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yoda
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#1761 Postby yoda » Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:46 am

ericinmia wrote:probabilites went up to double digits for miami as i thought...
not looking to good...

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/text/refresh/MI ... 0816.shtml?
-Eric


Nope they are not....

But also see here:
21 GMT 09/08/04 13.4N 67.7W 140 947 Category 4 Hurricane
03 GMT 09/09/04 13.6N 69.1W 145 938 Category 4 Hurricane
09 GMT 09/09/04 13.9N 70.0W 160 922 Category 5 Hurricane

This is interesting... there appears to be a turn starting here...
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#1762 Postby tronbunny » Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:46 am

ericinmia wrote:Stewart is also very known for using a great deal of synoptic reasoning in his discussions, and descion making. I can't wait for the discussion.

WE are lucky the storm attained Cat5 while he was on the desk. Avila might have pissed his pants, and claimed it was headind for the north pole... if that is what his "model" was telling him. lol sorry had to add that... i can't stand avila.
-Eric

FYI
TPC Staff:
National Hurricane Center
Hurricane Specialists

* Dr. Lixion Avila
* Dr. Jack Beven
* James L. Franklin
* Miles Lawrence
* Dr. Richard Pasch
* Stacy Stewart -- Warning Coordination Meteorologist (WCM)

Avila has the big ol' sheepskin.
And our pal Stewart could have a feminine first name.
;-)
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#1763 Postby Lockhart » Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:47 am

By asterisk, I mean "*". First SW to NE, then SE to NW, then N to S. :-(
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#1764 Postby ericinmia » Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:50 am

Damn... i am watching the ftp location like a hawk.. but have to run to the bathroom... damn body... lol
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#1765 Postby yoda » Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:50 am

ericinmia wrote:Damn... i am watching the ftp location like a hawk.. but have to run to the bathroom... damn body... lol


LOL.. I have got ya covered ERIC!! GO GO GO!!! :D :D
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#1766 Postby birdwomn » Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:52 am

ericinmia wrote:Stewart is also very known for using a great deal of synoptic reasoning in his discussions, and descion making. I can't wait for the discussion.

WE are lucky the storm attained Cat5 while he was on the desk. Avila might have pissed his pants, and claimed it was headind for the north pole... if that is what his "model" was telling him. lol sorry had to add that... i can't stand avila.


Eric -

Thanks for stating what others of us are thinking! :lol:
I've gotten to where I check to see who wrote the advisory or discussion before I read it (almost). Also thanks for posting all the good info in both this thread and the other.
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#1767 Postby yoda » Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:52 am

916 MB? :cry: :eek: :eek: :eek:

AHA!! LET US FEAST AND DISSECT THIS DISCUSSION!! :lol: :lol: :D

Hurricane Ivan Discussion Number 28


Statement as of 5:00 am EDT on September 09, 2004



Air Force recon this morning has found an intense Hurricane Ivan.
The central pressure of 922 mb has dropped 15 mb in the past 7
hours...while the 700 mb flight-level winds have increased to 154
kt...equal to 139 kt surface wind...to the north and northeast of
the center on two separate passes. In addition...and eyewall
dropsonde recorded a wind speed of 175 kt at about 630 ft above sea
level. Based on this information...Ivan is easily upgraded to a
140-kt category 5 hurricane. As I write...a new recon report
indicates an extrapolated pressure of 916 mb.

The initial motion is 290/13. Ivan has been slowly gaining latitude
over the past 24 hours...and the last two recon fix positions
suggest that Ivan may be moving at 295 degrees. Dropsonde data from
the 00z synoptic surveillance flights around Ivan has resulted in
tight agreement among all of the available NHC models through 60
hours...on Ivan moving over or at least very near Jamaica in 36-48
hours. After that...the models diverge considerably...although the
spread is much less than it has been over the previous 2-3 days.
Unfortunately...the model spread still brackets the Florida
Peninsula. The main difference between the models again remains in
how they handle the development and future track of a mid- to
upper-level low currently near 34n 48w. Water vapor winds suggest
that the upper-low is stronger than all of the models have been
forecasting. However...the model that initialized the low the best
at 00z was NOGAPS. This model has been very consistent...along with
the ECMWF model...on bringing Ivan across west-central Cuba and
then over or near the Florida Peninsula. The UKMET model remains
the westernmost outlier...while the GFS is still the easternmost
outlier. However...both models have been gradually shifting their
tracks toward Florida...and the latest GFDL run now takes Ivan
across Southeast Florida in 96-120 hours. Given the better
agreement among the models on this forecast cycle...the official
track is close to the previous forecast through 72 hours...and then
shifted slightly eastward at 96- and 120-hr.
The upper-level outflow pattern is impressive and well-established
...And if anything...will only get better for the next 72-96 hours.
Therefore...the future intensity will likely be modulated by inner-
core convective changes and land interaction since th water ahead of
Ivan is only forecast to get warmer...as warm as 30c south of Cuba
and over the Florida Straits.
Forecaster Stewart

forecast positions and Max winds

initial 09/0900z 13.9n 70.0w 140 kt
12hr VT 09/1800z 14.8n 72.0w 140 kt
24hr VT 10/0600z 16.2n 74.3w 135 kt
36hr VT 10/1800z 17.6n 76.4w 135 kt
48hr VT 11/0600z 19.1n 78.3w 125 kt
72hr VT 12/0600z 21.0n 80.2w 125 kt
96hr VT 13/0600z 24.0n 81.0w 115 kt
120hr VT 14/0600z 28.0n 81.0w 80 kt...inland over Florida
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5am disc.

#1768 Postby chris_fit » Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:53 am

Hurricane Ivan Discussion Number 28

Statement as of 5:00 am EDT on September 09, 2004


Air Force recon this morning has found an intense Hurricane Ivan.
The central pressure of 922 mb has dropped 15 mb in the past 7
hours...while the 700 mb flight-level winds have increased to 154
kt...equal to 139 kt surface wind...to the north and northeast of
the center on two separate passes. In addition...and eyewall
dropsonde recorded a wind speed of 175 kt at about 630 ft above sea
level. Based on this information...Ivan is easily upgraded to a
140-kt category 5 hurricane. As I write...a new recon report
indicates an extrapolated pressure of 916 mb.



The initial motion is 290/13. Ivan has been slowly gaining latitude
over the past 24 hours...and the last two recon fix positions
suggest that Ivan may be moving at 295 degrees. Dropsonde data from
the 00z synoptic surveillance flights around Ivan has resulted in
tight agreement among all of the available NHC models through 60
hours...on Ivan moving over or at least very near Jamaica in 36-48
hours. After that...the models diverge considerably...although the
spread is much less than it has been over the previous 2-3 days.
Unfortunately...the model spread still brackets the Florida
Peninsula.
The main difference between the models again remains in
how they handle the development and future track of a mid- to
upper-level low currently near 34n 48w. Water vapor winds suggest
that the upper-low is stronger than all of the models have been
forecasting. However...the model that initialized the low the best
at 00z was NOGAPS. This model has been very consistent...along with
the ECMWF model...on bringing Ivan across west-central Cuba and
then over or near the Florida Peninsula. The UKMET model remains
the westernmost outlier...while the GFS is still the easternmost
outlier. However...both models have been gradually shifting their
tracks toward Florida.
..and the latest GFDL run now takes Ivan
across Southeast Florida in 96-120 hours. Given the better
agreement among the models on this forecast cycle...the official
track is close to the previous forecast through 72 hours...and then
shifted slightly eastward at 96- and 120-hr.

The upper-level outflow pattern is impressive and well-established
...And if anything...will only get better for the next 72-96 hours.
Therefore...the future intensity will likely be modulated by inner-
core convective changes and land interaction since th water ahead of
Ivan is only forecast to get warmer...as warm as 30c south of Cuba
and over the Florida Straits.

Forecaster Stewart


forecast positions and Max winds


initial 09/0900z 13.9n 70.0w 140 kt
12hr VT 09/1800z 14.8n 72.0w 140 kt
24hr VT 10/0600z 16.2n 74.3w 135 kt
36hr VT 10/1800z 17.6n 76.4w 135 kt
48hr VT 11/0600z 19.1n 78.3w 125 kt
72hr VT 12/0600z 21.0n 80.2w 125 kt
96hr VT 13/0600z 24.0n 81.0w 115 kt
120hr VT 14/0600z 28.0n 81.0w 80 kt...inland over Florida
Last edited by chris_fit on Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Matthew5

#1769 Postby Matthew5 » Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:54 am

My god it has a exp of 916 millibars :eek:
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#1770 Postby yoda » Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:55 am

EXCELLENT DISCUSSION... well reasoned.. well explained.

also.. here is a better path chart from NHC..

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/ftp/graphics/AT ... 0833W5.gif
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#1771 Postby chris_fit » Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:55 am

We are doomed
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#1772 Postby Thunder44 » Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:56 am

916mb pressure!
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#1773 Postby yoda » Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:58 am

When Stewart said these two things in her Discussion:


The upper-level outflow pattern is impressive and well-established
...And if anything...will only get better for the next 72-96 hours.
Therefore...the future intensity will likely be modulated by inner-
core convective changes and land interaction since th water ahead of
Ivan is only forecast to get warmer...as warm as 30c south of Cuba
and over the Florida Straits.

AND

In addition...and eyewall
dropsonde recorded a wind speed of 175 kt at about 630 ft above sea
level. Based on this information...Ivan is easily upgraded to a
140-kt category 5 hurricane. As I write...a new recon report
indicates an extrapolated pressure of 916 mb.


It makes me want to do this: :crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: :crying: :crying: :18:
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#1774 Postby birdwomn » Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:00 am

chris_fit wrote:We are doomed


OUCH! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
I think we are gunna be making some plans...
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Matthew5

#1775 Postby Matthew5 » Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:00 am

This may very well be the big "one".
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#1776 Postby Bane » Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:00 am

916 MB...amazing.
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#1777 Postby tronbunny » Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:01 am

oh yay,
this time I get the NW quad...
and in the middle of the night again, I might add.

:-p
(note tone of sarcasm)
Last edited by tronbunny on Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#1778 Postby chris_fit » Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:01 am

Charley strike one
Frances strike two
Ivan strike three

Florida peninsula will be nailed from all 3 sides.

Wow.
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#1779 Postby ericinmia » Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:05 am

Here you can see the upper-level low on WV beginning to form.
It could weaken the mid-atlantic high, allowing Ivan to move more freely poleward.
That is the main reason the GFS tended a littel further west than the others. It predicted for the high to be reduced greatly.

http://orca.rsmas.miami.edu/wximages/jet/1_05/anis.html

-Eric

BTW:
He wrote a great discusion explaining what he sees as possibilities, and his reasoning for the forecast track change.
To bad by the time i awake tomorrow Avila will most likely have screwed things up again. :(

Edit:
Here is a little fun graphic to watch... who can argue with those stating the general track has not been wnw... :P
http://www.oceanweather.com/data/Caribb ... eloop.html
Last edited by ericinmia on Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#1780 Postby tronbunny » Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:05 am

Chris,
note that at least it will be 115kt for landfall, plus travel al the way up the spine (like these chills I feel) so..
We'll "only get 80kt winds"
yeah right, and I'll have some beachfront property in Kissimmee for you.

Sorry, but the late hour and the "asterisk" forecast has finally gotten to me.
(anyone else see a reverse "Catholic" sign of the cross?)
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