4000+ Air Force Students ordered to stay on base in Biloxi

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MBismyPlayground
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#41 Postby MBismyPlayground » Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:45 pm

senorpepr wrote:
MBismyPlayground wrote:


Normally they are in the school houses for shelter. I got off the phone with a co-worker who is there for training and she said the weather trainees are in Wolfe Hall (a large reenforced bldg) to ride out the storm.


That sounds much better. I know in NC they used ALL of the Physical Fitness Centers because of the reinforcement. For the most part, this might be the safest place to be because, as someone noted, these young men probably would not know exactly what to do in this type of circumstance, lack of transportation,( it was right on about how many troops can fit on a plane, not as many as one would think), the time it would take to transport all of the soldiers(look how long it took to deploy one 82nd ABN battallion, and they are "frequent" fliers on military aircraft).
This decision was probably thought out and those young men were placed in the safest area. Even though the post has been evacuated, it does not mean everyone left, alot are probably at shelters as well. They will be in my prayers. Image
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#42 Postby senorpepr » Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:47 pm

Psychonaut777 wrote:Interesting is an understatment.

Even so, the Airforce has thousands of planes all over the US it wouldn't have been very difficult to airlift them out. This is unneccesary and terrible.


However.... how many of those planes are able to transport that many people. Not very many, especially since a lot of our larger planes are currently overseas.
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#43 Postby Psychonaut777 » Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:47 pm

These are not the weather trainees, these are the other 4000+ students there. My brother is there for comp. programming. He said just now he's in a classroom 3 stories high.

They should have air lifted them all out yesterday. The air force has more than adequate resources and warning.
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#44 Postby Psychonaut777 » Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:48 pm

C-5A Cargo Planes can hold hundreds of people for a short hop to a nearby base can't they? They have tons of them lying around.
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#45 Postby Guest » Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:48 pm

Not all the students stay in those barracks. My cousin is in some apartments. He is in the Marines not the Air Force, but he is station there for his Met school. Maybe they relocated him to the barracks though. senorpepr has stayed in them and he/she makes it sound like they are going to be ok. I just hope they didn't tell my cousin and his family they couldn't leave.

Getting no answer on phone BTW.
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#46 Postby MBismyPlayground » Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:50 pm

Psychonaut777 wrote:These are not the weather trainees, these are the other 4000+ students there. My brother is there for comp. programming. He said just now he's in a classroom 3 stories high.

They should have air lifted them all out yesterday. The air force has more than adequate resources and warning.


Actually, my husband just told me he watched a news show, that was showing these men being moved into another building for their own safety. None of the guys looked too afraid or unhappy. There were many other troops already there.
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#47 Postby Psychonaut777 » Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:52 pm

Yeah I talked to my brother not half an hour ago. This is the building he is in now. He's pretty afriad and so are the others I can assure you. The building doens't seem like a shelter to him...
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#48 Postby MBismyPlayground » Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:52 pm

Psychonaut777 wrote:C-5A Cargo Planes can hold hundreds of people for a short hop to a nearby base can't they? They have tons of them lying around.


Those planes are not Equiped to transport troops or people like that. My husband is a certified load master and wants me to quote all of these specifics but I won't, but he says there is no way even back to yesterday to transport all of those people that quickly. Because if they are goign to transport them, they would have to transport ALL.
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#49 Postby Ixolib » Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:55 pm

Folks, folks, folks.... If it hasn't already been stated in this thread somewhere, the guys at KAFB are just fine.

I was an instructor there from 1984 until 1995, and I can assure you EVERYTHING is appropriate, safe, and humain. The structures on Keesler are mostly poured and pre-stressed concrete, and I can tell you that unless you ventured near an exit door, you probably wouldn't even know a storm was going on. They've done this forever. The 47 storm, Betsy, Camille, Fredrick, Elena, Georges, and quite a few other minor tropical storms. They have this down to a science. BTW - Camille's surge was 25+ and everyone sheltered at KAFT remained high and dry! Thank goodness, because all of those good people from the base certainly helped out a whole lot after that storm. I don't know how we would have recovered without them!!
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#50 Postby Psychonaut777 » Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:56 pm

Ok well I'll take his word for it. Atleast now I know that nothing could have been done in time. Thanks for that.

Will keep praying for them...
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#51 Postby senorpepr » Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:56 pm

Psychonaut777 wrote:These are not the weather trainees, these are the other 4000+ students there. My brother is there for comp. programming. He said just now he's in a classroom 3 stories high.


The classroom he is at is a safe place as well. I'm familiar with that particular hall. It is reinforced as well, although it may not seem that way from first looks.

Psychonaut777 wrote:They should have air lifted them all out yesterday. The air force has more than adequate resources and warning.


That would be impossible. Lets think about it. It would take 100s of the largest aircraft to haul everyone out. They don't have that amount of aircraft to do it in a timely fashion. Plus... where would you take them? You mentioned Lackland. Are you going to shove 4000 additional troops in the basic training dorms?! This is becoming hype. This isn't all that grave of a situation.

MBismyPlayground wrote:That sounds much better. I know in NC they used ALL of the Physical Fitness Centers because of the reinforcement. For the most part, this might be the safest place to be because, as someone noted, these young men probably would not know exactly what to do in this type of circumstance, lack of transportation,( it was right on about how many troops can fit on a plane, not as many as one would think), the time it would take to transport all of the soldiers(look how long it took to deploy one 82nd ABN battallion, and they are "frequent" fliers on military aircraft).
This decision was probably thought out and those young men were placed in the safest area. Even though the post has been evacuated, it does not mean everyone left, alot are probably at shelters as well. They will be in my prayers.


Exactly. They are in the best place considering all the factors. I remember this same type of hype when STY Paka hit Guam. They didn't evacuate people there at Andersen, and Paka was a lot stronger than Ivan ever was.
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#52 Postby Psychonaut777 » Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:57 pm

Thanks Ixolib for letting me know that!
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#53 Postby senorpepr » Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:59 pm

Ixolib wrote:Folks, folks, folks.... If it hasn't already been stated in this thread somewhere, the guys at KAFB are just fine.

I was an instructor there from 1984 until 1995, and I can assure you EVERYTHING is appropriate, safe, and humain. The structures on Keesler are mostly poured and pre-stressed concrete, and I can tell you that unless you ventured near an exit door, you probably wouldn't even know a storm was going on. They've done this forever. The 47 storm, Betsy, Camille, Fredrick, Elena, Georges, and quite a few other minor tropical storms. They have this down to a science. BTW - Camille's surge was 25+ and everyone sheltered at KAFT remained high and dry! Thank goodness, because all of those good people from the base certainly helped out a whole lot after that storm. I don't know how we would have recovered without them!!


Thank you. I've been waiting for someone who's been stationed at Keesler for a while to chime in. I wasn't exactly sure on the situation with Camille, but I thought they stayed during her landfall. If KAFB can handle a 195mph storm, they can handle Ivan.
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#54 Postby Psychonaut777 » Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:01 pm

Thanks everybody for telling me that. I've never been in a hurricane and neither has my bro or family and we didn't know the situation. That makes me feel a lot better. =)
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#55 Postby senorpepr » Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:04 pm

Psychonaut777 wrote:Thanks everybody for telling me that. I've never been in a hurricane and neither has my bro or family and we didn't know the situation. That makes me feel a lot better. =)


Keep us posted on how he is. I pray that everything will go just fine.

(On a sidenote, it will be interesting to see how the area looks after Ivan passes. I'll be returning to KAFB for yet another training class in November. It will be interesting to compare it to my other trips there.)
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#56 Postby Ixolib » Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:05 pm

Psychonaut777 wrote:Thanks Ixolib for letting me know that!


No problem... And by the way... If you go to MAPQUEST and look for Lafayette Street in Biloxi (zip 39530) you'll see that the front of my house is on Lafayette Street and my back yard is the fence line for Keesler! I'm actually looking over there right now and all is well. I'd imagine I'm physically the closest of anybody on this board to KAFB right now!! Isn't that interesting... It'll be fine.
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#57 Postby Psychonaut777 » Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:05 pm

You crazy bastard!! How does the Hurricane look from there??
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#58 Postby Ixolib » Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:12 pm

Psychonaut777 wrote:You crazy bastard!! How does the Hurricane look from there??


Right now - Winds NE, steady at about 25, gusts maybe 35. Light rain. Very humid. Cable, internet, electricity still fine. Based on experience, though, that will soon change.

And I'll assume the Crazy Bahstard was a term of affection??!! :wink:
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#59 Postby Mello1 » Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:22 pm

Ixolib wrote:Folks, folks, folks.... If it hasn't already been stated in this thread somewhere, the guys at KAFB are just fine.

I was an instructor there from 1984 until 1995, and I can assure you EVERYTHING is appropriate, safe, and humain. The structures on Keesler are mostly poured and pre-stressed concrete, and I can tell you that unless you ventured near an exit door, you probably wouldn't even know a storm was going on. They've done this forever. The 47 storm, Betsy, Camille, Fredrick, Elena, Georges, and quite a few other minor tropical storms. They have this down to a science. BTW - Camille's surge was 25+ and everyone sheltered at KAFT remained high and dry! Thank goodness, because all of those good people from the base certainly helped out a whole lot after that storm. I don't know how we would have recovered without them!!


I just talked to my co-worker whose brother works on the Recon missions out of there. She said that it's customary, but that if you stay, you will be locked down on the base until the all clear is given. Her brother had the option of leaving and he did, but he plans to ride out the storm in his unboarded house???? And works RECON! He also is from the St. Louis area. I told her to call him back and have a little talk with him; he's got small children.... geesh.
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#60 Postby SkywarnKR4YO » Wed Sep 15, 2004 7:46 pm

As an Air Force officer and recent AETC instructor (although not at Keesler), I can reassure everyone that Brig Gen Lord will not place the students under his command at risk. These are largely young enlisted folks not too long out of basic training. The logistics of moving and billeting these troops is not as simple as it seems (we just can't send them in ones and twos to commercial hotels all over the country, and if you've ever worked with new airmen, you'd understand why...), and as to the zillions of C-5s lying about, that's not the case either.

Barracks (we call 'em dorms) are not the "Gomer Pyle" structures you've seen in the movies, and are particularly built to last (they take hard use like college dorms and Congress doesn't give us the money to rebuild them every 5 years), and environmental stressors are taken into account when they are designed. The runway elevation (usually the lowest part of any AFB) is 34 feet.

You must also take into account what capabilities those airmen will provide post-strike. Runways will have to be cleared of debris -- a personnel-intensive job, Workers will be needed immediately to prepare warehouse facilities and to handle logistical efforts. Why? Because Keesler AFB will likely become much of the hub for relief efforts ovet the next week. Hurlburt and Eglin are, given their elevations and for other factors, not great places to set up an air hub in support of disaster relief.
Keesler is centrally located in the strike area, is not a primary combat capability base as are Tyndall, Eglin, and Hurlburt, and has a ready pool of troops that, to be honest with you, are operationally expendable. Before I get flamed for that line let me explain what I mean. The folks at Hurlburt, Eglin and Tyndall all provide immediate combat capability (fighters, special operations, and critical weapons test and development) to the United States. Why have we gotten all those aircraft and people out? Because we need to bring them back to clean up their bases and get back in the fight, doing their day-to-day jobs. The trainee airmen, however, are not yet qualified to do anything but march and learn, and to be honest with you, every classroom at Keesler could collapse and the immediate effect on the national security of the Unitted States would be exactly zero. In other words, we need the pilots and the trained maintainers to reconstitute their bases and get back on the job, not manhandle relief supplies. The young airmen and officers who are not yet fully trained, however, provide a manpower pool that is capable of making the massive logistics of a relief effort work. A brand-new lieutenant may not have yet have the technical skills to succeed in his Air Force specialty, but he does have the leadership skills to organize and supervise a unit of troops stevedoring airlifted relief materiel and building tent cities and temporary housing for displaced persons after the storm.
Yes, the National Guard will have the lead, but their homes will be gone and their families in trouble, too. So yes, the trainees are operationally expendable--we can sacrifice some training time for a greater need.

These airmen will be safe, and these young men and women, you will see, are going to do their nation some great service in the upcoming days. The oath that they took (for many, their first true, voluntary, legally binding committment as an adult citizen of the Republic) stated their willingness to defend the Constitution of US (and the people, who are the Constitution, after all) against all enemies, foreign and domestic. This hurricane, in a way, is an enemy of the people. When this is all over, we're going to be proud of these airmen and be very glad that they were able to shelter in place, weather the storm, then go out and help their fellow citizens.

My guess is that all this factored into Brig Gen Lord's decision. Give those of us in military leadership positions some credit. We are sometimes portrayed in movies as power-hungry bumbling idiots who like to snap orders at people for no earthly reason. We're decently bright, and believe it or not, we really do care about our troops. The general's decision, I guarantee you, was taken with a lot of deliberation and consultation, and oh by the way, the USAF is one of the nation's leading employers of professional mets, and we listen to them! The hangars may go down (which is why we have to evac the aircraft, for which you as a taxpayer should be thankful--I pay taxes too and I know I'm glad they flew out!) cause they just aren't inherently robust, but the dorms/shelters will be just fine.

Long post, but the points needed to be made. We'll give our lives in combat to protect you from those who would do us harm, but we'll also be there when things are so bad your communities just can't cope, 'cause we live in your towns, too, if only for a short time, and because patriotism to us isn't just saluting the flag, it's taking care of those who live under it as well.
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