Gulf Power's Wind Gauge in Ivan.........

[wxman57]

As I measure it on Streets & Trips, I get about 25 miles from west Pensacola to Gulf Shores, AL where the center hit. Satellite indicated that Ivan was weakening as it made landfall, particularly in the northwestern quadrant. Looked like the eastern eyewall passed west of Pensacola, but I don't have the radar imagery right now to examine. Ivan was probably a Cat 3 at landfall, but it had only a small area of Cat 3 winds east of the center. North, northwest, and west of the center there were hardly any hurricane-force winds.

[Aslkahuna]

Actually, gusts to 140 would occur with 115 mph winds overwater and around 90-100 mph winds overland. So again we come down to high end Cat 2 to low Cat 3.

Steve

[Steve Cosby]

I just got back from Gulf Shores on business. Want proof of the power of Ivan? See it first hand - even this far from the date of the landfall. I can't even begin to adequately describe what I saw. Here's a few anecdotal things I noticed:

I turned west on 182 from 59 and drove down to a condominium we stayed at several years ago. There was a guy walking under this condominium ducking his head. I know from having been there before that there was a good 3 or 4 feet above my Suburban so say 8-9 feet clearance before the storm. Now, it is 5 feet.

On Fort Morgan Road (Highway 180), this whole area seems to have been wiped clean or made any structures along there uninhabitable. The piles of trash were essentially everything. I saw appliances, clothes, sofas, everything. It was amazing.

I had to go to Bay Minette also (about 45 miles north). The Burger King sign was blown out, roof shingles were missing, and there were piles of trees and tree branches everywhere. Let me repeat that: 45 miles.

For that matter, Daphne, at I-10 on the east side of the Bay, had no McDonald's sign either (among numerous other things).

Some of the back areas, particuarly east of Highway 59, still don't have power. I was dealing with apartment complexes and I found two relatively new ones that had been cleared of occupants for repairs. One was at Foley 10 miles from the beach.

One thing that was kinda strange was in stands of pine trees (predominately). Say there were 50 trees in there. Only about 10 would be broken off and they were broken off about 8-10 feet off the ground. I got the impression they were all broken off to the west in this area also.

Amazing deal.

[alicia-w]

Thank you! Those of us who live in this area have been telling folks this for weeks! You can make all the suppositions you want based on what should have happened and the data available, but seeing is believing.

[Brent]

I can't see Ivan as a Cat 5. A very weak Cat 4? Maybe.... but most likely a strong Cat 3.

I went through Opal which was reported as a cat.3 and Ivan was Much worse. So much so, that Ivan scared me whereas Opal didn't!

Ivan's winds blew our wall in and it is believed that the studs or whatever are broke. In fact, it knocked a picture off the wall and broke the glass.
It also broke the front door but it withstood the terrible winds.

I believe that Ivan was a cat. 4!!

Pensacola didn't recieve anything near Cat 3 winds in Opal though.

I think it was a strong 3 with the surge defintely Cat 4.

[Anonymous]

I have embossed this image of Ivan at landfall. Notice the strong eyewall. No way a BORDERLINE 2/3:

[pcola girl]

As Alicia-w said, "seeing is believing". Also, experiencing is believing. I live on the west side of Pensacola and there no doubt in my mind that we experienced the entire east eyewall as it moved northward inland. I am a Pensacola native and have never seen such widespread devastating damage so far inland and over such a wide area. Every school in our county (over 70 facilities) received at least moderate to severe damage. That should tell you something. No way this was a "cat2/weak 3".

[Anonymous]

I know. The northern eyewall made landfall as a category 4. The eye crossed the coast as a strong category 3.

[Derek Ortt]

Floyd,

I am not sure there is a PC way of saying this, but you dont have a clue in the world regarding the intensity of this.

1. There was no strong eye wall at landfall. The eye had unraveled about 2-3 hours prior

2. The hurricane had long weakened below cat 4 when the eye wall moved onshore. The advisory intensity means jack, it is an estimate based upon data that has not been properly analyzed.

3. Pensacola had not seen cat 2 winds since 1926, so how would anyone know just how bad sustained cat 2 winds in the city are. Most were not born or living in the city during the 1926 hurricane (same one that devastated Miami). Much of the WIND damage appears similar to that of Fran in Wilmington. A strong 3 or 4 would do a lot more than blow out walls.

What is really irking me is the level of complaciency after Ivan. Just like downtown Charleston thinks they went through a cat 4 in Hugo (when they got a strong 2), Pensacola thinks they went through a 4, when they also got a 2 (any cat 3 winds were likely in extreme western Florida or Alabama). People are going to make the mistake the next time a 3 comes, thinking they can survive that, only to find out that if it makes a direct hit on the city, it is going to be 10 times worse than Ivan

[Anonymous]

Winds were probably 120-130 mph!!!! THAT IS A STRONG CATEGORY 3 HURRICANE!

[Derek Ortt]

120 is NOT a strong 3.

Wind data shows that winds were between 105-120 m.p.h., a little less than those in Hurricane Jeanne Deal with reality, not fantasyland

[Anonymous]

No need for insults, in fact the way you are talking got me suspended. But, I consider 115 mph a weak category 3, and 130 mph strong category 3. 120-125 mph...ok...a MODEST category 3.

[pcola girl]

With all due respect Mr. Ortt, I haven't heard or read of the general consensus of Pensacolians being that we went through a category 4 hurricane. Actually, I haven't seen or heard any information that we "survived a cat 4" or something similar. Trust me, people were scared and won't forget what we did go through. It will be remembered when our turn comes again in the future.

[HurricaneBill]

Derek, I respect you and I agree with you on many things. I like you. However, I'm going to have to disagree with you here on Ivan being a Category 2/3.

You have a point on the winds probably being Category 2/3.

However, I think more than just windspeeds need to be taken into consideration. I think this is what the NHC sometimes does when they rate New England storms as major.

Ivan had a Category 4 storm surge and a Category 4 pressure. But the winds did not support Category 4. Even if winds were only Category 2, don't you think it might make a little sense to called Ivan a Category 3 as kind of an average.

Yes, I know that winds are the main judge on the Saffir-Simpson scale. But not all hurricanes are created equal.

Why not simply list Ivan as this:

Hurricane Ivan Category 3*

*justified by pressure and storm surge
or
*winds did not support Category 4 (this is what they did with Opal)

The reason Gloria is listed as a Category 3 is because while sustained winds in NC were 105 mph, the pressure was 942 mb. Plus, Gloria's forward speed was factored in. The pressure was still low at Long Island and yes, Gloria is listed as Category 3, BUT it is said Gloria was a Category 3 at landfall on the Long Island coast ONLY and BRIEFLY.

I know rules are rules, but there are always exceptions to the rules.

[Scorpion]

I agree with Ortt in many respects. Down here in Palm Beach County, everyone thinks that we went with a strong Cat 2 with Frances and a Cat 3 with Jeanne. That is simply not the case. In Frances, it is likely most of Palm Beach County got Cat 1 conditions, extreme Northern PB likely got weak Cat 2. In Jeanne, Northern PB likely got strong Cat 2 winds and the rest Cat 1 or TS winds. Now if a real Cat 3 comes in right at the center of the county, and the complacency of the people is high, theres going to be alot of people hurt and many of the structures are going to be heavily damaged. People are like "Oh, we got hit by a strong 2 and a 3?? We dont have much damage". Obviously these people haven't been up to Hutchinson Island.

[Sanibel]

The answer to this is simple, we went through a recorded category 4 down here with Charley. We also recorded category 4 winds and a gust to 178mph.

Ivan came in with low winds recorded at 90-100mph. I saw no similar gust record there. I think the damage you are referring to is from prolonged category 2 winds being given higher recognition than they deserved. Next was surge damage increasing the visible damage estimate.

Why did we record an anemometer reading of 178mph with Charley while no such record accompanied Ivan?

[Sanibel]

What Hurricane Bill says makes sense. Ivan most likey went from category 4 down to category 2 quickly before shore, however his expanding windfield presented a secondary kind of energy dispersal in the form of an unwinding storm unloading its shoulder onto Pensacola in mid-phase of this phenomenon.

I could agree with HB...

[Scorpion]

What I don't understand is why did Ivan suddenly die? He looked outstanding just an hour before landfall. Almost looked the best he ever did. Seemed like a 150 mph storm. Then he comes in as a Cat 2? So what could have happened?

[hurricanemike]

No High Winds where recorded b/c they all FAILED.

[SouthernWx]

Why can't folks just agree that the U.S. was impacted by three MAJOR landfalling hurricanes in 2004, and another significant (near major) hurricane with Frances.
For the ONLY time in the 1846-2004 period of record, four hurricanes struck the U.S. in the same season with landfall central pressure BELOW 965 mb. We've all witnessed something in 2004 I seriously doubt any of us will ever witness again in our lifetime.