I'm tired of people's 120hr "definative" forecasts

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ericinmia
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I'm tired of people's 120hr "definative" forecasts

#1 Postby ericinmia » Sun Aug 15, 2004 11:38 am

First off sorry for the little "blow off" here, but i am tired of all the ignorance i saw on the west coast this week. I am also tired of the comparison's of Charley with great historic storms. Sure He was bad, but he did not WIPE entire neighborhoods COMPLETELY away, no; that is a much higher level of destruction, the finger of god.

Finally waking up this morning and seeing MANY posts from people claiming with much certainty that this storm is going to hit the Yucatan and spare the US a direct strike, all the while still being more than 100+ hours out. That is rediculous. They are not even basing their claims off more than a few runs they see on a possibly out dated map, or a water vapor loop which is not an easy read like 'hop on pop'.

The one thing people should have learned with Charley is the vast possibilities that can occur, and very frequently do. Especially when forecasting days in advance. I'm not saying these posts will endanger or directly confuse someone however it all adds to the hysteria and hype that we do not need with something so serious.

Here is a link to a few models that point to the contray to many posters beliefs that this WILL BE a DIRECT HIT ON THE YUCATAN.

http://met.psu.edu/tropical/tcgengifs/

Check the NoGaps that is putting it off lousiana cost; review the UKMET which tracks it over western cuban and into the FL Panhandle. It seems the GFDL is taking Earl more southerly with each run. At this point we known a GENERAL AREA where the storm will be, but claiming you know the exact location of landfall is boarderline rediculous; however, if you are right, please pick me some FL Lottery numbers! ;)

Just remember many people around the world read this board. The specific comments you make without discolsures stating your lack of credentials such as a MET degree, or lengthy field experience can create flase impressions in others minds.

Before Charley i would have thought to myself after reading this post, this guy is an idiot, trying to help and protect those which are too 'Darwinistic' to help themselves. Well back then i expected more from people i suppose, and charley simply prooved to me that too many people these days are not smart enough to know not to drink the bleach they find under the kitchen sink, thus the existance of the warning label.


Sorry for the rant, i'm done now ;)
-Eric
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#2 Postby MWatkins » Sun Aug 15, 2004 11:59 am

Well..I'm afraid there isnt much you can do about it considering that this forum thrives on OPINION. If I wanted to read what everyone else is thing I most definately would not be here...I'd be reading along at CNN...who reported that Charley made landfall way south of where it was expected...which is of course BS.

The good people here cannot be held accountable for the dumb decisions of others...including EMS officals or mobile home residents. In fact...if you were reading along here around noon on Friday...NOBODY was buying the cat 2 stuff we were being sold. NOBODY with a monitor turned on was buying the 360 movement we were being sold. You know what happened from there...I think.

In addition...the professional mets are clearly tagged. I don't think folks should be forced to post their resume/bio or a disclaimer...because...as I stated...this is a MESSAGE BOARD.

MW
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#3 Postby Stratosphere747 » Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:00 pm

I don't think anyone has called for any type of direct hit anywhere...Just a general direction that it may or may not go...

As far those that have mentioned the Yuctan myself included this puts a possible NGOM or WGOM threat...
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#4 Postby charleston_hugo_veteran » Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:03 pm

MWatkins wrote:Well..I'm afraid there isnt much you can do about it considering that this forum thrives on OPINION. If I wanted to read what everyone else is thing I most definately would not be here...


DITTO :roll:
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#5 Postby wx247 » Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:05 pm

MWatkins wrote:Well..I'm afraid there isnt much you can do about it considering that this forum thrives on OPINION. If I wanted to read what everyone else is thing I most definately would not be here...I'd be reading along at CNN...who reported that Charley made landfall way south of where it was expected...which is of course BS.

The good people here cannot be held accountable for the dumb decisions of others...including EMS officals or mobile home residents. In fact...if you were reading along here around noon on Friday...NOBODY was buying the cat 2 stuff we were being sold. NOBODY with a monitor turned on was buying the 360 movement we were being sold. You know what happened from there...I think.

In addition...the professional mets are clearly tagged. I don't think folks should be forced to post their resume/bio or a disclaimer...because...as I stated...this is a MESSAGE BOARD.

MW


Mike...what I gathered from his post (and please correct me poster if I am wrong) is that he is tired of those people who are saying that such and such will happen WITH CERTAINTY. At least that is what I took out of it. And on that point I agree.

However, I do disagree with the statement about having a degree in meteorology/credential crap. I know people without met. degrees that can run circles around some that have the degree.
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#6 Postby MWatkins » Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:20 pm

wx247 wrote:
MWatkins wrote:Well..I'm afraid there isnt much you can do about it considering that this forum thrives on OPINION. If I wanted to read what everyone else is thing I most definately would not be here...I'd be reading along at CNN...who reported that Charley made landfall way south of where it was expected...which is of course BS.

The good people here cannot be held accountable for the dumb decisions of others...including EMS officals or mobile home residents. In fact...if you were reading along here around noon on Friday...NOBODY was buying the cat 2 stuff we were being sold. NOBODY with a monitor turned on was buying the 360 movement we were being sold. You know what happened from there...I think.

In addition...the professional mets are clearly tagged. I don't think folks should be forced to post their resume/bio or a disclaimer...because...as I stated...this is a MESSAGE BOARD.

MW


Mike...what I gathered from his post (and please correct me poster if I am wrong) is that he is tired of those people who are saying that such and such will happen WITH CERTAINTY. At least that is what I took out of it. And on that point I agree.

However, I do disagree with the statement about having a degree in meteorology/credential crap. I know people without met. degrees that can run circles around some that have the degree.


To your point on #1...you may be right. Anyone who says with 100% confidence (with a straight face) that any storm will be in a specific location in 5 days is full of it. Good point, WX257...thanks for clairifying.

MW
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#7 Postby Guest » Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:26 pm

Well ericinmia I must disagree with you when you say that Charley was not a historic hurricane because "he did not WIPE entire neighborhoods COMPLETELY away" I don't know if you have seen the images but he did WIPE entire neighborhoods COMPLETELY away!Those communities will never be the same & neither will the people who lived in them.

I will agree with you about some of these peoples long range forecast.Some of these same people's forecast for Charley were atrocious at best even 2 days out & changed more often the Christmas tree lights, forget 5 days out.Not you MW..You do some good honest work & at least you are not arrogant like some of the other so called "forecasters" here.
Last edited by Guest on Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#8 Postby Derek Ortt » Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:29 pm

3 years working for the University of Miami and the co-president of the local chapter of the AMS
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#9 Postby Hurricane Cheese » Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:33 pm

Try telling the people of Punta Gorda that there community wasn't "wiped away"... :roll: Geez, nice compassion for them. I guess Punta Gorda isn't a "community" in your eyes. :roll:

What a statement to make when describing what will become the United States' SECOND COSTLIEST NATURAL DISASTER of ALL TIME. $15 billion not historic enough for ya??

Charley is certainly historic, and will unfortunately be remembered
forever by the people of SW FL. :(

Sorry for my angry post, but just because it was Punta Gorda that was hit and not Miami doesn't make the people's lives that live there any less important...
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#10 Postby Lindaloo » Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:39 pm

Mobile Home communities have major damage down there and emergency vehicles are not able to get in to some of those areas. They are all in my thought and prayers! Anytime a storm of this magnitude rears it's ugly head is a disaster and I do not care about the historics or comparisons. The truth is in all of them someone lost their life and people are homeless.
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#11 Postby jlauderdal » Sun Aug 15, 2004 1:04 pm

MWatkins wrote:Well..I'm afraid there isnt much you can do about it considering that this forum thrives on OPINION. If I wanted to read what everyone else is thing I most definately would not be here...I'd be reading along at CNN...who reported that Charley made landfall way south of where it was expected...which is of course BS.

The good people here cannot be held accountable for the dumb decisions of others...including EMS officals or mobile home residents. In fact...if you were reading along here around noon on Friday...NOBODY was buying the cat 2 stuff we were being sold. NOBODY with a monitor turned on was buying the 360 movement we were being sold. You know what happened from there...I think.

In addition...the professional mets are clearly tagged. I don't think folks should be forced to post their resume/bio or a disclaimer...because...as I stated...this is a MESSAGE BOARD.

MW


MW is on message as usual. this is a essage board and we dont need resumes and all that..you think IF someone from NHC was on the board they would post it. JB is friendly with this board...anyone know his screen name here? like i said yesterday, there is plenty of brainpower here and between this board and NHC you have a leg up on anything the media will give you. take all the info in and formulate your own ideas. be glad we have this resource.
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#12 Postby Brent » Sun Aug 15, 2004 1:05 pm

Sheesh.

All the posts I have seen this morning on Earl's track are OPINIONS of where the storm might go.

I guarantee if you lived in Port Charlotte or Punta Gorda you wouldn't be saying your town wasn't "wiped away" :roll:
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#13 Postby rbaker » Sun Aug 15, 2004 1:49 pm

lets also not forget the nhc just started using the 5 day forecast 2 yrs ago I believe. Anyone in the field of weather will tell you going five days out, is a stretch, and that the models they are going by can be off by 600 miles north or south, which is huge area. What it does tell you is that they expect it in this general area by that time, which is why the cone gets wider and wider as the further you get out from the system. All the rest of the posts, are guesses beyond that time frame.
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Re: I'm tired of people's 120hr "definative" forec

#14 Postby SouthernWx » Sun Aug 15, 2004 2:52 pm

ericinmia wrote:First off sorry for the little "blow off" here, but i am tired of all the ignorance i saw on the west coast this week. I am also tired of the comparison's of Charley with great historic storms. Sure He was bad, but he did not WIPE entire neighborhoods COMPLETELY away, no; that is a much higher level of destruction, the finger of god.

Just remember many people around the world read this board. The specific comments you make without discolsures stating your lack of credentials such as a MET degree, or lengthy field experience can create flase impressions in others minds.



Hurricane Charley at landfall was the most intense hurricane of record to make landfall along the Florida west coast (at least back to 1848).....eyewall dropsondes measured SURFACE winds sustained at 130 kts (150 mph) near the south end of Charlotte Harbor. The KTBW nexrad doppler measured winds of over 190 mph as Charley made landfall....that's gusts equivalent to a strong F3 tornado.

The only reason the damage isn't the same as Andrew in south Dade?
Charlotte county is far less populated than south Dade. Charley also had a smaller radius of extreme winds than Andrew. I can assure you of this: IF this hurricane had made landfall farther north in highly populated Pinellas county or directly up Tampa Bay into the city of Tampa, it would have been IMO the most destructive and costly hurricane in history.

If you doubt the hurricane's intensity...check out the damage many miles inland. In southern Polk county I've seen F2 damage, indicative of 140+ mph gusts. The Bartow water tower was toppled, Arcadia looks like it was bombed.
This hurricane produced stronger sustained wind and peak gusts in Orlando than any hurricane of record....79 mph with a gust to 105 mph. That ranks right up there with the wind gusts Donna caused west of Orlando when it recurving over central Florida. Winds in the Daytona Beach area were just as strong as when Donna passed over in 1960 (and I think everyone will agree Donna was one of the "great hurricanes" of the 20th century).

PW
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#15 Postby SouthernWx » Sun Aug 15, 2004 2:57 pm

Oh yeah...about my credentials.....

I have none, and in fact never attended college. Funny thing though.....many folks who did attend college, including a few pro meteorologist have emailed me during the past several years seeking hurricane information from me....I wonder why? :D
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#16 Postby dhweather » Sun Aug 15, 2004 3:11 pm

MWatkins wrote:Well..I'm afraid there isnt much you can do about it considering that this forum thrives on OPINION. If I wanted to read what everyone else is thing I most definately would not be here...I'd be reading along at CNN...who reported that Charley made landfall way south of where it was expected...which is of course BS.

The good people here cannot be held accountable for the dumb decisions of others...including EMS officals or mobile home residents. In fact...if you were reading along here around noon on Friday...NOBODY was buying the cat 2 stuff we were being sold. NOBODY with a monitor turned on was buying the 360 movement we were being sold. You know what happened from there...I think.

In addition...the professional mets are clearly tagged. I don't think folks should be forced to post their resume/bio or a disclaimer...because...as I stated...this is a MESSAGE BOARD.

MW


This is a point for me, folks on tv say "it was supposed to hit Tampa", the NHC always says "DO NOT FOCUS ON ONE POINT" - There were hurricane warnings well in advance for the entire west coast of Florida.
Don't say you were not warned or you were misled. <p>
I've got family in Naples that pre-storm essentiall blew it off depiste being under a hurricane warning. I told them repeatedly that models are only so good, and they best be prepared. Now they have no electricity, little food, or anything else eat/drink, and they got off light. This morning, we talked with them, they will evacuate next time. DUH!
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#17 Postby crazycajuncane » Sun Aug 15, 2004 3:34 pm

So much talk was over Tampa, Flordia with Charley. It was hard for them to get off Tampa that those south of that probably never expected it. This should be a lesson to all.... INCLUDING FORECASTERS..... broaden the area of impact. Hurricanes ARE UNPREDICTABLE!

As far as the 100 plus hour forecasts, everyone it just throwing it up. The forecast will change several times. Today it's the Yucatan, tomorrow it's Texas, Sunday , Mobile is boarding up...... It's just too early to tell, but everyone should be ready.

Everyone wants answers, but you usually find out closer two-three days until impact.
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#18 Postby amawea » Sun Aug 15, 2004 4:26 pm

Well, as some others have said this is a message board and credentials are not neccessary to post ones opinion or amateur forecast/prediction. Everyone in a threat area should pay attention to official forecast and there's one independant I really pay attention to. JB(heh).
Anyway, I would suspect that 90% of the people that post here have a keen interest in all aspects of the weather, and wouldn't be here if they didn't. I also believe that most have studied meteorolgy enough to be more than your general person on the street with just an off the cuff opinion or guess. I for one have been a weather fanatic/nut since I was 10 years old and have read everything I can get my hands on in regards to all types of weather. Including understanding the models and analog years as compared to the present. It's my hobby that I at one time wished was my career. However, circumstances didn't let that turn out to be. I was thinking about how I didn't turn out to be a meteorologist when Charlie was coming in, and thought, man think of the hours those guys are having to put in at all hours, and can't be with their families even if they are in it's direct path. Excuse me! I want to be with my family come blizzard, tornadoes, or hurricanes. Did I say blizzard. My best times are getting to come home and watch it snow with my wife. I love it, and I love the weather. All kinds of weather.
Amawea
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