Hello All ... its HM -- a word about the SECS

Winter Weather Discussion

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#21 Postby Anonymous » Mon Jan 26, 2004 3:35 pm

HM wrote:

Seems like it's doing the same thing it did with Part I. Shows a big snow then makes a last second shift to GFS.


NOT true ..... first of all the first event was a weakening s/w in the flow that was going to literally hit a wall of dry air. AS THE s/w weakened, the precip broke up. AS it was coming NORTH it was trying to saturate the air while doing so. GIVEN that, the snow dwindled.

THIS event is a well defined h5 low coming east from S plains. ALSO coastal cyclogensis tonight will become the noreaster tomorrow/wed. In this case the models were, on 12z run, classic for what they did w/ the ETA wet/west and GFS slighter drier and probably the better track of low. 18z run will not alter my thinking at all. NOT unless its a distinct trend tonight WRT the 00z data. TURNS out the best thing for this mornings snow was a compromise of GFS / ETA.

THE MM5 is unusually wet too which is why I gave the bigger snow forecast instead of a compromise. NO I dont think we see 30-36 inches which CTP MM5 has BUT 2 feet is common w/ these events in higher elevations.



Yeah in the MA we noticed that as last night's s/w hit the cold dry air comprising the CAD, the snowshield began to break up. This was evident on radar trends as early on as 3pm yesterday afternoon.

For a while I thought the dry air would eat up all the snow before it hit the ground lol.



-JEB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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#22 Postby Management » Mon Jan 26, 2004 3:36 pm

Great discussion and detailed analyisis. Clearly the caveat rests with the evntualy track/path (your 1.) and intensity (your #2). The projections listed support an almost best case scenario which is very possible and suggested by much of the most recent guidance. Will need to watch trends that develop this afternoon and evening.

Timing and exact amounts are the main usse, Model QPF can be ugly. But someone in N-NJ,NYC, or CT will see 10 to 15 inches if not more isolated somewhere in between NYC and BOS. Whoever can get in on constant banding, or where elevation helps will be the big winners here. South of NYC is in for a battleground...


Thanks for the input HM, keep it coming
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#23 Postby HM » Mon Jan 26, 2004 3:37 pm

Yea but it isnt the dry air per se ... yes it runs into it and has to saturate it, but if we had a stronger s/w or an intensifying one, then 6 inches snow would have made it well north of where they were progged. The thing was the s/w was weakening, that combined w/ trying to saturate the air before back edge hits pretty much meant nothing over 3 inches into PHL-NYC corridor.
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#24 Postby JCT777 » Mon Jan 26, 2004 3:39 pm

HM wrote:NOT to mention the 18z ETA has the 500MB low into NE OH ---- if thats the case then NYC is on southern edge of heavy snow axis, basic CLIMO. I hope this is not a new trend.


Agreed. The 0z runs will be very telling.
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#25 Postby NJwx15 » Mon Jan 26, 2004 3:44 pm

i got 1: this morning...just give me 6" please on tuesday night...i could care less if Mountain creek NJ gets 30" and i only get 8...just give me that much
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#26 Postby Chris the Weather Man » Mon Jan 26, 2004 3:57 pm

Oh, My Lord! I live West of NYC 18-25 inches of snow.......!
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#27 Postby snowstorm » Mon Jan 26, 2004 4:26 pm

I would LOVE for this call to verify, HM. I am interested to see what the 0z runs say, but this was a nice discussion.
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#28 Postby FLguy » Mon Jan 26, 2004 4:36 pm

HM wrote:

Seems like it's doing the same thing it did with Part I. Shows a big snow then makes a last second shift to GFS.


NOT true ..... first of all the first event was a weakening s/w in the flow that was going to literally hit a wall of dry air. AS THE s/w weakened, the precip broke up. AS it was coming NORTH it was trying to saturate the air while doing so. GIVEN that, the snow dwindled.

THIS event is a well defined h5 low coming east from S plains. ALSO coastal cyclogensis tonight will become the noreaster tomorrow/wed. In this case the models were, on 12z run, classic for what they did w/ the ETA wet/west and GFS slighter drier and probably the better track of low. 18z run will not alter my thinking at all. NOT unless its a distinct trend tonight WRT the 00z data. TURNS out the best thing for this mornings snow was a compromise of GFS / ETA.

THE MM5 is unusually wet too which is why I gave the bigger snow forecast instead of a compromise. NO I dont think we see 30-36 inches which CTP MM5 has BUT 2 feet is common w/ these events in higher elevations.


and not to mention the first s/w was going into the building ridge, and once the energy came out of the southwest, the closed low opened up into an open wave and weakened east. and, not to mention with the nature of the airmass, it took much longer for the column to saturate.
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#29 Postby Stormsfury » Mon Jan 26, 2004 4:41 pm

Welcome HM! Good to see you over here and excellent discussion as usual ...

SF
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#30 Postby Lindaloo » Mon Jan 26, 2004 5:12 pm

Welcome aboard HM!!
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#31 Postby Stephanie » Mon Jan 26, 2004 7:00 pm

Welcome HM!

I know you were sorely missed at WWBB and S2K welcomes you and EVERYONE ELSE that wants to park it and stay awhile! :D

It's always great to see a great forecast team grow and get better and better!
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#32 Postby Guest » Mon Jan 26, 2004 7:16 pm

I agree with the above statement by Steph and a few of the others. Welcome to S2K HM.

Another good point i would like to make about here is that you wont have to worry about down time (And some of the BS as well which you know what i mean) and as well chasing post from site to site. So kick back and do what you do best and thats weather forecasting! Great post as usuall btw!

Cant beat stability!
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#33 Postby Snow Plow » Mon Jan 26, 2004 7:45 pm

Just remember Fredo lurks here too. ;)
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#34 Postby VortexMax » Mon Jan 26, 2004 7:53 pm

HM wrote:NOT to mention the 18z ETA has the 500MB low into NE OH ---- if thats the case then NYC is on southern edge of heavy snow axis, basic CLIMO. I hope this is not a new trend.


Good discussion HM, I'd agree with being cautious with the 6Z/18Z runs. I've never been a big fan of them but I'm not sure if they're more/less valid than 00Z/12Z output. Regardless, they can be useful to detect trends. I suspect the GFS/ETA compromise is a best guess method here although I'm not sure either model will nail this exactly. I don't like the ETA qpf depiction - way too restricted for this event.
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#35 Postby DelStormLover » Mon Jan 26, 2004 7:57 pm

Snow Plow wrote:Just remember Fredo lurks here too. ;)

Ugh,I guess i should get used to this sh!t....
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#36 Postby Guest » Mon Jan 26, 2004 8:01 pm

Fredo will be dealt with swiftly if he causes any problems! ;) You see you guys have to remember i have seen all the bs that happend over there and i can garuntee you it wont happen here! Guys like HM, NJWxGuy, FLGuy, DT, Don, SF is what makes the sites worth reading and i will go to any lengths to see that the trollers dont have thier way with them! Not here!

Hope that helps!

*EDIT* Just noticed your little reply Del. Best bet is to mind your own and dont even think about pulling anything in here. This IS YOUR WARNING!!!!
Last edited by Guest on Mon Jan 26, 2004 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#37 Postby Snow Plow » Mon Jan 26, 2004 8:11 pm

In all fairness since HM is new to posting here and in light of the recent events I though he should know.

BTW HM great stuff as usual. This type of storm makes me crazy waiting for the several points you mentioned to play out. You clearly pointed out until they are answered there are no absolutes in regard to totals.

If I had a nickle for every time we along the shore of Monmouth were called for one (rain or snow) and it did the other well I would have enough money to buy you a nice scotch. Except in NYC where it might only pay the fee for a public toilet.
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#38 Postby VortexMax » Mon Jan 26, 2004 8:20 pm

Watch for heaviest CSI setting up just N & W of where ETA depicts such. I've noticed this during the last three big snowstorms to affect the NE (last winter and early Dec this year, don't recall about PD2 last year). Not a rule, just an observation...
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#39 Postby vbhoutex » Mon Jan 26, 2004 8:23 pm

king of weather wrote:Fredo will be dealt with swiftly if he causes any problems! ;) You see you guys have to remember i have seen all the bs that happend over there and i can garuntee you it wont happen here! Guys like HM, NJWxGuy, FLGuy, DT, Don, SF is what makes the sites worth reading and i will go to any lengths to see that the trollers dont have thier way with them! Not here!

Hope that helps!

*EDIT* Just noticed your little reply Del. Best bet is to mind your own and dont even think about pulling anything in here. This IS YOUR WARNING!!!!


#1 WELCOME TO STORM2K HM!! AS KOW SAYS PARK YOUR ARSE HERE AND DO WHAT YOU DO BEST!!!!

#2 I BACK WHAT KOW SAID ABOUT THE TROLLING 200%!!!!
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#40 Postby Stephanie » Mon Jan 26, 2004 8:29 pm

Ditto what KOW and David said HM (and Del). S2K DOES NOT TOLERATE trolls.
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