This is the kind of scene that keeps people from evacuating

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ZZ3Astro
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This is the kind of scene that keeps people from evacuating

#1 Postby ZZ3Astro » Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:31 am

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mobilebay
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#2 Postby mobilebay » Wed Aug 18, 2004 1:49 am

I agree. They will never be able to get this guy to evacuate again. When others see the video they or not going to want to leave either.
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#3 Postby storm4u » Wed Aug 18, 2004 4:16 am

thats messed up let him go back to his house i would have been there yelling at the cops just like the other people he pays the taxes they have no rite doing that to him!!!!
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#4 Postby alicia-w » Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:42 am

you can bet on one of two things here:

One is that we might not really have the entire story and two, if we do, you can be sure there will be some investigation and disciplinary action taken.

But you have to ask yourself these questions: Was the area safe for the man to return? Maybe there were power lines still down or large pieces of debris blocking the roads, etc. Maybe there were still recovery efforts going on.

The media sometimes does the public a disservice by inflaming a situation rather than doing a little extra legwork and telling the WHOLE story.

Just something to think about.
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#5 Postby goodlife » Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:43 am

Why couldn't the guy follow the rules??
I don't blame him for being frustrated but going around a police barricade is against the law!
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#6 Postby Stormchaser16 » Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:59 am

OK fine so he was TRYING to pass a police barricade, it did not appear in the video that he was getting violent, so why did they need to use a TASER?????

HAVE to disagree with goodlife on this one, there didnt appear to be any reason to use a taser
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#7 Postby Guest » Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:01 am

Has anyone seen a tape other than the Cops show that make them look good? :roll:

this event could have been avoided if the a hole listened and obeyed.
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#8 Postby AL Chili Pepper » Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:03 am

He was stupid for trying to go around the barricade. The police might not always be right, but you do what they say. If you don't like it, you can take action later.

As for people not leaving next time after seeing things like this, it's their own loss. As long as they know the risks, they can make their own decisions. Parents keeping their kids in evacuation zones is the only thing that ticks me off. Those kinds of people should be locked up.

Question: Would you rather be Taser-ed or beaten with a night stick? Personally, I'd take the shock.
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#9 Postby rbaker » Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:17 am

everyone is trying and desperate to get back to their homes, the police felt that it was too dangerous to go back. They are there to serve and PROTECT. If they let this guy go, then what is to prevent all of them to go, unless this guy was the president of the us. Just obey the law, nothing was going to change to wait another 24 hrs. What ever was left of his house had not changed in that time.
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#10 Postby goodlife » Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:55 am

Also the video (I have not watched it) is apprently the tail end of the incident. It does not show what led up to that or how long he'd been arguing with them, etc.
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#11 Postby clearwater » Wed Aug 18, 2004 10:26 am

There are no easy answers in this one.

People who can't get to their homes are living in shelters (if they're lucky), they're dealing with no power (or sparse generator power), no phones, and no water. Top that off with hellish heat and continuing rains.

Top that off with the fact that people are not just being prevented from "seeing" their homes, they are being prevented from protecting their homes against further damage. If a homeowner lost part of their roof in Charley and they didn't provide some coverage immediately (tarps, plastic) or move items to protected parts of the house, they likely suffered thousands of additional dollars in damage due to additional rains -- not to mention additional loss of family heirlooms, personal treasures.

And top that off with the fact that police officers also live in the communities they serve -- they are dealing with all the same conditions, frustrations, fears, and losses. And they don't make the decision as to whether people can re-enter an area, they just enforce the decisions.

My best guess is that no-one was on their best behavior that day and no one showed their best self.

But I think the real question should be, what are the conditions on the islands that have made them so unsafe that people can't return to their homes? As opposed to the inland homes? Have they truly been that unsafe or were they simply blocked because they could be (limited access)?

Did the government protect when no protection was needed or were there extenuating circumstances that made different rules for the islands a necessity?
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#12 Postby Johnny » Wed Aug 18, 2004 10:38 am

They showed a piece of this on TWC last night and yes, the guy was very angry and loud with the cops. He was starting to get pushy with them so yes, I agree totally with the actions the police took against him. He was out of line.
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#13 Postby MWatkins » Wed Aug 18, 2004 10:54 am

Also...this should be a stark reminder to anyone who wants to have a Cat4 or Cat5 come right over their community.

MW
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#14 Postby TLHR » Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:01 pm

While I do think the police may have over-reacted, the whole incident could have been avoided if the general public used some common sense.

1) After a hurricane, it is NOT SAFE to return immediately. Give EMS crews 24 to 36 hours to clean up and secure the area.

2) Always take MULTIPLE FORMS OF ID with you. Take your driver's license, a copy of your utility bill, and or phone bill. Something with your residential address on it.

3) Cops don't know who you are. Follow their orders evertime.
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#15 Postby Steve » Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:02 pm

IMHO, this is America. The Police are employees of the people and not the other way around. We don't live in a police state. Having said that, there are extenuating circumstances involved with the fact that the entire community is on edge so we have to understand it from both sides. Just the same, a taser is an extreme use of force. Someone should be fired. Heh. They'll probably get a medal though and if it goes to court, the jury will be convinced they were just doing their job (ala Rodney King, et al).

Troubling.

Steve
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#16 Postby clearwater » Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:21 pm

We were way past your suggested 24-36 hours time period when this incident took place. This morning, Augsut 18, is the first time many people were allowed back in. Additionally, I've seen no indication that the gentleman in question did not have identification.

the whole incident could have been avoided if the general public used some common sense.


I expect the government to be held to the same standards -- why were the islands off limits while inland homes were not? There may indeed have been a valid reason, but I have yet to see one reported.
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#17 Postby EmeraldCoast1 » Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:26 pm

Steve wrote:IMHO, this is America. The Police are employees of the people and not the other way around. We don't live in a police state. Having said that, there are extenuating circumstances involved with the fact that the entire community is on edge so we have to understand it from both sides. Just the same, a taser is an extreme use of force. Someone should be fired. Heh. They'll probably get a medal though and if it goes to court, the jury will be convinced they were just doing their job (ala Rodney King, et al).

Troubling.

Steve


Yeah, and what happens when they (law enforcement) let people back on an island with washed out roads, downed trees and power lines, and snakes, and somebody gets severly injured or killed? Now resources are taken away from shelters and such and used to take care of that problem. Then the homeowner's and media will scream and shout things like, "how could they let us go onto the island when it wasn't safe?" "The cops just let us back on the island when they knew it wasn't safe".

Island communities, especially, should have waivers as part of their emergency evacuation procedures. When you return to the point of entry to the island to return to your property after an evac., you must prove you live there (photo id with address), and sign a waiver stating that the county government will not be held responsible for any injuries or death that occurs during this time. If a homeowner wants to return to his/her property before it is completely safe, they should be allowed to as long as they agree to not hold the local government(s) liable for injuries.

:flag:
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#18 Postby Lindaloo » Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:27 pm

In tragedies such as these, natural gas lines could be exposed. If they are allowed back to their homes there could be an explosion and loss of life. THEN someone would want to sue. Until the area in question is safe police barricades are in place. The police are there to protect. I can understand the frustration, but when you try to defy the law in an unruly way expect this from police.

And Steve, this has nothing to do with Rodney King so there can't be any comparison.
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#19 Postby GalvestonDuck » Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:30 pm

I'd like to know why they only keep showing mobile homes that have been destroyed.

Wouldn't that give some people a false sense of security? "Well, only those mobile homes got blown to bits. I didn't see any regular houses get destroyed. I think I won't evacuate next time. My house is safe."

I think that's another scene that would keep people from evacuating.
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#20 Postby clearwater » Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:32 pm

Yeah, and what happens when they (law enforcement) let people back on an island with washed out roads, downed trees and power lines, and snakes


When I was in Wauchula this week, I saw ALL of the above (yes, even snakes). Yet I was not stopped. I'm not even a resident of the area, I was assisting an elderly relative who is a resident.

I think the island residents rightfully ask, "What makes our situation different?"

To date, the only feasible explanation I have heard as to why island residents were treated differently is because they could be.

I'm all ears for a better explanation.
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