weird real estate law or insurance question

[cancunkid]

Okay I just went to http://www.al.com and looked at some photos of the far west end of Dauphin Island. Since the island is now multiple little islands on the far end past the houses and so many beach front homes were lost I have to ask what happens if your property is underwater? Are you just screwed? Does insurance cover loss of actual land? If you look at past photos of DI obviously the beach front homes keep getting closer and closer to the edge as more and more beach is lost. Most homeowners who lost houses say they will rebuild but I have to wonder is there such thing as a losing beach? In 25 years will the third tier homes be beachfront? Anyone have any long term barrier island experience? I was on DI before Camille when I was nine and it seemed a long way to the beach but when I look at the rental companies photos of some of the houses they seem to sit all but in the water during calm times. Yet more than 20 people stayed on the island during Ivan Anyone??? Anything? Any thoughts?

[tronbunny]

Yes, one can lose land, eg: sinkholes in FL.
But usually homeowners' insurance is only for homes..
Pretty much, if it's gone, it's gone.

There have been some cases where the gov't has given compensation to landowners displaced by flood plains.. (eg:baytown TX?)

[beachbummer]

We have two homes (at least) at the east end of our beach that are about to be wiped out due to beach erosion. The town/state is doing nothing...(other areas of beach to be renourished, but not where these homes are)

I was told by a realtor that the property owner still owns the
"spot" where the house is....if mother nature decides to rearrange it and then someday put it back...technically its still their land. The homeowner is hoping it happens before his insurance policy on the dwelling and contents comes up for renewal as it could be a bit of a problem getting a carrier to touch this with the Atlantic splashing your steps daily.

[KeyLargoDave]

I think this applies: In the state of Florida, all lands below MLW (mean low water -- the basic low-tide mark) are considered state-owned "submerged" lands. Some hold actual title to submerged land adjoining their upland property, from before the state changed submerged-land laws. Residents and businesses like marinas may hold leases to use submerged land, so a dock can exist on "state property."

Not a lawyer or real-estate expert, so I don't know what happens if your land changes from dry to submerged. I think you would have a hard time getting a permit to fill or otherwise change it back to dry, buildable land.

[cancunkid]

Thanks for all the input. It has just been making me crazy! I fear Dauphin Island isn't going to be building back naturally anytime soon. The loss of Sand Island where the lighthouse is pretty much wiped out their barrier island.

I guess if I were to buy I would buy at a very high point on the island. The have times where water is over the main road on the west end with high tides and strong....not stormy southern winds according to photos I found.

It did make me think of the stilt homes of Biscanyne Bay. Of course those were never built on land to start with.

[charleston_hugo_veteran]

There was a special here on my local news about Insurances.

I do know that flood insurance and hurricane insurance are different things! Which I think is ridiculous!! I mean you get flooded most of the time when a hurricane comes so only 1 should apply!

[Agua]

The question will be governed by Alabama law. I can say that Mississippi law is similar to that which Key Largo Dave outlined and is likely the same in Alabama as in Florida and Mississippi.

The rule here is that land below the ebb and flow of mean high tide belongs to the state. Landowners adjacent to that point can both gain and lose land by the *natural* action of the waters (avultion is the loss of land due to water action; accretion is the gain of land due to water action).

A typical homeowner's policy covers only loss to structures / contents upon property, not the land itself. Of course, for the right price, you can find a group of underwriters to insure anything.

[Edited to correct the term "avultion" from the improper term which I originally used, "deriliction"]

[stormie_skies]

I dont remember if this is a state or national thing....but here in Texas, no building is permitted from the grassline down to the water....I believe that area is considered public property. If you purchase a home within a coastal flood plain you are required to sign a disclosure before closing acknowledging that if at some point your land, through beach erosion, becomes part of the beach or is underwater, you must cede the right to that land to the government. There is no government compensation - thats just the risk you take living close to the water.

As far as insurance coverage goes, Im sure that all depends on what kind of coverage one has....

[ColdWaterConch]

1. You can't own what does not exist.

2. You can't own submerged land...you can only lease it from the state.

3. MHWL is the general rule for ownership limits.

4. The purpose of these barrier islands is to take the brunt of storms...they were put there by nature to do so...they are supposed to erode and form with the passing of storms. IMHO, people that build on these islands do so at their own risk, and should not be permitted to rebuild with tax dollars after this type of an event.

5. A flood is defined as "rising water", so that is why it is different than windstorm insurance. And yes, I am a lawyer for various insurance companies.

[cancunkid]

I agree ColdWaterConch that no one should build on barrier islands. I just know people do and it is a national disaster over and over. The fact that people are rebuilding on thier lots on DI amazes me. I used to go to the island as a child and didn't return for about 25 years and the difference in the width of the island can not just be those differences in child to adult eyes.

I thank everyone for explaining that you can not own land that is below tide. Honestly I think perhaps some of the houses on DI were already lower than high tide before Ivan. I swear there used to be dunes on the island when I was a kid but there sure isn't any to the west.

Once again thanks everyone for helping me out on this question. Hey I live in the Ozarks what do I know of tides?