They need to change the building codes in FL

[inotherwords]

It would be interesting to convert a damaged neighborhood into an experimental dome community. Of course, this would probably not be struck for another 200 years...

I think it would be interesting if an enterprising developer built a neighborhood of attractive hurricane-resistant dome homes. I was interested in the old Bucky Fuller-style dome houses in the 70s as a possible vacation home structure. The houses weren't all that attractive and look awfully dated now (sort of like Earth shoes..lol) but they did have a lot of benefits.

Here's a site with some pictures of dome homes. The one at the bottom is in FL. Wonder how it held up?

http://www.insite.com.br/rodrigo/bucky/house.html

Here's some more info on dome homes:

http://www.bfi.org/domes/makers.htm#hotlines

[greeng13]

we can argue about hurricane code houses..but i have one question...after the great mississippi river flood in '93 (i think it was) were there any changes to the codes in the flood plain?--just wondering--i think hurricane codes should be strict and agree with most of what everyone is saying

to some extent i agree with california's lead on codes...i.e. environmental pollutants, hazardous chemicals, etc. and earthquake codes (but are they as strict as those in let's say japan? where a higher concentration of people live in about the same area as the state of california also being subject to earthquakes and hurricanes/typhoons)

i do not claim to know the building codes that japan adheres to but i would wager they are well thought out and strictly followed...

if anyone out there could answer these 2 questions i'd appreciate it

[gailstorm]

I think that soon insurance companies will refuse to insure mobile homes in Florida. I don't think it's possible to make them hurricane resistant and still be a mobile home. My husband and I are getting ready to build a home in Florida in the next couple of months. Believe me, I'm glad we're building now and not 6 months ago. I'm doing as much research as I can on ways to make the house plan I have picked out more storm proof. If anyone knows of an architect who specializes in 'cane resistant design, I'd like to know about it. I found this website with a lot of interesting products for storm proofing homes. Has anybody used any of these products? http://www.hurricaneproducts.com/

The hurricane screens are particularly interesting as they seem to be some kind of fabric, they are semi-transparent and yet they meet Miami-Dade codes for wind, water and projectile resistance.

[greeng13]

I think that soon insurance companies will refuse to insure mobile homes in Florida. I don't think it's possible to make them hurricane resistant and still be a mobile home. My husband and I are getting ready to build a home in Florida in the next couple of months. Believe me, I'm glad we're building now and not 6 months ago. I'm doing as much research as I can on ways to make the house plan I have picked out more storm proof. If anyone knows of an architect who specializes in 'cane resistant design, I'd like to know about it. I found this website with a lot of interesting products for storm proofing homes. Has anybody used any of these products? http://www.hurricaneproducts.com/

The hurricane screens are particularly interesting as they seem to be some kind of fabric, they are semi-transparent and yet they meet Miami-Dade codes for wind, water and projectile resistance.

i agree with you gailstorm about the mobile home issue...i too do not believe there is anyway to make them hurricane resistant unless they become "mobile" prior to a strike from a hurricane..

as for your question there is a "hurricane proof" house here on sullivan's island (near the charleston area) that the son (an architect) designed and had built for his parents after the original was destroyed by hugo..unfortunately i cannot remember the link for it---let me search the message board database and i'll get back unless someone here knows it offhand

*after edit*
i found it!!! this might show up:

on Sullivan's Island that is supposed to be hurricane proof and looks like an igloo....here are some websites I found on it:

http://www.abcnews4.com/news/stories/0904/170468.html

http://www.zwire.com/site/myzwire.cfm?B ... =461&rfi=9

[KeyLargoDave]

Gailstorm -- As for finding an architect that designs hurricane resitant homes....you need an engineer in addition to an architect.

Not dissing architects, but their job is the layout, style, aesthetics, floorplan, siting, almost everything about the design of a house EXCEPT specifying the materials and construction methods to meet specified loads and such. If you're doing a truly custom home, I'm sure the plans will have to be signed off by an engineer -- that's the person you really want to be sure is aware of hurricanes and ensuring a home is designed to survive them.

[greeng13]

Gailstorm -- As for finding an architect that designs hurricane resitant homes....you need an engineer in addition to an architect.

Not dissing architects, but their job is the layout, style, aesthetics, floorplan, siting, almost everything about the design of a house EXCEPT specifying the materials and construction methods to meet specified loads and such. If you're doing a truly custom home, I'm sure the plans will have to be signed off by an engineer -- that's the person you really want to be sure is aware of hurricanes and ensuring a home is designed to survive them.

that's a really good point dave...definitly a structural engineer of some sort

[Innotech]

dome homes are awesome. Iva always wanted one.

[borderPatrol2329]

Engineering and design challenges can be overcome.

This is somewhat technical, and will probably bore most of you to tears.

I designed some entry doors for the Island of Nevis for some people. Their house was re-inforced poured concrete with a heavy beam roof construction, but the doors were of typical lightweight residential construction. The doors faced the beach, and were only a few feet above sea level. The owner wanted the doors (three pairs) to have a large vision lite in each leaf, and have the doors swing in 180 degrees to have a complete open, unobstructed breezeway.

I selected a heavy walled Kawneer 451 Tri-Fab mullion section in black hardcolor anodized. I included internal steel re-inforcing for added strength. These sections would be used for the jambs and head. They would be pre-drilled at 16" on center. The anchors would be 1/2" x 4" stainless steel lag bolts in lead shields. After the frame was anchored an extruded pocket filler would be locked into place. The framing would be sealed with low expanding polyurethane foam insulated and sealed with Dow Corning 995 high strength silicone sealant. This sealant is normally used in 4 side structural glazing and has exceptional adhesive and cohesive capabilities. It is also impervious to salt and UV.

The doors were to be Kawneer wide stile 500 doors. These doors had 5" stiles, a 5" head, and a 12" bottom rail. all sections would be re-inforced with a polycarbonate (Lexan) Z profile and filled with low expanding polyurethane insulation. This was used in place of steel due to weight considerations. The hinging was to be Roton stainless steel full morticed continuous hinging. The inactive leaf would have an extruded pemko astragal with dual weatherstripping. A smaller Kawneer low profile astragal would be applied to the interior of the active leaf. In addition to the standard flush bolts in the leading edge stile of the inactive leaf, each leaf would have a pair of interior morticed flushbolts. The active leaf would have a Goal (West German) Stainless passage set with solid brass latchlock and dead bolt. In addition there would be two Adams-Rite MS 1851 dealocks, one mounted 18" from the top, and on mounted 18' from the bottom. A Pemko weatherstripped dorr cap would be installed to the top of the door, and an aluminum door bottom shoe would also be applied. A Kawneer two piece sweep would installed to both the top and the botom of the door on the inside.

The threshold would be a solid aluminum step type with a silicone bulb rubber weatherseal. A subsill would be installed before the threshold, and bedded with a butyl sealand. the perimeter would then be sealed with Dow Corning 995 silicone. An extruded drip edge water deflector would be applied to the extior of the bottom rail.

There would be two door stops. Both would be two piece extruded aluminum. The first would be a magnetic type weatherstrip, and the second would have a silicone bulb rubber seal.

The glass would be a special laminaterd safety glass comprised of an exterior lite of 1/2" heat strengthened glass on an interior lite of 3/8" heat strengthened glass with an .090 interlayer of PVB. The glass would be set into Dow corning 995 sealant and the glazing stops would be locked with stailess steel pop-rivets.

This project was a go, but was killed by the Government (I believe Antigua) who demanded ridiculous import duties, and insisted only local labour be used. The local labour had neither the skills, nor the work ethic to take on such a project.

[wayoutfront]

Insurance companies premiums will go up because roofers and tree removal folks are pricing over 250% of normal rates .

Roofers tell the homeowners that it is the price of materials thathave caused the price increase, but if you go to Lowes or Home depot the material price is the same as it was before Charlie. Some wholesalers have raised rates by 3 % for the higher cost of fuel.

also roofers are telling insureds that they will price their deductible into the roofing pricing then give them a rebate after the roof has been paid for.

so their ya go.... Price gouging running rampant.
and everyone looks at the insurance company as homeowner welfare.

[wayoutfront]

I agree with the poster that said no home can withsand the a direct hit from a cat 3 or better.....

where i have seen the most serious damage outside of the high impact areas, is where homeowners perform little or no maitenance, They NEVER trim any dead or danagerous trees, do not properly landscape their yards. Most houses have not had their windows reglazed or recaulked in years...and the list goes on.

[yzerfan]

Insurance companies premiums will go up because roofers and tree removal folks are pricing over 250% of normal rates .

Maybe in NC, but the penalties (money and jail) for price gouging in Florida are severe enough that most contractors wouldn't risk the penalties for a couple extra bucks. We ended up having a properly licensed and insured crew from the Tampa deal with our sandy pine problem (one landed on the roof of the garage, a bunch more were dangerously leaning) and they were maybe 10% more than non-storm prices. I figure the extra we paid covers the cost of moving the crew north for a couple days.

[inotherwords]

I think that soon insurance companies will refuse to insure mobile homes in Florida

Actually, I was pretty suprised to learn that the new manufactured homes by Palm Harbor held up amazingly well in Charley down here in the Punta/Port C areas. I can't speak for the rest of the country, but I'm renting to a couple who lost everything in Punta Gorda in a MH built in 1980. They are rebuilding a Palm Harbor home. I would never live in a MH myself, as I think they're tacky as hell, but after they told me this I did a little reading and in fact was surprised to learn that these new buildings are holding up very well in these storms. I am not sure why people shouldn't be able to insure these, if in fact the homes are holding up as well as they say they are.

Of course FL mobile home parks are filled with older MHs. I live near a lot of parks, there's one in Venice that wins all kinds of awards, has two clubhouses and two small lakes on the property. Every place is immaculately landscaped, etc. I'm seeing a lot more of the palm harbor manufactured homes going in here that don't even look like MHs, so maybe it's a matter of time when the old ones are phased out and better constructed ones are all that's left.

http://www.palmharborhomes.com/our_home ... /index.asp

On a separate note, I disagree that buildings can't withstand Cat 3 storm direct hits. Some do. But direct hits by 4 and 5 are a different story. I do believe they can be engineered to keep damage to a minimum, though.

[Sanibel]

A heavy wood door with crossbar would probably work like in the old days...

[Sean in New Orleans]

I don't believe mobile homes should be allowed in Florida. Another form of affordable housing needs to be offered. If someone wants to live in a mobile home in Florida it should not be insured, IMO. I know it sounds cold, but, everybody else has to pay higher insurance costs because whenever a hurricane comes you can almost guarantee that almost all mobile homes will be destroyed in its' path. In this great country of ours, it seems that we could come up with some type of affordable living for everyone and it doesn't have to be an apartment...and it shouldn't be a mobile home in Florida.

[gatorbabe79]

Price gouging is being policed very seriously here. I think the fine is around $5000 per incident. I read about some people doing it after Charley, but none lately, at least that's what's being reported.

[frankthetank]

I know locally affordable housing--under 100K is called GHETTO...so i can only imagine what you would get in Florida...MH's shouldn't be there, but neither should those big fancy homes right along the beaches...if people want insurance on places like these, let them pay through the nose...maybe they do, i don't know?? anyone

[ThunderSnow1]

No need for more governmental regulation, simple as that. People choose to live they way they want.

[wayoutfront]

Maybe in NC, but the penalties (money and jail) for price gouging in Florida are severe enough that most contractors wouldn't risk the penalties for a couple extra buck

WANNA BET

ALL I KNOW IS I HAVE BEEN ADJUSTING DOWN HERE SINCE 08/14 IN LAKELAND , ORLANDO TO DAYTONA TO WEST PALM AND ALL AREAS IN BETWEEN....

SO ITS NOT A NC ISSUE THAT I KNOW OF...SINCE I HAVEN'T BEEN HOME IN QUITE AWHILE. ANYONE ONE WANNA PAY 284.00 A SQ WHEN 8/13 IT WAS 125.00?



I SEE THESE ESTIMATES EVERYDAY, I ACTAUALLY HAD ONE CALL AND SAID HE WAS TAKING HIS 267.00 PER SQUARE PRICE BACK FOR AN INSURED SINCED HE WANTED TO SEE WHAT RATES WOULD BE THIS WEEK AFTER JEAN.

OR HOW ABOUT THE CONTRACTOR THAT CHARGED AN INSURED 38 HOURS AT 69.00 AND HOUR TO REPLACE 11 SHINGLES AND 9 4x8 FIBERGLAS CORRUGATED PANELS.. ON A SMALL GREENHOUSE, OH YEAH THAT WAS JUST ONSITE LABOR THAT DIDN'T INCLUDE OVER 500.00 FOR MATERIALS.

AND THIS IS A LOCAL CONTRACTOR ...ALL OF EM ARE,
AND THESE ARE JUST FROM TODAYS FILES 3 OUT OF 6 WERE BLATANT GOUGING.

[Tracie]

I have a 2 yr old CSB home in Orlando. We -thought- we had no damage to the house itself until we moved some furniture around this Sunday to steam clean... It appears that on the wall that faced the brunt of Charley and Jeanne, a lot of water seeped in through the block walls, and did some damage to the carpet in every room on that side of the house. No wall damage, just wet carpet. If we had noted the problem earlier, we wouldn't have to be replacing that carpet.. No wall/ceiling damage, just wet floors.

We wondered if we had a structural problem, but the inspector said that it is a very common problem right now. Concrete is porous, and if enough water is forced at it for long enough, it will get through. Just a warning to all of you with newer building codes to check that carpet on the exterior facing walls that received a lot of wind!

[jdray]

I know locally affordable housing--under 100K is called GHETTO...so i can only imagine what you would get in Florida...MH's shouldn't be there, but neither should those big fancy homes right along the beaches...if people want insurance on places like these, let them pay through the nose...maybe they do, i don't know?? anyone

Under 100K in Florida means a decent starter home in most of the metro areas. Some of the smaller city areas, 100K can get a halfway decent place.