ATL: DEBBY - Post-Tropical - Discussion

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Steve
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Re: ATL: DEBBY - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#641 Postby Steve » Sat Aug 03, 2024 6:58 pm

Zonacane wrote:
Steve wrote:
Zonacane wrote:That assumes the minimum definition for RI is met until the storm makes landfall. Given record-breaking SST and a perfect upper-level environment, I fear that would be on the low side.


We were discussing in the models thread earlier. Lowest I can find is NAM 3km gets it to 983 and NAM 3km has twice (I think Harvey and maybe Idalia) gone sub 900 for comedy sake. So if it’s the lowest pressure you have to correct the bias. That doesn’t mean that if randomly it stalled out or pulled west of 84 and sat over the Gulf it couldn’t get stronger. But if it’s heading into Taylor or Dixie Counties, Cat 3 is the upper limit for anything in recorded weather history. Again we had that last year, 74 years ago in 1950 and 128 years ago with the Cedar Key storm. Most indications are that it’s going to landfall around there. If it’s farther west say Franklin, Gulf or Bay County it’s a different outcome.

The storm is outperforming the short-term intensity guidance. Climatology is nice and all, but is not a solid predictor of Debby's intensity at landfall. Again, record SST and a pristine upper-level environment are a bad combination and suggest this storm is capable of significant overperformance of your priors.


Yeah I said a few pages ago that there are always firsts. But I think caution rooted in reality of what we know has come before, which admittedly is a small sample in time, is the most prudent. But to be fair to me I already said i thought the ceiling was cat 2 which is significantly above what any intensify model or the pros at NHC has but threw in the caveat of a stall or move farther west is a different ballgame.
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Re: ATL: DEBBY - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#642 Postby Hurricane2022 » Sat Aug 03, 2024 6:59 pm

Hurricane2022 wrote:I think Recon will find 55 kt FL/997 extrap

Recon barely found any TS winds so far :lol: #Bust #BustingBadly
Last edited by Hurricane2022 on Sat Aug 03, 2024 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ATL: DEBBY - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#643 Postby Steve » Sat Aug 03, 2024 6:59 pm

caneman wrote:
LandoWill wrote:
caneman wrote:Old girl is ramping. That's clear to see. Florida storms are different.

for us here, and you, glad it went west. Florida gulf storms without shear, go crazy - so muggy and hot this time of year


The Gulf this time of year I write of no possibilities!!! I mean none!


Yeah but the Gulf this time of year isn’t usually an issue. Btw always great to read your posts caneman. Not sure how many years we all have left but still.
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Re: ATL: DEBBY - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#644 Postby aspen » Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:01 pm

The 8pm intermediate advisory puts Debby at 24.1N, but based on data so far from NOAA2, it might be a few tenths of a degree further south.
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Re: ATL: DEBBY - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#645 Postby xironman » Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:02 pm

Hurricane2022 wrote:
Hurricane2022 wrote:I think Recon will find 55 kt FL/997 extrap

Recon barely found any TS winds so far :lol: #Bust #BustingBadly


Still way outside the small vort
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Re: ATL: DEBBY - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#646 Postby Hurricane2022 » Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:03 pm

Image
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Re: ATL: DEBBY - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#647 Postby Jr0d » Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:04 pm

Hurricane2022 wrote:
Hurricane2022 wrote:I think Recon will find 55 kt FL/997 extrap

Recon barely found any TS winds so far :lol: #Bust #BustingBadly


Yet a lighthouse tower off Key West has been reporting sustained tropical storm force winds.

The storm force winds are on the east side, typical for a minimum tropical storm especially the way this looked 6 hours ago. It will take some time for the winds to catch up to the improving structure and falling pressure.
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Re: ATL: DEBBY - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#648 Postby Zonacane » Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:05 pm


THAT ISN'T THE CENTER OF THE STORM
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Re: ATL: DEBBY - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#649 Postby AtlanticWind » Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:07 pm

This is a case when the satellite picture looks better than what is actually going on at the surface.
But this will get its act together ,NHC forecast intensty looks good
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Re: ATL: DEBBY - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#650 Postby caneman » Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:07 pm

Steve wrote:
caneman wrote:
LandoWill wrote:for us here, and you, glad it went west. Florida gulf storms without shear, go crazy - so muggy and hot this time of year


The Gulf this time of year I write of no possibilities!!! I mean none!


Yeah but the Gulf this time of year isn’t usually an issue. Btw always great to read your posts caneman. Not sure how many years we all have left but still.[/quote

Love ya Stevie. I think you me and Frank P and Sanibel are a few left overs from Central Florida Hurricane center. Not sure if I missed any? Please announce yourself if i missed you. This year just seems different. I know many here go off data, analytics, etc... I go off gut feel of living these things for 50 years. Take care my brother.
Last edited by caneman on Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ATL: DEBBY - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#651 Postby Zonacane » Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:09 pm

Friendly reminder: The order of operations for a developing tropical storm is structure----->pressure falls--------> wind increase. Step 1 is finished, just a matter of time for pressure falls and wind increases.
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Re: ATL: DEBBY - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#652 Postby Nimbus » Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:13 pm

aspen wrote:The 8pm intermediate advisory puts Debby at 24.1N, but based on data so far from NOAA2, it might be a few tenths of a degree further south.


1004 mb near 23.7N -83.3W

looked like 1002 mb from satellite.
The pressure gradient is broad and shallow which kept Beryl from RI.

24 hours will make a big difference though and the wind field is going to be large like Beryl.
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Re: ATL: DEBBY - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#653 Postby toad strangler » Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:14 pm

A snippet from Weather Tiger’s latest update at 7PM

“ However, Debby’s circulation is large and sprawling, and the storm may ingest some drier air at the mid-levels of the atmosphere starting late Sunday. This should keep the rate of strengthening in check, and makes rapid intensification during the approach to North Florida less likely. The NHC is now predicting that Debby will reach Category 1 intensity by landfall, which seems like a reasonable balance of the positive and less supportive environmental and structural factors in play.”
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Re: ATL: DEBBY - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#654 Postby ScottNAtlanta » Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:16 pm

Zonacane wrote:Friendly reminder: The order of operations for a developing tropical storm is structure----->pressure falls--------> wind increase. Step 1 is finished, just a matter of time for pressure falls and wind increases.

"step 1" is not finished. The center is elongated N to S. That is what recon is finding. A large area of pressure down to 1005mb. You aren't going to see much in the way of pressure falls until the center tightens up
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Re: ATL: DEBBY - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#655 Postby eastcoastFL » Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:20 pm

Jr0d wrote:
Hurricane2022 wrote:
Hurricane2022 wrote:I think Recon will find 55 kt FL/997 extrap

Recon barely found any TS winds so far :lol: #Bust #BustingBadly


Yet a lighthouse tower off Key West has been reporting sustained tropical storm force winds.

The storm force winds are on the east side, typical for a minimum tropical storm especially the way this looked 6 hours ago. It will take some time for the winds to catch up to the improving structure and falling pressure.


Yup, The impacts will continue to be pretty far east of center for the time being.
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Re: ATL: DEBBY - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#656 Postby caneman » Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:21 pm

toad strangler wrote:A snippet from Weather Tiger’s latest update at 7PM

“ However, Debby’s circulation is large and sprawling, and the storm may ingest some drier air at the mid-levels of the atmosphere starting late Sunday. This should keep the rate of strengthening in check, and makes rapid intensification during the approach to North Florida less likely. The NHC is now predicting that Debby will reach Category 1 intensity by landfall, which seems like a reasonable balance of the positive and less supportive environmental and structural factors in play.”


Don't forget Michael. I'm not willing to write off any possibilities as past performance my be a guide but isn't indicative of what can occur in the present. Record books are always in a state of flux. I'm not stating this will be a Michael, I'm simply stating that past performance isn't indicative of future results.
Last edited by caneman on Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ATL: DEBBY - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#657 Postby Zonacane » Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:22 pm

ScottNAtlanta wrote:
Zonacane wrote:Friendly reminder: The order of operations for a developing tropical storm is structure----->pressure falls--------> wind increase. Step 1 is finished, just a matter of time for pressure falls and wind increases.

"step 1" is not finished. The center is elongated N to S. That is what recon is finding. A large area of pressure down to 1005mb. You aren't going to see much in the way of pressure falls until the center tightens up

Step 1 is a closed circulation.
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Re: ATL: DEBBY - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#658 Postby USTropics » Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:24 pm

Here is a 200 frame loop from 2AM last night until now:
Image
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Re: ATL: DEBBY - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#659 Postby ScottNAtlanta » Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:24 pm

Zonacane wrote:
ScottNAtlanta wrote:
Zonacane wrote:Friendly reminder: The order of operations for a developing tropical storm is structure----->pressure falls--------> wind increase. Step 1 is finished, just a matter of time for pressure falls and wind increases.

"step 1" is not finished. The center is elongated N to S. That is what recon is finding. A large area of pressure down to 1005mb. You aren't going to see much in the way of pressure falls until the center tightens up

Step 1 is a closed circulation.

Not that I am going to argue with you...but "structure" means structure to allow deepening. It does not as of now have that. To start to deepen it needs a tight center.
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Re: ATL: DEBBY - Tropical Storm - Discussion

#660 Postby caneman » Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:27 pm

ScottNAtlanta wrote:
Zonacane wrote:
ScottNAtlanta wrote:"step 1" is not finished. The center is elongated N to S. That is what recon is finding. A large area of pressure down to 1005mb. You aren't going to see much in the way of pressure falls until the center tightens up

Step 1 is a closed circulation.

Not that I am going to argue with you...but "structure" means structure to allow deepening. It does not as of now have that. To start to deepen it needs a tight center.


That seems to be occurring as we speak
Last edited by caneman on Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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