same sex marriage passed in Mass...what's next?

mf_dolphin · #81 Postby **mf_dolphin** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 7:45 pm

As I understand it there are a lot of things tied to marriage:

Pension plan
Death benefits ( we had a major case here where a female police officer was killed in the line of duty and her life partner was not allowed to collect her dealth benefit because it was only payable to a spouse)

I'm sure that there are more..

From my standpoint it also brings legitimacy to the relationship. I personally oppose same sex marriages. I believe that the age old definition is that of a special relationship between a man and a woman. No court is going to change that in my mind. The institution of marriage is founded in the Bible and a court can't change that.

On the other hand, I do see the validity of the arguement that same sex couples should be able to legally bond if they so desire. If that carries comparable benefits under the law as a marriage then so be it.

#82 Postby **coriolis** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 8:28 pm

I'd be in favor of law tweaking and allowing contracts to yield these types of benefits to civil partners. I could see the concept of a legal partner even in a nonsexual way. A lot of marriages end up like that. (lol)

From a purely legal point of view, marriage is a contract. The notion of marriage, though is something different to me. There's a lot tied up in that and I'd be against tampering with it.

GalvestonDuck · #83 Postby **GalvestonDuck** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 8:39 pm

So, what you're saying is that two people who are not related by blood, marriage, or in any romantic or sexual way should be able to legally "join" somehow so that they can share benefits, child guardianship, inheritance, and so on?

You're against tampering with marriage? I'm against tampering with the idea of two people taking advantage of families, employers, and insurance companies by claiming to be "partners" when they aren't. At least with marriage, there's a true desire for committment (usually, although with divorce rates the way they are, that's kind of iffy now).

Johnathan, no offense. I'm not saying that gays that are currently in civil unions aren't committed. I'm saying that marriage would be a stronger sign of that committment.

StormCrazyIowan · #84 Postby **StormCrazyIowan** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 8:54 pm

Wow!! Hadn't taken the time to read this topic yet, but when I saw how big it grew I opened it up!!

First, I would like to say that I had NO idea that you were "gay" (<---don't like the word either) Johnathan, and I don't think any less of you as a person, just thought you should know! :wink:

My opinion is that while it may be "uncomfortable" for some people to think about and talk about, it isn't to me!! I think if same-sex couples want to marry, let them!! WHO ARE WE TO JUDGE?? That is not our job- it is God's!! If ya don't like what you see, look away!! Yes, times are changing, but it is a natural, normal part of life! While I am not gay in the least and don't think I would ever even consider the possibility, I REFUSE to look down upon someone who is!! You can't help who you love, and whether it's a duck, sheep ( :lol:

) or someone of the same sex, it just is!!

mf_dolphin · #85 Postby **mf_dolphin** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:13 pm

Jacki, there are always limits in life. I didn't say anything about judging people but we can't always just change the rules to fit the minority wishes either. Marriage is long rooted in the Bible as a bonding betwwen man and woman. The majority of people in the US do not believe in same sex marriages. Like I said before, same sex unions for legal reasons are vastly different in my eyes from the courts redefining a religously significant union.

btw, your last statement "You can't help who you love, and whether it's a duck, sheep ( ) or someone of the same sex, it just is!! " is exactly the logic people use for justifying pedophilia.

I count Johnathan and Duck as my internet friends. :-)

I just happen to disagree to some of the points in this debate :-)

StormCrazyIowan · #86 Postby **StormCrazyIowan** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:19 pm

LOL, well I am just expressing my personal opinion, we can't always agree, life would be boring!! As for the sheep and duck thing, totally a joke, but if people of the same sex want to unite I won't fight them. It really isn't a big deal to me- and as far as limits go, they are broken every day, what's another one? Life will never be what we think is right so I adapt in the best way I can, I don't have time to judge others, I have MY life to worry about!

Rainband · #87 Postby **Rainband** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:19 pm

mf_dolphin wrote:Jacki, there are always limits in life. I didn't say anything about judging people but we can't always just change the rules to fit the minority wishes either. Marriage is long rooted in the Bible as a bonding betwwen man and woman. The majority of people in the US do not believe in same sex marriages. Like I said before, same sex unions for legal reasons are vastly different in my eyes from the courts redefining a religously significant union.

btw, your last statement "You can't help who you love, and whether it's a duck, sheep ( ) or someone of the same sex, it just is!! " is exactly the logic people use for justifying pedophilia.

I count Johnathan and Duck as my internet friends. I just happen to disagree to some of the points in this debate

I disagree there are so many more homosexuals than people realize..they are hiding like I used to do for fear of their lives due to alot people who use the bible as convenience..like I said..I may be gay but I can look and myself in the mirror and know 100% for a fact I am going to heaven. I really don't much care what everyone else thinks. We may be the Minority but at least we are fair..Just being honest sorry if this offends anyone :wink:

BTW thanks Jackie..I know who I am is who I am and at least I have the courage to be myself.

Rainband · #88 Postby **Rainband** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:22 pm

mf_dolphin wrote:Jacki, there are always limits in life. I didn't say anything about judging people but we can't always just change the rules to fit the minority wishes either. Marriage is long rooted in the Bible as a bonding betwwen man and woman. The majority of people in the US do not believe in same sex marriages. Like I said before, same sex unions for legal reasons are vastly different in my eyes from the courts redefining a religously significant union.

btw, your last statement "You can't help who you love, and whether it's a duck, sheep ( ) or someone of the same sex, it just is!! " is exactly the logic people use for justifying pedophilia.

I count Johnathan and Duck as my internet friends. I just happen to disagree to some of the points in this debate

Most are Pedophiles are straight.. Just thought you'd like to know. I consider you my internet friend too :wink:

Just some things I wanted to set straight LOL no PUN intended.

StormCrazyIowan · #89 Postby **StormCrazyIowan** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:23 pm

Good for you!

mf_dolphin · #90 Postby **mf_dolphin** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:23 pm

Why does judging people come into this? The implication is that I am judging them for wanting same sex marriages. That couldn't be further from the truth. I have several dear friends who are in loving and happy same sex relations. I just don't believe that their union should be called a marriage. It just so happens that this is a majority view in this country. :-)

#91 Postby **coriolis** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:25 pm

Hey Duck!

I'm not sure if we're agreeing or disagreeing. I said what I wanted to say and the chips can fall where they may. I feel like I'm entering the "no win" zone and I'm not saying any more.

:wink:

GalvestonDuck · #92 Postby **GalvestonDuck** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:30 pm

Good post, Johnathan!

I think alot of people will be surprised when they find out who all is gay. It's not just the obvious ones like Ellen Degeneres and Elton John. There are gay meteorologists like Chuck Gurney. There are gay politicians like Barney Frank. There are gay athletes, gay teachers, gay doctors, and gay entertainers. Okay, well...duh on the last one. :wink:

But I think alot of people here probably know someone who is gay (besides you and I) but they don't realize it. They might work with the person and not know much about the person's life outside work and not think that the person may be gay. But if it came down to it, I'm sure they wouldn't stand in the way of that person being happy, since that person's happiness would in no way impose on their own life.

mf_dolphin · #93 Postby **mf_dolphin** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:31 pm

Johnathan, my point about pedophiles was just meant to show that there are and should be limits. No matter how many gays and lesbians there are in the country, it's still the minority. You can disagree but it doesn't change the facts...

GalvestonDuck · #94 Postby **GalvestonDuck** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:32 pm

mf_dolphin wrote:I count Johnathan and Duck as my internet friends.

Likewise, Marshall.

mf_dolphin · #95 Postby **mf_dolphin** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:35 pm

Thanks Duck :-)

StormCrazyIowan · #96 Postby **StormCrazyIowan** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:37 pm

You too Duck? Sheesh, have I been living under a rock?? (<--don't anwser that!) I'm glad you are open about your sexuality- no one should have to live in hiding!

I have quite a few gay friends- both male and female, and I just don't think it's right that they can never be married. It may be the minority, but that doesn't make it a bad thing, I can think of FAR worse things!!

GalvestonDuck · #97 Postby **GalvestonDuck** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:54 pm

Better to live under a rock than in Iraq. :wink:

But to answer your question...yeah, me too, Jacki.

I've posted in a few other threads about it, mostly when I needed to take a stand on an issue. But a couple of times in humor, like the guys' poll about what first attracts them to a woman and in the fetish thread.

I'm sure Johnathan and I aren't alone here...even if we are in a minority. :wink:

StormCrazyIowan · #98 Postby **StormCrazyIowan** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:57 pm

LOL, I may have to go re-read those!

Yeah, I'll take my rock any day!!

#99 Postby **wx247** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:59 pm

GalvestonDuck wrote:Better to live under a rock than in Iraq.

But to answer your question...yeah, me too, Jacki. I've posted in a few other threads about it, mostly when I needed to take a stand on an issue. But a couple of times in humor, like the guys' poll about what first attracts them to a woman and in the fetish thread.

I'm sure Johnathan and I aren't alone here...even if we are in a minority.

You're not Duck.

Skywatch_NC · #100 Postby **Skywatch_NC** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 10:03 pm

There was a guy in my high school graduating class who is gay but he didn't come "out of the closet" until after high school. His first partner died of AIDS. I have some cousins in Indiana who have a cousin who is gay, also.

same sex marriage passed in Mass...what's next?

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