Kerry: 9/11 Report Casts Doubt on Iraq War

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#21 Postby Guest » Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:01 pm

chadtm80 wrote:waaaaaa waaaaaaa.. Poor Hussein we should of given him another 10 years to comply.. We simply didnt give him enough time.. Its just not fair.. Bush and his supporters are just big bad bullies. :roll: In fact we gave him so much time that he was able to get the WMD in the hands of some that are prob even worst then he is.. Mark my words the WMD that you say there are none of will appear. But will prob appear after they have been used. and why? Because we gave him WAY TOO MUCH TIME.. SO stop with the we didnt give it enough time BS


Cool...I wont hold my breath.
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#22 Postby j » Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:17 pm

opera ghost wrote:IF we were going to have gone in there- we needed to go in with a clear objective, a clear, detailed plan with international support, and an equally clear and detailed exit plan once that objective was reached.


hmmm...
3 points I don't agree on as highlighted above

1) clear objective. --- what is not clear about forcibly removing a ruthless killing machine from power and liberating Iraq?

2)International support --- I'm so sick of hearing this one. We tried..remember?? and tried and tried., but the likes of France and Germany would not hear of it since their pockets had been lined with Iraqi contracts. Exactly what were we supposed to do??

3)clear and detailed exit plan - you are living in Oz if you think that before a War is even waged, we can have an exit plan. Our exit plan is and will continue to be flexible, which is all it can be when you don't have a complete surrender and laying down of arms. We may be out in 6 months, it may be 6 years.
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#23 Postby Guest » Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:26 pm

j wrote:
opera ghost wrote:IF we were going to have gone in there- we needed to go in with a clear objective, a clear, detailed plan with international support, and an equally clear and detailed exit plan once that objective was reached.




1) clear objective. --- what is not clear about forcibly removing a ruthless killing machine from power and liberating Iraq?



Strange, but I do not recall Bush outlining this as his reason for invasion.
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#24 Postby j » Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:29 pm

zwyts wrote:Strange, but I do not recall Bush outlining this as his reason for invasion.


It was one of them! Forgive me for not making that clear.
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#25 Postby GalvestonDuck » Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:30 pm

zwyts wrote:
j wrote:
opera ghost wrote:IF we were going to have gone in there- we needed to go in with a clear objective, a clear, detailed plan with international support, and an equally clear and detailed exit plan once that objective was reached.




1) clear objective. --- what is not clear about forcibly removing a ruthless killing machine from power and liberating Iraq?



Strange, but I do not recall Bush outlining this as his reason for invasion.


Selective listening on your part? Or did you not listen at all to his speech?
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases ... 007-8.html
(For your reference)

Now, as before, we will secure our nation, protect our freedom, and help others to find freedom of their own.


America believes that all people are entitled to hope and human rights, to the non-negotiable demands of human dignity. People everywhere prefer freedom to slavery; prosperity to squalor; self-government to the rule of terror and torture. America is a friend to the people of Iraq. Our demands are directed only at the regime that enslaves them and threatens us. When these demands are met, the first and greatest benefit will come to Iraqi men, women and children. The oppression of Kurds, Assyrians, Turkomans, Shi'a, Sunnis and others will be lifted. The long captivity of Iraq will end, and an era of new hope will begin.
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#26 Postby j » Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:40 pm

zywts --- you are a bush hater plain and simple. It doesn't matter what he says or what you read that he has said, something happens inside your brain, and it comes out Liberalized (is that a word?) for your spewing enjoyment.
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#27 Postby Guest » Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:56 pm

j wrote:zywts --- you are a bush hater plain and simple. It doesn't matter what he says or what you read that he has said, something happens inside your brain, and it comes out Liberalized (is that a word?) for your spewing enjoyment.


J...Cant argue on the merits??......LOL
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#28 Postby mf_dolphin » Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:58 pm

We did have international support. To say otherwise is just incorrect and propogating a media twisted myth. We did not have full international support or the UN's support I will grant you but there are many countries involved. The statement that there's no exit strategy is also a load of bull. The june 30th date has been firm for a long time. While we've had more resistance than was anticipated, everything I read says that a lot of it is being instigated by external forces who have an interest in destabilizing Iraq, The President was very clear from the outset that there was no fixed timeline and that we would stay the course until there was a free and self-sufficient Iraq. Anyone that thinks that this type of endeavor can be fixed to a timeline like a house construction project is a buffoon. BTW, when was the last time a house got finished exactly on a set schedule?
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#29 Postby stormie_skies » Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:12 pm

Why did we need the backing? I mean it was obvious the tyrant was not going to comply with the UN after 12 years!!!


Can someone please explain to me how it makes sense to, in one breath, say that the UN is irrelevant and its support unneccesary, and in the next breath, use UN resolutions to justify the invasion of Iraq?

I see neoconservatives saying these two things in tandem frequently and it never made any sense to me....
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#30 Postby opera ghost » Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:13 pm

j wrote:
opera ghost wrote:IF we were going to have gone in there- we needed to go in with a clear objective, a clear, detailed plan with international support, and an equally clear and detailed exit plan once that objective was reached.


hmmm...
3 points I don't agree on as highlighted above

1) clear objective. --- what is not clear about forcibly removing a ruthless killing machine from power and liberating Iraq?

2)International support --- I'm so sick of hearing this one. We tried..remember?? and tried and tried., but the likes of France and Germany would not hear of it since their pockets had been lined with Iraqi contracts. Exactly what were we supposed to do??

3)clear and detailed exit plan - you are living in Oz if you think that before a War is even waged, we can have an exit plan. Our exit plan is and will continue to be flexible, which is all it can be when you don't have a complete surrender and laying down of arms. We may be out in 6 months, it may be 6 years.


1) It's the "Liberating" part that I object to. Once again- I have no issues removing a dictator from power. US has a nice long history of doing so without the turmoil that we've created in Iraq.

2) Continue trying until we have clear and unrefutable proof. In the face of clear, coincise, and true proof those nations objections would have felt the sting of international disapproval. France and Germany were not the only countries with objections.

3) Are you familiar with the Powell Doctrine? Essentially, the Doctrine says that military action should be used only as a last resort and only if there is a clear risk to national security by the intended target. The force (when used) needs to be overwhelming to the force used by the enemy. There must be strong support for the campaign by the general public... and there must be a clear exit strategy from the conflict in which the military is engaged.

If the objectives are clear- so should the exit strategy be. I'm not asking for a date and time at the beginning of conflict- what I feel is approprite would be a detailed plan of what we do once our clear objective is reached. Liberty is not a clear objective- although it is a pretty dodge. Liberty is a concept that changes with the person speaking it and will never be an absolute. A clear objective might be: Setting up a soveriegn and capable government. Sure we're working on that now. (I state again- we have done some good- my objections are in the methods)

The only problem with that objective is that the people of Iraq still aren't ready for full soveriegnty. We should have anticipated that before we went in. Duh- we're ousting the top political dogs who've been in power for decades along with thier armies and we want people off the street to be able to fill in the void? Come ON. That's living in Oz.

Therefore, presenting this war to the american people as In and Out and on thier way was a lie by omission- and that's how it was presented in the beginning. that's how we GOT the overwhelming support for the war. We'd go in, kick Saddam out, prop up the new peron to step into his place, and we'd be out PDQ. Very few of the average Joes supporting the war expected it to last as long as it has, or to continue causing so many casualitites as we fight to establish Iraq's independance.

We needed a better exit strategy than... well when life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are settled....we'll call our troops home.
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#31 Postby Lindaloo » Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:22 pm

9/11 Chair Hamilton Slams Media Distortions

Vice Chairman of the 9/11 Commission Lee Hamilton blasted the mainstream press yesterday for distorting the Commission's findings on links between Iraq and al Qaida, saying those findings actually support Bush administration contentions.

"The sharp differences that the press has drawn [between the White House and the Commission] are not that apparent to me," Hamilton told the Associated Press, a day after insisting that his probe uncovered "all kinds" of connections between Osama bin Laden's terror network and Iraq.

Hamilton's comments followed a deluge of mainstream reports falsely claiming that the 9/11 Commission had discredited the Bush administration's claim of longstanding links between Baghdad and bin Laden.

But the Indiana Democrat said the press accounts were flat-out wrong.

"There are all kinds of ties," he told PBS's "The News Hour" late Wednesday, in comments that establishment journalists have refused to report.

"There are all kinds of connections. And it may very well have been that Osama bin Laden or some of his lieutenants met at some time with Saddam Hussein's lieutenants."

Hamilton said that while his probe had failed to uncover any direct operational link between Baghdad and Osama bin Laden's terror network in attacks on the U.S., there's no question that "they had contacts."

http://www.newsmax.com
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#32 Postby rainstorm » Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:49 pm

kerry sure looks like a idiotic fool today. we cant have our security in this mans hands
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#33 Postby stormie_skies » Fri Jun 18, 2004 2:03 pm

kerry sure looks like a idiotic fool today. we cant have our security in this mans hands

Call me crazy, but I get the feeling Kerry could get Israel and Palestine to sign a peace treaty, balance the budget, cure AIDS and singlehandedly end world hunger and you would still say he looks like an "idiotic fool!" :P :lol: :P :lol: :P (no offense)
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#34 Postby GalvestonDuck » Fri Jun 18, 2004 2:12 pm

stormie_skies wrote:
kerry sure looks like a idiotic fool today. we cant have our security in this mans hands

Call me crazy, but I get the feeling Kerry could get Israel and Palestine to sign a peace treaty, balance the budget, cure AIDS and singlehandedly end world hunger and you would still say he looks like an "idiotic fool!" :P :lol: :P :lol: :P (no offense)


Cure AIDS? :wall: Forget AIDS. How about finding something to tackle and kill the HIV virus before a person's immune system is attacked and their T-cell count lowered? Kick the cause of AIDS and you don't need a cure.

Okay, stepping off my healthcare soapbox now.
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#35 Postby stormie_skies » Fri Jun 18, 2004 2:13 pm

LOL! Ok ok ok good point ....... :oops: :P
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#36 Postby GalvestonDuck » Fri Jun 18, 2004 2:20 pm

Sorry, wasn't meant as an attack towards you. :) It's just a pet peeve of mine. I really hate when the media reports that someone died of AIDS. No one dies of AIDS! They die from pneumonia, bronchitis, cancer, or other opportunistic infections.
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#37 Postby Lindaloo » Fri Jun 18, 2004 2:24 pm

stormie_skies wrote:
kerry sure looks like a idiotic fool today. we cant have our security in this mans hands

Call me crazy, but I get the feeling Kerry could get Israel and Palestine to sign a peace treaty, balance the budget, cure AIDS and singlehandedly end world hunger and you would still say he looks like an "idiotic fool!" :P :lol: :P :lol: :P (no offense)


Well I highly doubt he has the ability nor the mentality to handle all that at one time. Besides, he will change his mind several times before making a decision to do anything. **yawns**
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#38 Postby rainstorm » Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:22 pm

first kerry has to figure out if he owns an suv or not
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#39 Postby Lindaloo » Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:25 pm

rainstorm wrote:first kerry has to figure out if he owns an suv or not


LMAO!!!
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#40 Postby Lindaloo » Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:27 pm

chadtm80 wrote:waaaaaa waaaaaaa.. Poor Hussein we should of given him another 10 years to comply.. We simply didnt give him enough time.. Its just not fair.. Bush and his supporters are just big bad bullies. :roll: In fact we gave him so much time that he was able to get the WMD in the hands of some that are prob even worst then he is.. Mark my words the WMD that you say there are none of will appear. But will prob appear after they have been used. and why? Because we gave him WAY TOO MUCH TIME.. SO stop with the we didnt give it enough time BS




AMEN!!!
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