Arctic Outbreak delay?

Winter Weather Discussion

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WXextreme
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#61 Postby WXextreme » Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:48 am

vbhoutex wrote:
Air Force Met wrote: Forecasting arctic air is very difficult. To see this...all one has to do is go back the last week and look at the flip-flops in the various model runs. Heck...just look at the GFS. It flips daily. Monday it was bearish on the arctic air...then yesterday...bamm...straight south...now...it's back to bearish. The ETA seems to want it to take the plunge....the Euro doesn't know what to do with it...so it moves it east (arctic air doesn't move east)...the UKMET brings it SE...they are all over the place.

So...given the model inconsistancies on this situation...that is why I am sticking with the shot south based on climo (what similiar upper air patterns have brought in the past with similiar airmasses)...because that is really all I can do. The models are worthless because they are so inconsistant from run to run and model to model.

As far as a Texas arctic shot goes...I may well end up eating it on this one...but the first rule of forecasting is 1) When you can't get a good answer from the data you are looking at....then what does climo say? Well...climo says shallow arctic air comes south and that models have a hard time with it.

Of course...given the flip-flops with all the models...one of these model runs has been right (before it became wrong again)...the question is...which one was it ;-)


This air is already starting south through Montana. I am not anywhere near a pro, but I've watched Texas weather for 30+ yrs and weather in general for about 45 yrs. I highlighted a few things in AFM's discussion, because imo they say it like it is. This is Artic/Siberian cold and only once in a great while will it not move South. I think it will do so this time and I think it is going to surprise some of our forecasters here in TX. Plenty of Snowpack and more building in front of it, so little if any modification till it gets to the South plains, imo. I think in about 36-48 hours we will see some forecasters scrambling to catch up temps wise and I don't mean rising. P-type, early next week, if and where it happens, as usual, is going to be touch and go, if it even happens, at least here in SE TX.


Are you in denial?
Even AFM isn't sure that the real cold will make it all the way down to Houston and New Orleans.
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#62 Postby vbhoutex » Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:54 am

WXextreme wrote:
vbhoutex wrote:
Air Force Met wrote: Forecasting arctic air is very difficult. To see this...all one has to do is go back the last week and look at the flip-flops in the various model runs. Heck...just look at the GFS. It flips daily. Monday it was bearish on the arctic air...then yesterday...bamm...straight south...now...it's back to bearish. The ETA seems to want it to take the plunge....the Euro doesn't know what to do with it...so it moves it east (arctic air doesn't move east)...the UKMET brings it SE...they are all over the place.

So...given the model inconsistancies on this situation...that is why I am sticking with the shot south based on climo (what similiar upper air patterns have brought in the past with similiar airmasses)...because that is really all I can do. The models are worthless because they are so inconsistant from run to run and model to model.

As far as a Texas arctic shot goes...I may well end up eating it on this one...but the first rule of forecasting is 1) When you can't get a good answer from the data you are looking at....then what does climo say? Well...climo says shallow arctic air comes south and that models have a hard time with it.

Of course...given the flip-flops with all the models...one of these model runs has been right (before it became wrong again)...the question is...which one was it ;-)


This air is already starting south through Montana. I am not anywhere near a pro, but I've watched Texas weather for 30+ yrs and weather in general for about 45 yrs. I highlighted a few things in AFM's discussion, because imo they say it like it is. This is Artic/Siberian cold and only once in a great while will it not move South. I think it will do so this time and I think it is going to surprise some of our forecasters here in TX. Plenty of Snowpack and more building in front of it, so little if any modification till it gets to the South plains, imo. I think in about 36-48 hours we will see some forecasters scrambling to catch up temps wise and I don't mean rising. P-type, early next week, if and where it happens, as usual, is going to be touch and go, if it even happens, at least here in SE TX.


Are you in denial?
Even AFM isn't sure that the real cold will make it all the way down to Houston and New Orleans.


No I am not in denial. I am stating my opinion based on what I have seen in the models and others discussions and my weather experience over the years. Of course, I guess some of the answer depends on what you consider Arctic air. Any competent forecaster, such as AFM, is going to state it as he sees it. I know he said he wasn't sure it would make it, but see what I said just above.
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#63 Postby jeff » Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:28 am

Probably will not see bone cold (lows in the low to mid 20's). Could see upper 20's and low 30's for lows this weekend. As AFM described increasing clouds could temper the event compared to if it were clear. There is still much uncertainity about how much cold air comes south. Gut feeling is that NWS and guidance is too warm and that this air mass due to its density will make it here in some form or another.
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How right you are!

#64 Postby Cat5survivor » Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:10 pm

Air Force Met wrote:
frankthetank wrote:Anchorage, AK...while sitting in the freezer today, is "forecasted" to warm into the 30's by Saturday...

Looking @ the forecast locally now, it looks like the lows projected a day or 2 ago will be a little cold...still looking @ some pretty chilly air here in S Wi....

transient? I think so...


ANd when you see it get warm in AK...you know the Arctic air is coming south.
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#65 Postby Burn1 » Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:38 pm

Burn1 wrote:I still do not see where you are coming up with this huge blast of cold
air for SE Texas....

May see a day or two next week of just below normal temps, but then
normal temps for the remainder of the month.....

This message is just verifying that any of the colder than normal stuff
will be shifting the east to northeast
[/quote]


I guess I was lucky on this one ay? Everytime I posted on this thread I got mugged.....It was only an amateur opinion on what I was looking at....

I respect the prof mets forecasts on this site highly, however don't under estimate the amateur forecaster.....We are probably right(lucky) 1 out of 10 times....(lol)
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#66 Postby Portastorm » Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:42 pm

Burn1 wrote:
Burn1 wrote:I still do not see where you are coming up with this huge blast of cold
air for SE Texas....

May see a day or two next week of just below normal temps, but then
normal temps for the remainder of the month.....

This message is just verifying that any of the colder than normal stuff
will be shifting the east to northeast



I guess I was lucky on this one ay? Everytime I posted on this thread I got mugged.....It was only an amateur opinion on what I was looking at....

I respect the prof mets forecasts on this site highly, however don't under estimate the amateur forecaster.....We are probably right(lucky) 1 out of 10 times....(lol)[/quote]

What are you talking about? Nothing has happened yet. We still have two distinct schools of thought about this weekend's weather in the southern Plains. As far as I know, the weekend's not here nor is its weather!

I wouldn't put that crown on your head just yet!
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#67 Postby Burn1 » Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:45 pm

I do not disagree with you.....However it isn't looking real positive at
the moment for the cold event to occur
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#68 Postby Portastorm » Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:48 pm

Burn1 wrote:I do not disagree with you.....However it isn't looking real positive at
the moment for the cold event to occur


Well I kinda think you did disagree as you seemed to imply in your previous posting that you were right about this weekend's weather.

I'm also sorry you feel like you got mugged. I found the whole discussion to be a "vigorous debate." And you know what Burn1, if you're right, I'll try to be the first to post something on Monday saying you were right.

But I still think we'll see 15-20 degrees below seasonal norms here in central Texas before the weekend is over.
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#69 Postby Burn1 » Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:48 pm

Hey, maybe it will snow here like 77'.....I am actually a big fan of
weather phenomena....

ie: The accumulation of the SE Texas XMAS snow was amazing and historic....

How about the S. Atlantic Hurricane that hit Brazil last year.....There mets won't admit it....

Also, did you know it actually snows in the Dominican Republic....Actually
they have a 10,000 foot peak (Pico Duarte). At the Summit during the
winter they will have below freezing temps along with snow, mainly flurries however....

You know, junk weather stuff like this
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#70 Postby JenyEliza » Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:49 pm

Burn1 wrote:Hey, maybe it will snow here like 77'.....I am actually a big fan of
weather phenomena....

ie: The accumulation of the SE Texas XMAS snow was amazing and historic....

How about the S. Atlantic Hurricane that hit Brazil last year.....There mets won't admit it....

Also, did you know it actually snows in the Dominican Republic....Actually
they have a 10,000 foot peak (Pico Duarte). At the Summit during the
winter they will have below freezing temps along with snow, mainly flurries however....

You know, junk weather stuff like this


It also (on occasion) snows in the mountains of HAWAII!! :eek:
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#71 Postby Burn1 » Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:04 pm

sure does.....enough to ski on, however they don't rent ski's (lol)
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