What can be expected at SW tip of Jamica?

[Anonymous]

So these poor folks are stuck on Jamaica with no flight out, and a powerful Category 4 or 5 hurricane tracking in such a way that Negril, where they are staying, will very likely get hit by the Right Front Quadrant of this dangerous 'cane.

Stay calm, use your head, go to an approved shelter (Jamaica has been through bad storms before) or head for the caves. Consider moving to another part of the island where the storm's force will be less severe.

And PRAY. Pray very hard. Pray for a miracle. Pray that the storm gets sheared, or veers north so that Jamaica gets the weaker part of the storm, because track is going to be everything.

Use your head, find a strong shelter, and pray really hard.

That's all I can say.

I'd have gotten out a week ago.

[flashflood1998]

c'mon folks... if they've been staying at SANDALS in negril, these two stranded tourists are not about to head on their own to inland areas on their or to any local caves. outside of the coastal resort towns, jamaica is quite dangerous, especially for those who are unfamiliar with where they are going.

for those who aren't familiar with the chain, SANDALS is an american all-inclusive resort and many guest rarely leave the resort grounds. with that said, it is also VERY expensive. i have been to this resort twice. my hope, while possibly naive, is that the resort is taking steps to provide adequate shelter to their guests and these two will be literally forced to vacate the premises with them if instructed to (ie - NOT STAYING IN THEIR ROOM). you can take a look at what theyre dealing with, structure-wise, by using this link...

http://www.sandals.com/main/negril/ne-home.cfm

my suggestion to them would be to demand and follow instructions from resort management, get to know their fellow guests, and ABSOLUTELY NOT GO OFF ON THEIR OWN TO LOCAL SHELTERS.

regardless if the original post is real or not, some of the suggestions on this thread are completely irresponsible. it's not necessary to post if you don't have a reasonable suggestion.

[anjou]

>The deadliest hurricane to hit the Caribbean in a decade is on course to slam into Jamaica today, where about 800 Britons were being evacuated.
Holidaymakers have been rushed from Jamaica to the Dominican Republic’s north coast in the hope they can escape from the storm, dubbed Ivan the Terrible.<
http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3477596

It's terrific if Sandals has also made adequate arrangements for its guests. However, I most certainly would not just simply trust my life to one hotel manager or division manager if it was not extraordinarily clear that an adequate plan had been arranged. It's irresponsible to assume that a Jamaica resort in the hours before a hurricane = Disneyland.

>outside of the coastal resort towns, jamaica is quite dangerous<

It can be. However in 150mph winds coastal resort towns are more dangerous.

[flashflood1998]

anjou, while i certainly agree that resort guest shouldn't just shut off their common sense and blindly follow management's evacuation plans, i think you fail to understand my point:

a number of tourists who chose the all-inclusive route when vacationing in the caribbean are doing so because they are unfamiliar with, or are choosing to avoid the real world beyond the gates of the resort. one day before landfall of a cat5 hurricane is not the right time to begin exploring rural jamaica alone.. or the caves, as you suggested earlier. i would have to guess that the management team at SANDALS wants to survive the storm as well, and considering most are locals, would probably know better how to survive.

i'm not interested in fighting with you, but your disneyland jab is rude and way off-base. yes, i was referring to your cave post when i dismissed what i described as "irresponsible" posts in this thread. however, my suggestion to demand instructions from management was not.

[anjou]

Please do not take my comment that a resort facing a major hurricane is not Disneyland as a personal jab. It is most certainly not rude. Nor is it off base. It's fine if people on the board have different opinions and it's fine for multiple opinions to actually be posted to the board. I can't be the arbiter of whether your opinion is reasonable and you can't be the arbiter of mine.

I happen to think that in a situation like this the Red Cross and local disaster officials, as well as inland shelters and potentially traditional natural shelters may be a reliable option in the event that a resort is not adequately protecting guests from imminent grave danger.... as I stated - clearly - already.

I do agree that most people who go to an all-inclusive resort are naturally going to be unfamiliar with the island. And there are dangers in just running around amok in Jamaica. I have no quarrel with you, but I do view the situation in terms of the potential need for individual preparedness differently.

[flashflood1998]

It's irresponsible to assume that a Jamaica resort in the hours before a hurricane = Disneyland.

oh.. this wasn't directed to me? well, it certainly shouldn't have been, considering i never came close to implying that their resort=disneyland.

listen, this isn't worth the effort, as we essentially feel the same way about the dilemma. it's a very scary situation to be in and the coast is not a safe place to stay. the only difference is that i believe they would be best following evacuation orders determined by resort management (most likely thru the red cross/disaster officials anyway) instead of preparing independently.

[anjou]

Flash, my comment was directed at the concept, not you personally. (And in any regard I can't see how that is any worse than what you said originally, about what was vs. wasn't unreasonable and about who should vs. shouldn't post.) Whatever.. and I thought you did bring up a good counterbalance point about being careful to not venture into dangerous territory willy-nilly (that's not what I intended in my posts).

>as we essentially feel the same way about the dilemma. it's a very scary situation to be in and the coast is not a safe place to stay<

This is where I'm in absolute agreement with you... I'm going off to bed now as it's late where I am (albeit even later where you are!) ... please accept apologies over any miscommunications - prayers going out to Jamaica. And would be glad to regard you as friend not foe in this and all future threads. Goodnight!

[flashflood1998]

absolutely, my apologies to you as well. this type of scenario really hit home, as my wife and i have been stranded in the caribbean during a TS that thankfully never reached us. anyway, have a good sleep, i'm sure we'll both be back here sooner than later!

[pr2000gt]

There is simply zero way I can comprehend the husband being so stupid. This hurricane WILL devastate Jamaica if it hits it directly, and there will be loss of life. Now is not the time to wag around your man card like a silly jerk! They need to get to an approved shelter, give you their contact information and stay PUT!

[cloud_galaxy]

The hurricane shelters in Jamaica are administrated by the Jamaican Red Cross.
In case the management of Sandals Negril hasn't done so already, I think this couple should call JRC ASAP to find out about the next shelter and how to get there.
And they should take along lots of drinkable water - always a problem with such situations in Jamaica.

My prayers go out to everybody in Jamaica and elsewhere in Ivan's way- may they all stay safe and sound!

How to contact JRC: http://www.jamaicaredcross.org/contactus.html

[alicia-w]

This resort is not your average Holiday Inn Express. The manager is not certainly not some person who received a hotel managment certificate through a correspondence course. This is a first rate resort and there is a word that weighs heavily on their minds (beyond the safety of their guests) and that's liability. They are going to do everything they can to insure their guests are taken care of. I'm sure that whatever corporation owns this resort hires folks to create/generate a disaster preparedness plan, especially since it's such a storm-vulnerable location. The "husband" in question may be an idiot, but I think that folks can rest assured that there is a fully trained and qualified staff that will be doing some thinking for him in this instance.

[anjou]

If anyone needs to keep up on Jamaica's official activities, here are two links:

disaster mgmt - http://www.odpem.org.jm/sitemap.htm

Jamaica information service - http://www.jis.gov.jm/

[Rob Beaux]

UPDATE:

The resort has told them to stay in their room and has not answered any questions about the shelters. Supposedly the hotel has reinforced glass and is made of brick. My wife and I are incredibly frustrated with the whole thing as the father of the cousin is not overly concerned and did not pass along any of the phone nubers or information from here. All we can do is hope for the best and hope that Sandals Resort actually knows what they are doing.


I will let you know if I hear anything else. Thanks to everyone for your thoughts and prayers on this

[m5ph4tb00t13]

if you are in a hotel im sure you will be safe

[chakalakasp]

Caves:

http://gocaribbean.about.com/cs/jamaica ... acaves.htm

http://www.jamaicancaves.org/main.htm

Why on earth would you encourage someone to go into an underground cave when a storm that was about to dump 10+ inches of rain in the mountains is coming through? Have you ever seen a flash flood? Go to a shelter, wherever that is. Skip the caves, for heaven's sake.

[calm like a bomb]

If it helps any,Sandles is one of the better constructed places they could have gone to.
I've been to Negril and most of the places will not survive this storm.
Pray for everyone there,except the looters that were already robbing storm workers.... unreal.

[anjou]

Caves:

http://gocaribbean.about.com/cs/jamaica ... acaves.htm

http://www.jamaicancaves.org/main.htm

Why on earth would you encourage someone to go into an underground cave when a storm that was about to dump 10+ inches of rain in the mountains is coming through? Have you ever seen a flash flood? Go to a shelter, wherever that is. Skip the caves, for heaven's sake.

Not 'underground' caves subject to flash flooding and mudslides. But protected upland caves away from any likely path of flooding or mudslides, yes... if there were no adequate otherwise available shelter.

At this point in the evening it's a little too late in the situation for anyone to be leaving wherever they are on Jamaica anyway.

Historically, caves have long been used have been used for storm protection in the Caribbean.

My initial post had links with info about the cave structure in Jamaica, and was simply to provide links discussing cave structure on that island, in response to this post by someone else (and several other cave posts by others):
>Cat 5 means caves and reinforced bunker time.<

Later I mentioned specifically that I was referring to caves sanctioned as safe in storms. The point, whether in a building or natural structure, is to be out of the path of water, mud and wind... and the latter is partly achieved by putting as much sheltered concrete or rock between you and the hurricane as possible.

[chakalakasp]

Caves:

http://gocaribbean.about.com/cs/jamaica ... acaves.htm

http://www.jamaicancaves.org/main.htm

Why on earth would you encourage someone to go into an underground cave when a storm that was about to dump 10+ inches of rain in the mountains is coming through? Have you ever seen a flash flood? Go to a shelter, wherever that is. Skip the caves, for heaven's sake.

Not 'underground' caves subject to flash flooding and mudslides. But protected upland caves away from any likely path of flooding or mudslides, yes... if there were no adequate otherwise available shelter.

At this point in the evening it's a little too late in the situation for anyone to be leaving wherever they are on Jamaica anyway.

Historically, caves have long been used have been used for storm protection in the Caribbean.

My initial post had links with info about the cave structure in Jamaica, and was simply to provide links discussing cave structure on that island, in response to this post by someone else (and several other cave posts by others):
>Cat 5 means caves and reinforced bunker time.<

Later I mentioned specifically that I was referring to caves sanctioned as safe in storms. The point, whether in a building or natural structure, is to be out of the path of water, mud and wind... and the latter is partly achieved by putting as much sheltered concrete or rock between you and the hurricane as possible.

Look, I don't want to sound mean, but for Christ sake -- I've got 100 to 1 that you have no knowledge of caving, canyoneering, or outdoors survival. Telling someone who's never seen a cave to go crawl in one right before a tropical rain event is DANGEROUSLY STUPID. I would emphasize that it is kind of you to wish to help these people, but telling them to do something that will get them killed is not helping. It would be best if you confined your advice to things that you actually have experience with. These are real lives, and bad advice in this case is worse than no advice.

FYI, one of the links you provided led to this page ( http://www.jamaicancaves.org/guidance_3.htm) about Jamaican caves, (feel free to read all of the other pages in the series) which lays out rather well why "finding a cave" in Jamaica during a hurricane is a terrible, stupid, suicidal idea.

[Rob Beaux]

JUSt heard from other family members that my wifes cousin and her husbadn are OK. They are pretty much stuck intheir room due to thte weather adn debris..( poor babys...your lucky you have a room)

They said somethign about a large retaining wall between them and the ocean whcih stop most of the waves and surge from actually gettig to the hotel. I am getting this 3rd hand so I dont have any idea as to the damage or what it was like there.
I can honestly say that they got real lucky with the path of this storm

Thanks again for you help and prayers. Those of you that PMed me thanks also. Those of you concerned that I would tel them to go find a cave...dont worry I didnt feel that was a wise idea and neglected to pass that on.

[ohiostorm]

Did you post this message in every sticky?