ATL: BERYL - Post-Tropical - Discussion

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Re: ATL: BERYL - Hurricane - Discussion

#2661 Postby USTropics » Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:31 am

I can't stress this enough, but operational models cannot capture the full array of possible scenarios with Beryl. When forecast track becomes dependent on intensity (as the case will be here), this can result in less confidence in track and higher track error. Analyzing and understanding the range of possibilities from ensembles will lead to a higher forecast skill.

There is some slight radar attenuation here (more of a mid-level capture), but this shows Beryl tracked over the southern side of Cozumel this morning (north of most model guidance):
Image

Most model guidance even from 00z didn't full capture this. This was from the 00z early guidance last night:
Image

The trend from the ECMWF ensembles captures this better. This is an animation of the past 5 runs, which has also shifted northward:
Image

This puts Beryl in the northern cluster of ECMWF ensemble members currently. It's unknown the structural core of Beryl after it's track over the Yucatan, but from current radar images from Cozumel, the eastern eyewall still remains intact (note, it's difficult for the radar to penetrate through the core to assess the western or southern quadrants):
Image

Taking a step back to look at the bigger picture here, we have our aforementioned ULL backing to the west towards Mexico. This will impart southwesterly flow at the upper-levels (orange), meanwhile Beryl is moving WNW with the low-level flow (pink). We can already see this occurring with the outflowing banding pattern to the north of Beryl:
Image

The net result will be ~20 kt of directional shear, as we can see from the HWRF sounding as Beryl departs the coast and emerges into the GOM:
Image

This is where things get interesting. While the ULL will initially shear Beryl, in about 24 hours it will have moved over northeastern Mexico and begin to weaken. If the structure of Beryl remains organized, we could see some slow strengthening over the 24-48 hour period. The HWRF again captures this evolution well:
Image

After 48 hours, as we also see in the loop above, there is a sudden slow down as Beryl approaches the coast, and a stronger Beryl at this this point will begin to feel the northward tug of the upper-level weakness. How vertically deep Beryl is and how far west the system progresses to this point will have significant track implications. One last note, as Beryl approaches the coast, shear will be minimal and SSTs begin to increase. We can see in the sea surface temperature graphic below, this region has some of the highest SSTs in the Atlantic currently. This would likely cause a near ideal environment for Beryl to strengthen on approach to the coast (and I don't think anyone needs a reminder on storms undergoing RI in this region):
Image
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Re: ATL: BERYL - Hurricane - Discussion

#2662 Postby wx98 » Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:33 am

UTSARoadrunner4 wrote:
cycloneye wrote:I leave this and go away. :eek:

https://i.imgur.com/DOtewMH.jpeg

Looks like she’ll be back out in the Gulf by late lunchtime CST. Doesn’t seem like it has decoupled either. Might come out as a Category 1 instead of TS.

Based on radar progression since landfall 4 hours ago, it’s still got roughly 8-10 hours before reaching the Gulf.
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Re: ATL: BERYL - Hurricane - Discussion

#2663 Postby mpic » Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:34 am

Perhaps a separate thread involving pro-mets and layman could be started to discuss what communications would be helpful for future storms? I am elderly and definitely would benefit from a 10 day warning. I am also responsible enough to prepare what I can in May. I feel like like there's a big disconnect between those in the "know" and the layman sometimes. Both entities are at fault. In 2005 I placed all my faith in tv reports and evacuated right into the eye of Rita. Back to Beryl.
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Re: ATL: BERYL - Hurricane - Discussion

#2664 Postby Stormgodess » Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:34 am

Category5Kaiju wrote:
kevin wrote:
cycloneye wrote:I leave this and go away. :eek:

https://i.imgur.com/DOtewMH.jpeg


I know one thing, Beryl will be a fascinating case study for decades to come.


While Beryl is a terrifying storm alone, I really hope that shear-resistant storms like that are not the theme of this season.


I don't even want to think about the rest of the season, Ive been on edge for it for months. It's like Louisiana got a pass the past few years after Ida, and it's our time. I mean I KNOW things don't actually work that way :cheesy: But can't deny that chill that creeps into the bones lol
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Re: ATL: BERYL - Hurricane - Discussion

#2665 Postby HurricaneBrain » Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:38 am

When it comes to CoC, radar can be deceiving too, not just satellite... Superimposing the microwave image Cycloneye shared with latest radar image.
Image
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Re: ATL: BERYL - Hurricane - Discussion

#2666 Postby Tireman4 » Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:39 am

Eric Berger
@SpaceCityWX
The track for Hurricane Beryl has shifted northward during the last 24 hours. This does increase the threat of significant impacts to the Greater Houston area, but we continue to think the system will be mostly manageable locally.
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Re: ATL: BERYL - Hurricane - Discussion

#2667 Postby cycloneye » Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:40 am

USTropics wrote:I can't stress this enough, but operational models cannot capture the full array of possible scenarios with Beryl. When forecast track becomes dependent on intensity (as the case will be here), this can result in less confidence in track and higher track error. Analyzing and understanding the range of possibilities from ensembles will lead to a higher forecast skill.

There is some slight radar attenuation here (more of a mid-level capture), but this shows Beryl tracked over the southern side of Cozumel this morning (north of most model guidance):
https://i.imgur.com/UbpWS9l.gif

Most model guidance even from 00z didn't full capture this. This was from the 00z early guidance last night:
https://i.imgur.com/lPCiWIM.png

The trend from the ECMWF ensembles captures this better. This is an animation of the past 5 runs, which has also shifted northward:
https://i.imgur.com/iYHvlW0.gif

This puts Beryl in the northern cluster of ECMWF ensemble members currently. It's unknown the structural core of Beryl after it's track over the Yucatan, but from current radar images from Cozumel, the eastern eyewall still remains intact (note, it's difficult for the radar to penetrate through the core to assess the western or southern quadrants):
https://i.imgur.com/VlrCXTT.png

Taking a step back to look at the bigger picture here, we have our aforementioned ULL backing to the west towards Mexico. This will impart southwesterly flow at the upper-levels (orange), meanwhile Beryl is moving WNW with the low-level flow (pink). We can already see this occurring with the outflowing banding pattern to the north of Beryl:
https://i.imgur.com/JgMRppO.png

The net result will be ~20 kt of directional shear, as we can see from the HWRF sounding as Beryl departs the coast and emerges into the GOM:
https://i.imgur.com/JW1STrc.png

This is where things get interesting. While the ULL will initially shear Beryl, in about 24 hours it will have moved over northeastern Mexico and begin to weaken. If the structure of Beryl remains organized, we could see some slow strengthening over the 24-48 hour period. The HWRF again captures this evolution well:
https://i.ibb.co/8sJdtnL/hwrf-p-uv200-02-L-fh24-78.gif

After 48 hours, as we also see in the loop above, there is a sudden slow down as Beryl approaches the coast, and a stronger Beryl at this this point will begin to feel the northward tug of the upper-level weakness. How vertically deep Beryl is and how far west the system progresses to this point will have significant track implications. One last note, as Beryl approaches the coast, shear will be minimal and SSTs begin to increase. We can see in the sea surface temperature graphic below, this region has some of the highest SSTs in the Atlantic currently. This would likely cause a near ideal environment for Beryl to strengthen on approach to the coast (and I don't think anyone needs a reminder on storms undergoing RI in this region):
https://i.imgur.com/Nr40Jao.png



Great analysis post. We need more of these posts from the members and not have bickering between them. Let's keep discussing about Beryl in a weatherlike, and analitic way.
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Re: ATL: BERYL - Hurricane - Discussion

#2668 Postby HurricaneBrain » Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:41 am

I’m a little off with my superimposing but the point remains the same, and microwave imagery is showing a further north CoC than radar indicates.
HurricaneBrain wrote:When it comes to CoC, radar can be deceiving too, not just satellite... Superimposing the microwave image Cycloneye shared with latest radar image.
https://i.ibb.co/bg95s8P/hb10.gif
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Re: ATL: BERYL - Hurricane - Discussion

#2669 Postby MGC » Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:43 am

Lots of questions this morning with few answers. 64 thousand question is where is Beryl going? Today it don't seem as clear cut. Big jog north with the models last few runs. ICON standing tall? Beryl has defied all odds so lets see what she looks like when the cyclone emerges into the Gulf. If the core remains intact I think reintensification is a near given with core disruption resulting is little reintensification as with Hurricane Isidore in 2002. I think the core should remain mostly intact and Beryl will regain hurricane intensity once back over the Gulf. Looks like Texas is Beryl's next target IMO.......MGC
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Re: ATL: BERYL - Hurricane - Discussion

#2670 Postby hipshot » Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:46 am

kevin wrote:
cycloneye wrote:I leave this and go away. :eek:

https://i.imgur.com/DOtewMH.jpeg


I know one thing, Beryl will be a fascinating case study for decades to come.

It doesn't look Beryl will be over the Yucatan too much longer and will exit about midway
across the flat northern section of the peninsula. If so, that may not bode well for the entire
coast of Texas.
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Re: ATL: BERYL - Hurricane - Discussion

#2671 Postby Kazmit » Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:47 am

HurricaneBrain wrote:I’m a little off with my superimposing but the point remains the same, and microwave imagery is showing a further north CoC than radar indicates.
HurricaneBrain wrote:When it comes to CoC, radar can be deceiving too, not just satellite... Superimposing the microwave image Cycloneye shared with latest radar image.
https://i.ibb.co/bg95s8P/hb10.gif

So which one is more accurate? Is radar more of a low-level depiction?
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Re: ATL: BERYL - Hurricane - Discussion

#2672 Postby typhoonty » Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:47 am

Pipelines182 wrote:
typhoonty wrote:
HurricaneBrain wrote:Galveston is well within the cone, with the NHC explicitly stating that more northward shifts could come. I mentioned Galveston because residents and visitors are being informed it is not really a possibility (when in fact there is a small possibility) that a hurricane could be taking aim for them in the coming days, hence being unprepared if this situation comes into fruition.


Galveston wasn’t in the cone until 10PM central last night and people were probably out partying. They’ve been out of the cone before then. The NHC are excellent forecasters, but are given a tool that is poor in its ability to communicate what it actually means. While we know better, a lot of people see they aren’t in the cone and it’s an all clear to them.

There’s a reason there has to be a 1 minute explanation of what the cone means during hurricane broadcasts. Given its public facing nature, the cone needs to be bigger, like 80% instead of 67% There’s a decent chance Beryl makes landfall outside the cone from 24 hours ago.


The NHC has the same messaging issue with intensity as well, but worse. What happened with Beryl seems to be happening with more storms as of late (Michael anyone?). The official intensity forecast gets completely blown out of the water due to RI and people end up facing a CAT 4/5 when they were told a far weaker storm was coming just 48 hours before. They may bury in the discussion something about "potential for intensification beyond forecast" but people aren't seeing that. I know they don't want to start a panic and over hype a storm, but they need to figure out a way to get the messaging out when there's a reasonable chance for RI and the strength cap is significantly higher than the official forecast. Maybe using some type of percentage figure like the SPC does for violent tornadoes? I don't know.


They did, it was called the wind speed (intensity) table, and they got rid of it. You can still see it in the advisory archives (look at 2008). I don’t know why they got rid of it, but they should bring it back.
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Re: ATL: BERYL - Hurricane - Discussion

#2673 Postby Tireman4 » Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:47 am

Matt Lanza

Hurricane Beryl (< 100 mph, WNW 15 mph)
Beryl made landfall this morning on the Yucatan Peninsula of Mexico just northeast of Tulum. It is now inland over the Yucatan and has lost its primary fuel for intensification, the warm Caribbean. Beryl will steadily weaken over land today and is expected to come off the Yucatan as a tropical storm tonight.


Beryl is maintaining its core while weakening over the Yucatan.
Despite weakening to a tropical storm, it is likely that Beryl will not be starting from scratch once in the Gulf. Its core should remain fairly in tact, and it will not take much to allow it to begin to feel the warm Gulf waters again and begin re-intensifying as it comes west northwest.

Beryl’s future track

Beryl is going to be walking an absolute tightrope over the next 2 days. I say that for residents of Texas, because as Beryl turns, exactly where that turn occurs will have an outsized impact on who sees exactly what. For now, I think the key player is this trough over the Plains. Over the last 48 hours, models have tended to further strengthen the trough. That coupled with a slightly farther north track of Beryl has led to Beryl being able to “feel” the tug of this trough more, which is forcing Beryl to come a little more to the north when it gets into the western Gulf of Mexico.


48 hour change map of 500 mb heights (20,000 feet up) shows a stronger Plains trough since Wednesday, which is likely aiding in a farther north track of Beryl as it approaches the Texas coast.
So what exactly does this mean for Beryl’s forecast track? When you look at the 51 member European ensemble now, you can see that the majority of the members are turning Beryl northwest or even north northwest into Texas.


Beryl’s forecast landfall appears to be narrowing to a corridor between Matagorda Bay and Port Mansfield, TX north of the Rio Grande Valley.
The problem is two-fold. First, where exactly does that turn to the north northwest occur? That will determine the landfall point on the Texas coast. Secondly, that landfall point will have tremendous impact on who sees what. A landfall in Matagorda Bay means the southwest suburbs of Houston could experience a full fledged tropical storm type outcome, whereas Corpus Christi would be pretty much fine. A landfall in Baffin Bay south of Corpus would likely deliver hurricane impacts to Corpus Christi and few impacts to Houston beyond thunderstorms and rain. Storms approaching at an angle, rather than more perpendicular to the coast provide a world of problems from communicating impacts. Literally a 15 mile change in the angle of approach can add or remove entire counties from certain expected impacts. My hope is that we’ll get some additional color on this by afternoon, and we will have another update this evening with the information.

How strong will Beryl get?

Beryl’s intensity will be contingent, somewhat, on what it looks like coming off the Yucatan. Assuming some organization still, as well as tropical storm status should allow it to begin to quickly re-intensify. The waters of the Gulf, or the oceanic heat content available to Beryl is not inconsequential, but it’s also not the Caribbean rocket fuel that it had on the other side of the Yucatan.


Ocean heat content in the southwest Gulf is meaningful, but less intense than what Beryl experienced in the Caribbean. (NOAA)
Still, this argues for steady intensification as Beryl comes toward the Gulf. Water temperatures immediately adjacent to the Texas coast are quite warm, so Beryl will not weaken on approach and should make landfall as a strengthening storm. Most modeling keeps Beryl as a tropical storm or a low-end hurricane as it comes ashore. The NHC forecast is slightly more aggressive than this, which is a stance I wholeheartedly agree with. I would plan for a borderline category 2 storm at landfall and hope for the best. The radius of hurricane force winds is currently only 30 miles out from the center, so Beryl is a relatively small storm. Do not focus on the intensity of Beryl other than if you live along the immediate coast, as this will likely deliver tropical storm wind impacts to most. However, widespread tropical storm winds and localized hurricane winds will still cause power outages and damage and should be respected.

In addition, while we don’t currently have a storm surge forecast, it is safe to assume that Beryl will deliver a surge and coastal flooding between Corpus Christi and Cameron Parish, LA. We will have more details on this to come, but expect something similar to Alberto’s impact last month, with pockets of worse conditions near and to the north of where the center comes ashore.

Beryl also a heavy rain and flooding concern

In addition to the hurricane impacts we normally see, Beryl will be a heavy rain producer for Texas. The current rainfall forecast is calling for locally 6 to 8 inches of rainfall, but I fully anticipate that this forecast will be upgraded some before all is said and done. Double digit rainfall totals are likely in a few spots with the most persistent rainfall and localized flash flooding is going to be a concern.


The current NOAA rainfall forecast for Beryl maxes out around 6 to 8 inches in South Texas, but this is likely to increase and shift around some.
Beryl will not stall, so I want to make clear for folks in Texas that this is not a Harvey redux. However, Beryl will move slowly once ashore. Even relatively more progressive and faster models like the GFS dump up to 10 inches in spots. So the heavy rain concern is there. Expect more color on this later today as well.

The bottom line?

For folks in the Rio Grande Valley: If you live in a flood prone area, keep an eye on the rainfall forecast for Beryl. Wind impacts will likely be confined to Brownsville and the coast.

For folks on the Lower and Middle Texas Coast and Coastal Bend region, including Corpus Christi: Prepare as if a hurricane is coming and make sure to follow local officials guidance in terms of evacuation if needed.

For folks in the Matagorda Bay area: Start making preparations in case the forecast shifts to the north and brings hurricane conditions closer to the area.

For folks in the Houston area: Continue to monitor trends today and tomorrow. Make whatever preps you feel comfortable making or you feel are warranted. Current forecasts keep most meaningful impacts beyond localized flash flooding away from us. Coastal residents prepare for at least minor to moderate tidal flooding.

We will have another update late this afternoon.

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Re: ATL: BERYL - Hurricane - Discussion

#2674 Postby cheezyWXguy » Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:50 am

HurricaneBrain wrote:I’m a little off with my superimposing but the point remains the same, and microwave imagery is showing a further north CoC than radar indicates.
HurricaneBrain wrote:When it comes to CoC, radar can be deceiving too, not just satellite... Superimposing the microwave image Cycloneye shared with latest radar image.
https://i.ibb.co/bg95s8P/hb10.gif

That’s interesting. It would make sense that the mid level circulation is a little further north than the low level circulation due to tilting from the SWly shear. Since that would likely mean the MLC would make it offshore before the LLC, I wonder if that would pull the LLC northward underneath it at that point.
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Re: ATL: BERYL - Hurricane - Discussion

#2675 Postby wx98 » Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:52 am

HurricaneBrain wrote:When it comes to CoC, radar can be deceiving too, not just satellite... Superimposing the microwave image Cycloneye shared with latest radar image.
https://i.ibb.co/bg95s8P/hb10.gif

I’d tend to trust low-level radar over any satellite product.
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Re: ATL: BERYL - Hurricane - Discussion

#2676 Postby Steve » Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:52 am

Kazmit wrote:
HurricaneBrain wrote:I’m a little off with my superimposing but the point remains the same, and microwave imagery is showing a further north CoC than radar indicates.
HurricaneBrain wrote:When it comes to CoC, radar can be deceiving too, not just satellite... Superimposing the microwave image Cycloneye shared with latest radar image.
https://i.ibb.co/bg95s8P/hb10.gif

So which one is more accurate? Is radar more of a low-level depiction?


It depends on how high up or low down the antenna is looking.
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Re: ATL: BERYL - Hurricane - Discussion

#2677 Postby Tailgater33 » Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:53 am

Beryl for the first time in a while seems to have a large tap root of energy feeding it on the eastern side of the Yucatán ( feeder band). GCANE usually can tell us about the TPW.
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Re: ATL: BERYL - Hurricane - Discussion

#2678 Postby Blinhart » Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:54 am

I'm still calling for a landfall way North of Corpus Christi, thinking closer to the Port of Houston.
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Re: ATL: BERYL - Hurricane - Discussion

#2679 Postby Blinhart » Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:55 am

wx98 wrote:
HurricaneBrain wrote:When it comes to CoC, radar can be deceiving too, not just satellite... Superimposing the microwave image Cycloneye shared with latest radar image.
https://i.ibb.co/bg95s8P/hb10.gif

I’d tend to trust low-level radar over any satellite product.


Satellite is a lot better because it is taken from above instead of radar which is taken from the side and has many different reasons to have deviations
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Re: ATL: BERYL - Hurricane - Discussion

#2680 Postby AerospaceEng » Fri Jul 05, 2024 10:00 am

So from NHC position to the coast is about 115 miles to the coast at 290 degree heading. 7 hours to splashdown.
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