NATL: MELISSA - Models

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USTropics
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Re: NATL: MELISSA - Models

#441 Postby USTropics » Sun Oct 26, 2025 4:28 pm

cheezyWXguy wrote:
USTropics wrote:12z HAFS-A coming in (I'm a HAFS-A hugger for Melissa :lol:), it actually increases pressure some until about 8PM ET tonight (relative to what the run started at):
https://i.imgur.com/2MItvl1.png

A new RI period begins shortly after that, with a drop to 931mb in 12 hours (8AM ET):
https://i.imgur.com/zDtdlx6.png

Now that’s been a few hours since you made this post, and now that Melissa has resumed intensification, do you have any ideas as to what particular reason for the hafs’ leveling off and resuming of intensification? Do you think it was able to accurately see the dry air intrusion we observed, and do you think it could be due to the storm’s western inflow channel being blocked from moist inflow by Jamaica to the north? Is the resuming of intensification due to that channel no longer being blocked now that the storm has moved sufficiently westward?
Hope that wasn’t too many questions :lol:


The short answer is, good luck figuring out the physics of a category 4 hurricane :lol: I'll give my opinion on some of your questions:

From 15z (11AM ET) to 18z (2PM ET) it did have a drop in pressure, but then an increase thereafter. A good comparison case is the HAFS-B, which had a smooth decrease in pressure throughout the day (which verified). The main difference here is in initialization, where HAFS-A did not have quite the compact core that HAFS-B did:
Image
Image

If we look at projected IR-simulations for both models 3 hours later, that gives the most clues about the outflow restriction (and core representation) and some of that inflow restriction like you were stating (overdone by the HAFS-A at this timestep):
Image
Image

From actual satellite imagery, we can see which one verified better:
Image


With that said, it was a very brief oscillation on the HAFS-A, and by 8PM tonight it was showing a rapid intensification period again.
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Re: NATL: MELISSA - Models

#442 Postby BobHarlem » Sun Oct 26, 2025 7:31 pm

18z Hurricane models, all but the HWRF landfall's as a cat 5.
HAFS-A
Image
HAFS-B
Image
HWRF
Image
HMON
Image
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Re: NATL: MELISSA - Models

#443 Postby WaveBreaking » Mon Oct 27, 2025 10:04 am

06Z HAFS models are still showing ~154kt landfalls over W Jamaica.

HWRF is at the same location at 124kts.

HMON is at the same location at 141kts.
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Re: NATL: MELISSA - Models

#444 Postby Teban54 » Mon Oct 27, 2025 10:28 am

WaveBreaking wrote:06Z HAFS models are still showing ~154kt landfalls over W Jamaica.

HWRF is at the same location at 124kts.

HMON is at the same location at 141kts.

The fact that earlier HAFS-A and HAFS-B runs "only" showed ~130 kt for right now (when Melissa got to 145 kt in reality), yet still had an even stronger landfall, is a bit scary.

On the other hand, IIRC it's not uncommon for the intensities and timings of 1st and 2nd peaks on hurricane models to be "flipped". When Milton formed, the hurricane models generally forecasted its second peak to be stronger than the first. That didn't verify: the actual intensities were 895/155 for the first peak, 902/145 for the second.
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Re: NATL: MELISSA - Models

#445 Postby Kazmit » Mon Oct 27, 2025 11:48 am

One of the worst GFS performances I’ve ever seen for an Atlantic hurricane. Got absolutely nothing right in any aspect, besides sniffing out its development in the first place. It’s gonna need some major upgrades for next season if it wants to be taken seriously.
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Re: NATL: MELISSA - Models

#446 Postby Kazmit » Mon Oct 27, 2025 12:01 pm

The 12z HAFS-A shows an insane 195mph peak this afternoon. This would be on par with Haiyan and surpass Allen to be the strongest Atlantic hurricane on record by wind speed.
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Re: NATL: MELISSA - Models

#447 Postby Teban54 » Mon Oct 27, 2025 12:09 pm

Kazmit wrote:The 12z HAFS-A shows an insane 195mph peak this afternoon. This would be on par with Haiyan and surpass Allen to be the strongest Atlantic hurricane on record by wind speed.

Insane intensities from these 12z runs:
  • 12z HAFS-A, valid in 3 hrs (15z,11am EDT): 903.5 mb | 171.0 kt
  • 12z HAFS-A, valid in 6 hrs (18z, 2pm EDT): 900.3 mb | 169.2 kt
  • 12z HAFS-B, valid in 6 hrs (18z, 2pm EDT): 892.4 mb | 166.9 kt
  • 12z HMON, valid in 6 hrs (18z, 2pm EDT): 896.9 mb | 159.7 kt
Fortunately, given that a lot of these times have either already passed or will come up very soon, it's fair to say that they won't verify exactly as shown. But still...

HAFS-A and B also continue to show a second round of intensification prior to landfall, after briefly weakening to Cat 4 before then. HAFS-A even shows 162 kt at landfall.
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Re: NATL: MELISSA - Models

#448 Postby USTropics » Mon Oct 27, 2025 12:57 pm

USTropics wrote:
cheezyWXguy wrote:
USTropics wrote:12z HAFS-A coming in (I'm a HAFS-A hugger for Melissa :lol:), it actually increases pressure some until about 8PM ET tonight (relative to what the run started at):
https://i.imgur.com/2MItvl1.png

A new RI period begins shortly after that, with a drop to 931mb in 12 hours (8AM ET):
https://i.imgur.com/zDtdlx6.png

Now that’s been a few hours since you made this post, and now that Melissa has resumed intensification, do you have any ideas as to what particular reason for the hafs’ leveling off and resuming of intensification? Do you think it was able to accurately see the dry air intrusion we observed, and do you think it could be due to the storm’s western inflow channel being blocked from moist inflow by Jamaica to the north? Is the resuming of intensification due to that channel no longer being blocked now that the storm has moved sufficiently westward?
Hope that wasn’t too many questions :lol:


The short answer is, good luck figuring out the physics of a category 4 hurricane :lol: I'll give my opinion on some of your questions:

From 15z (11AM ET) to 18z (2PM ET) it did have a drop in pressure, but then an increase thereafter. A good comparison case is the HAFS-B, which had a smooth decrease in pressure throughout the day (which verified). The main difference here is in initialization, where HAFS-A did not have quite the compact core that HAFS-B did:
https://i.imgur.com/YDXfAA7.png
https://i.imgur.com/GygG8N3.png

If we look at projected IR-simulations for both models 3 hours later, that gives the most clues about the outflow restriction (and core representation) and some of that inflow restriction like you were stating (overdone by the HAFS-A at this timestep):
https://i.imgur.com/0J0yvW7.png
https://i.imgur.com/pwVJYlr.png

From actual satellite imagery, we can see which one verified better:
https://i.imgur.com/59jqVDh.png


With that said, it was a very brief oscillation on the HAFS-A, and by 8PM tonight it was showing a rapid intensification period again.


I wanted to follow up on this, we moved our usual Friday weather discussion at FSU to Monday (for obvious reasons) so we were able to discuss the pause in intensification that Melissa exhibited yesterday. One of our graduate students deals specifically with this (shoutout to Connor Stoll) and he shared some good insight. If we look at along-shear RH from yesterday during the time period of the intensity level-off, notice this western infringement of drier air (due in part to that undercutting shear). This was the main culprit:

Image

I'll do every 12 hour timesteps to current time, but we can see how this slowly abated throughout the day and into today:
Image

Image

Image

You can find these products here - https://storm.aoml.noaa.gov/viewer/ (under TC Structure -> RH Along Shear).
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Re: NATL: MELISSA - Models

#449 Postby cheezyWXguy » Mon Oct 27, 2025 1:50 pm

USTropics wrote:
USTropics wrote:
cheezyWXguy wrote:Now that’s been a few hours since you made this post, and now that Melissa has resumed intensification, do you have any ideas as to what particular reason for the hafs’ leveling off and resuming of intensification? Do you think it was able to accurately see the dry air intrusion we observed, and do you think it could be due to the storm’s western inflow channel being blocked from moist inflow by Jamaica to the north? Is the resuming of intensification due to that channel no longer being blocked now that the storm has moved sufficiently westward?
Hope that wasn’t too many questions :lol:


The short answer is, good luck figuring out the physics of a category 4 hurricane :lol: I'll give my opinion on some of your questions:

From 15z (11AM ET) to 18z (2PM ET) it did have a drop in pressure, but then an increase thereafter. A good comparison case is the HAFS-B, which had a smooth decrease in pressure throughout the day (which verified). The main difference here is in initialization, where HAFS-A did not have quite the compact core that HAFS-B did:
https://i.imgur.com/YDXfAA7.png
https://i.imgur.com/GygG8N3.png

If we look at projected IR-simulations for both models 3 hours later, that gives the most clues about the outflow restriction (and core representation) and some of that inflow restriction like you were stating (overdone by the HAFS-A at this timestep):
https://i.imgur.com/0J0yvW7.png
https://i.imgur.com/pwVJYlr.png

From actual satellite imagery, we can see which one verified better:
https://i.imgur.com/59jqVDh.png


With that said, it was a very brief oscillation on the HAFS-A, and by 8PM tonight it was showing a rapid intensification period again.


I wanted to follow up on this, we moved our usual Friday weather discussion at FSU to Monday (for obvious reasons) so we were able to discuss the pause in intensification that Melissa exhibited yesterday. One of our graduate students deals specifically with this (shoutout to Connor Stoll) and he shared some good insight. If we look at along-shear RH from yesterday during the time period of the intensity level-off, notice this western infringement of drier air (due in part to that undercutting shear). This was the main culprit:

https://i.imgur.com/u4qudoU.gif

I'll do every 12 hour timesteps to current time, but we can see how this slowly abated throughout the day and into today:
https://i.imgur.com/7IyToeo.gif

https://i.imgur.com/Tq0fB8L.gif

https://i.imgur.com/Oh6UoST.gif

You can find these products here - https://storm.aoml.noaa.gov/viewer/ (under TC Structure -> RH Along Shear).

Thanks for the double reply! A lot of interesting information here.
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Re: NATL: MELISSA - Models

#450 Postby Hurricane2022 » Mon Oct 27, 2025 6:18 pm

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