstorm]

if we run now, we will be running forever

[sunnyday]

Nobody wants another attack!

[mf_dolphin]

The only thing that stopped Libya from it's path of increasing terrorist support was F-111's bombers kicking the crap out of him! Force should never be the first choice but sometimes it's the only thing some of these groups understand.

[Guest]

Italy has its hands stained with blood, that's a shame and does not make me proud of it, but at least is not pretending to rule the world.
Putin is a friend, how strange life is, Russia is now included in the NATO, the old big enemy turned to be a sheep. Who knows? In the future we might bomb Moscow because they are killing thousands in Cecenia and that's hurting our sense of democracy.

By the way, I did not get any answer to my question. I mean, 9/11 caused a war against the Middle East and basically all muslims around the world.
I can't imagine what 16.000 casualties will mean to a people so sensible in justice. What should be, in your opinion, the right charge? Read well: violation of human rights, indifference to human life. It seems to me that justice does not apply everywhere the same, but this is not much a news.

Fifteen years after thousands of people were killed in a poison gas leak at a Union Carbide pesticide factory in Bhopal, India, lawyers have filed a class action lawsuit in New York charging the corporation with violating the fundamental human rights of the victims and survivors of the disaster. The toxic gas killed at least 16,000 according to local estimates; tens of thousands continue to suffer. The suit has been filed under the Alien Tort Claims Act that provides for civil remedies for criminal violation of international law by U.S.-based corporations.

The lawsuit alleges that Union Carbide "demonstrated a reckless and depraved indifference to human life in the design, operation and maintenance" of the Union Carbide facility in Bhopal.

[mf_dolphin]

Paolo, there's a big big difference between the intentional slaughter of hundreds of thousands of people and the tragedy of what happened in Bhopal, India. Was Bhopal a tragedy of the first order? YES! Should those responsible be brought to justice if convicted of breaking the law? Sure. Let's see how the court case evolves before we bring judgement.

9-11 did not bring a war against all Muslims! Your overstatement of the facts does you no honor. What it did bring was a war against anyone who uses terrorism against innocent people! Years of letting these people operate with freedom and support of radical governments is going to be brought to a stop! Those who engage in this type of activity will forever have to look over their shoulders because we'll find them... one by one. Are we going to eradicate terrorism? NO Are we going to make it painful? You bet your tail we are!

[ameriwx2003]

Paolo.. Good Grief.. your trying to compare an accident with a terrorist attack??. while it was tragic that several thousand people died in that accident in India and Union Carbide should be penalized it was an accident. The planes that flew into the Twin towers and the Pentagon were not flown in by accident. Like Mf_Dolphin pointed out we have not declared a war against all of the Muslim world, at least try and get that fact straight:):):)


Mike

[Guest]

Leaving 30tons of lethal acid abandoned without any form of security, or better, dismissing all security measures because they're non economical, can hardly be considered an accident.

[stormchazer]

Leaving 30tons of lethal acid abandoned without any form of security, or better, dismissing all security measures because they're non economical, can hardly be considered an accident.

Thats like blaming the citizens of Pompeii for building below a volcano. It was no accident that they built there. Union Carbide was force to pay the price for being negligent. I would have no problem if Italy disavowed any relationship what-so-ever with the US. You do not want us to exert influence in the world but as you showed with your Rwanda excert, you are the first to blame us if we don't. Typical Euro-elitist rhetoric.

[Guest]

Thats like blaming the citizens of Pompeii for building below a volcano. It was no accident that they built there. Union Carbide was force to pay the price for being negligent. I would have no problem if Italy disavowed any relationship what-so-ever with the US. You do not want us to exert influence in the world but as you showed with your Rwanda excert, you are the first to blame us if we don't. Typical Euro-elitist rhetoric.

I'm excerting that, how funny, interventions are selected where economical reasons "require" them , not where human reasons come first.

And please, comparing Pompei or natural disaster with such a negligence
(negligence is still a good word) what does mean? San Francisco take a chance every day, would you compare those ones building their houses there with a "negligent act"?

What price is asking to pay Union Carbide? Anyone has been jailed for that?
Who decided to remove security items just to cut expences is not negligent, was fully aware of consequences, otherwise why having security measures????

Anyway, Bophal is just one of many examples. The point is that the world's sheriff should have his soul clean first, before having the right to clean other souls.