Andrew casualties follow-up

[TheShrimper]

I was in Florida City and Homestead 36 hours after the Andrew ordeal, enroute back from the Keys. I remember explicitly, stories from locals and the Miami Herald later that there was a detainee camp for illegal immigrants on Palm Ave. in Florida City well west of Krome Avenue heading towards Flamingo. It was stated that personel at the center had locked it down and left in fear of the devistation, leaving it occupied by only the incarcerated. All were killed in Andrew's wake. I am not speaking of the INS on Krome at 41, but another I did not know existed further south. This is where I believe the accounts of the many supposed deaths occured along with the sightings of reefers drivig away. Does anyone have recollection of the above mentioned, mainly the locals on the board and the learned such as Derek, Mike Watkins, Derecho ect ? If they could pull this type of silencing off 12 years ago, I would not doubt it could happen again. It is such the case many times in Haiti, where the government cares little about the impoverished and to not warn the people is thier way of cleansing. Not that there would be anyplace to go that would be safe because I realize the living conditions and deforesting of the area and complications that arise because of it, but to me they would just rather see these populations disappear. In light of recent happenings even here, I really would not dismiss the wildest of exaggerations. The Shrimper.

[Wnghs2007]

I was in Florida City and Homestead 36 hours after the Andrew ordeal, enroute back from the Keys. I remember explicitly, stories from locals and the Miami Herald later that there was a detainee camp for illegal immigrants on Palm Ave. in Florida City well west of Krome Avenue heading towards Flamingo. It was stated that personel at the center had locked it down and left in fear of the devistation, leaving it occupied by only the incarcerated. All were killed in Andrew's wake. I am not speaking of the INS on Krome at 41, but another I did not know existed further south. This is where I believe the accounts of the many supposed deaths occured along with the sightings of reefers drivig away. Does anyone have recollection of the above mentioned, mainly the locals on the board and the learned such as Derek, Mike Watkins, Derecho ect ? If they could pull this type of silencing off 12 years ago, I would not doubt it could happen again. It is such the case many times in Haiti, where the government cares little about the impoverished and to not warn the people is thier way of cleansing. Not that there would be anyplace to go that would be safe because I realize the living conditions and deforesting of the area and complications that arise because of it, but to me they would just rather see these populations disappear. In light of recent happenings even here, I really would not dismiss the wildest of exaggerations. The Shrimper.

thanks for the information.

[Derek Ortt]

I was not here for Andrew, so I cannot comment on this type of information.

However, I did hear right after Charley that a person is only counted as dead once they have been identified and their families have been notified. If this is the case, this may explain some of the descrepencies between the death toll figures as some may not ever be identified

[Wnghs2007]

I was not here for Andrew, so I cannot comment on this type of information.

However, I did hear right after Charley that a person is only counted as dead once they have been identified and their families have been notified. If this is the case, this may explain some of the descrepencies between the death toll figures as some may not ever be identified

Hmmm. Interesting Derek

[BocaGirl]

You know, for years stories have popped up from time to time about deaths and body bags after Hurricane Andrew and many of these stories seem believable. I performed relief work in Cutler Ridge after that storm and yes, it did seem hard to believe that the death count was so low.

Yet, with all news channels looking for stories, it would be really hard to keep this hushed up if the stories about dead migrant workers and trucks full of chilled bodies were true. In the years following Andrew, someone would have talked. Some station or news service would have paid big bucks to scoop the story if there was even a shred of evidence.

The good folks who work in Public Service aren't in the business of hiding the truth. I know this because I work closely with the Fire Department. So I truly believe that the stories about cover ups and hush ups about the number of dead in Andrew are myths. The number of dead reported is the real number.

Ask anyone who works in the Fire Service or Police Department about it. There would have been, and still would be, no percentage to covering up the truth.

BocaGirl
Barbara

[Wnghs2007]

You know, for years stories have popped up from time to time about deaths and body bags after Hurricane Andrew and many of these stories seem believable. I performed relief work in Cutler Ridge after that storm and yes, it did seem hard to believe that the death count was so low.

Yet, with all news channels looking for stories, it would be really hard to keep this hushed up if the stories about dead migrant workers and trucks full of chilled bodies were true. In the years following Andrew, someone would have talked. Some station or news service would have paid big bucks to scoop the story if there was even a shred of evidence.

The good folks who work in Public Service aren't in the business of hiding the truth. I know this because I work closely with the Fire Department. So I truly believe that the stories about cover ups and hush ups about the number of dead in Andrew are myths. The number of dead reported is the real number.

Ask anyone who works in the Fire Service or Police Department about it. There would have been, and still would be, no percentage to covering up the truth.

BocaGirl
Barbara

Thanks for the good post.

[Derecho]

Does anyone have recollection of the above mentioned, mainly the locals on the board and the learned such as Derek, Mike Watkins, Derecho ect ? If they could pull this type of silencing off 12 years ago, I would not doubt it could happen again.

I'm the ultimate skeptic of course, so I'm quite dubious of all of the "hidden deaths" (remember, a casualty is not a death) reports.

The basic problem is people don't understand how much completely inaccurate info can be spread around in a breaking situation WITHOUT anyone maliciously lying. People can mean well and information simply being passed through as few as 1-2 people and repeated can get totally butchered, invented, etc.

[HurricaneBill]

Does anyone have recollection of the above mentioned, mainly the locals on the board and the learned such as Derek, Mike Watkins, Derecho ect ? If they could pull this type of silencing off 12 years ago, I would not doubt it could happen again.

I'm the ultimate skeptic of course, so I'm quite dubious of all of the "hidden deaths" (remember, a casualty is not a death) reports.

The basic problem is people don't understand how much completely inaccurate info can be spread around in a breaking situation WITHOUT anyone maliciously lying. People can mean well and information simply being passed through as few as 1-2 people and repeated can get totally butchered, invented, etc.

I know firsthand about that. Halloween 1994 in western Massachusetts. The Latin Kings scare. A rumor spread like wildfire through my junior high school and other schools across the region that Latin Kings gang members were gonna drive around gunning down trick-or-treaters in a big organized massacre.

Looking back, it sounds kind of outrageous. However, at the time, it sounded frightening. Many towns ended up cancelling Halloween while others had extra police out on the streets. In my town, people, including me and my siblings, still went out trick or treating. However, we were very wary of any cars driving by. It was eerie.

Sure enough, nothing happened. It had all been a hoax. But it just goes to show how out of control rumors can get.

[caribepr]

Having worked with migrants and nurses in the emergency stations after Andrew, I do believe there were more deaths than reported, though I'm sure rumor makes those numbers too large. I talked to migrants (one woman in particular, who spoke excellent English and who took me around to speak to many families there) who lost family members, listened to their cries under collapsed trailers - and who were told it was just the sound of animals. The migrants were some of the first to get housing again...exactly the trailers that were *banned* - by the govt. - and sent down by the same govt.
I think people HAVE talked. We're obviously STILL talking about it. It's just never been official, and it never will be...we're talking about an illegal group of people here, used (and I do mean used) by the corporations that aren't supposed to employ them. Why would they admit any of this officially?

[WeatherNole]

The problem is that for every story which sounds like there could be some shred of truth to it, there is a nutjob story like this one:

http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/hurricane.html

Prepare yourself.

The wackos do more harm than good, as the truth probably lies somewhere between the reported story and the nutjob story (but most likely skewed heavily toward the media reports). Plus - don't you think that the media in South Florida would have heard SOMETHING about all those "extra deaths". A reporter lives to break a story like that. There is NO way that I believe in the big government coverup conspiracy.

Mike

--

[Agua]

The problem is that for every story which sounds like there could be some shred of truth to it, there is a nutjob story like this one:

http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/hurricane.html

Prepare yourself.

The wackos do more harm than good, as the truth probably lies somewhere between the reported story and the nutjob story (but most likely skewed heavily toward the media reports). Plus - don't you think that the media in South Florida would have heard SOMETHING about all those "extra deaths". A reporter lives to break a story like that. There is NO way that I believe in the big government coverup conspiracy.

Mike

--

HOOOOOooooWEEeeeeeee..... I listened to a radio interview with the author of the article you link last night. What a WHACK!

Just a few of the gems she mentioned on the interview:

Her comments to "authorities" (a word she threw around with wild abandon") in Turkey caused the NHC to classify Andrew as a Cat 5 after the reassessment project.

The motivation for the coverup was the fact that the world headquarters for Burger King was in Dade County and a local news spot stated that Burger King was providing free food for Andrew victims (?!?!?? ... "Someone got a heft bundle from that, didn't they", were her words. ??!?!???)

Because military personnel cordoned off areas, they were hiding bodies.

Americans are brainwashed and no person in their "right mind" would
allow a government representative to prevent them from going into a cordoned neighborhood if there were friends or family that lived in that neighborhood.

350 mph winds (yup, that's what she said), moved a 400 foot cooling tower for some nuclear facility 8 feet ...
[she was asked if there had been testing for radioactive exposure and her response was, I have three kinds of cancer (yup! that proves it!)]

It went on, and on. I couldn't believe the stuff this woman was saying.

[GrimReaper]

Aqua, I am sure you are refering to the article by KT....I have spoken with her personally, and I was there too. I can personally vouch for some of the observations made. I was on the property directly next to the the Burger King Headquarters on a road called Old Cutler Ridge Road. I witnessed National Guardsmen shoot looters, and I also saw some kind of staging area with refridgerated trailers full of body bags. There was absolutely NO doubt of what I was seeing. I can also vouch for the fact, that for the first 24 hours any law enforcement were ordered to shoot and kill any animal they came across. We lost one horse to that order. Aqua, if you or anybody else has any other questions about this event, or some of the other things I witnessed, I will talk about it via email only. I never believed ALL of the "conspiracy theories" published either, but there was alot of things that happened after Andrew that WERE purposely not made public knowledge.
Grim
Ann-Marie Semmig

[Agua]

I don't doubt that there were more deaths than whatever the official tally is. As I understand it, which could be wrong, a person is listed as "missing" unless a body has been positively identified. That could account for seeming disparities. I personally find it almost impossible to believe that only 20+ people were killed in Charley, but I don't know how many people are simply among the missing that will likely never be accounted for.

However, my point was less with the numbers the woman threw out, though those numbers (10,000 minimum?) by themselves look nearly preposterous on their face, as much as with the many crazy things the woman said, a few of which are listed in my immediately preceding post.

The question I can't get past is what in the world would be the motivation for such a coverup? Obviously, a free spot on the local news for Burger King, as claimed by the woman, misses the mark, entirely.

[Derek Ortt]

I believe that is also correct regarding the fact that if a body cannot be positively identified, he or she is not added to the death toll. I do not believe that there were thousands killed in Andrew; however, there may have been a hundred or so more killed than reported. This is plausable as many may have been obliterated by flying debris in the cat 4/5 winds. Something similar may have occurred in Charley, which would tend to confirm the initial reports of a death toll in the 50-60 range.

As for Haiti, there is something interesting there. The large death tolls come in the weaker storms, like Jeanne and Gordon, while the major hurricanes such as Emily, David, and Georges kill relatively few people. It seems as if the Hatians do not take the weaker storms seriously, which is a big mistake due to the severe flooding and mudslides that occur. The rain is about the same in a weaker and a stronger storm; thus, by not taking them seriously, they are placing themselves in needless danger

[flashflood]

I went through Andrew, and find it hard to believe that there was a cover up of any significant magnitude. The same day Andrew went through, I noticed that there were a few news helicopters already flying around. The next day , there were even more news helicopters, including news trucks, news paper and TV reporters all over south Dade county including Florida City and points well west of Krome. I find it hard to believe that there was a cover up with the rather large amount of news reporters, volunteers and concerned citizens everywhere. There were even reports concerning the evacuation of migrants on the news before Andrew hit.

I have a friend who evacuated and stayed at my house because he lived in a trailer park. There were a few migrants living there that woked on the farm near the park. The police and county officials did a great job in evacuating the Trailer Parks in the area and getting the people to shelters before Andrew hit. After Andrew, my friends trailer park was totally devestated and ALL of the trailers were blown to pieces, some even gone without a trace, except for one lone brown trailer home on the edge. When we finally got to the park, that morning after Andrew has passed, the officials were still searching for survivors. We could not drive into the park as the entrance was blocked by debris, so we had to walk through it to see if he could find any of his stuff. Duing that time, I was sick to my stomach because of the incredible and overwhelming devestation that made me believe that we were going to see quite a few dead bodies lying around, but fortunately it turned out not to be the case. I did find out weeks later that a couple of people did perrish in that park, but if that's the case in the other parks, which I strongly believe, then there is probably not a massive cover up of casualties as some people may think.